Suggestion for New Forum Rule

[JedTech]

Too often I am seeing forum members being aggressed by veteran forum members for starting a discussion which the veteran members consider as "already discussed". This behavior makes it difficult for us to have a friendly community that promotes healthy discussion about a game that we all love. New players are hesitant to post and discuss for fear of players who will come and troll them because they have already "beat the dead horse".

Do we need a rule stop this kind of behavior? Perhaps this:
Ridiculing or otherwise criticizing forum members for discussing something which has already been discussed is not allowed.
 

Instead our omni-present forum members should consider the following alternatives:

• Don't read or post in the thread (for real, you don't have to beat the horse if you don't want to)
• Post links to other useful forum pages (you might just get a like and/or make a friend)
• Share your thoughts again (a short personal thought on "if mechjeb is cheating" may help a new player enjoy their membership in the community (even if you have weighed in on the matter before.))

Edited January 8, 2016 by JedTech

[smjjames]

Sounds more like something that should be a guideline rather than a rule.

[DuoDex]

While criticism or ridicule of other users is of course highly discouraged on the forums, the WNTS list is in place for a reason - to prevent SD & D from being flooded by similar suggestions. Obviously, any harassment or trolling due to an honest mistake on the part of the original poster should be immediately reported, but a gentle reminder that something is on the WNTS list would rarely go amiss as long as it contained a link to another thread where similar discussion is taking place.

[smjjames]

3 hours ago, DuoDex said:

While criticism or ridicule of other users is of course highly discouraged on the forums, the WNTS list is in place for a reason - to prevent SD & D from being flooded by similar suggestions. Obviously, any harassment or trolling due to an honest mistake on the part of the original poster should be immediately reported, but a gentle reminder that something is on the WNTS list would rarely go amiss as long as it contained a link to another thread where similar discussion is taking place.

Constructive/helpful criticism is fine of course, as long as it isn't rude obviously.

[KasperVld]

A blanket ban on criticism would be a very sad thing to implement. Harassment such as insults is already against the community rules so if you see it happen, please do report the posts.

[JedTech]

42 minutes ago, KasperVld said:

A blanket ban on criticism would be a very sad thing to implement. Harassment such as insults is already against the community rules so if you see it happen, please do report the posts.

Ban on criticism in general would be sad indeed. However I speak of a very specific criticism that is extremely derailing to the conversation that original posters are trying to have.

[Kerbart]

Another way of interpreting a “dead horse” question is that the poster couldn't be bothered by doing even the most minimal amount of research and expects the community to cater to them, and spend time and effort to reward their laziness.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle but that's where the aggression is coming from.

Should the general subforum be populated with 150 is mechjeb cheating posts? Should the support forum be filled with a dozen I've upgraded finally to 1.0.x and suddenly my rocket flips over when I do my gravity turn at 10k? questions?

While the correct way would likely be Shrug and ignore, it's not outlandish to see a self-correction mechanism in place either.

[Stone Blue]

I think this "rule" is unecessary... Just what we need in life...MOAR RULES.... NOT!

There are already procedures for addressing harrassment, name-calling, etc, in place... I dont see the need for micro-managing this sort of thing...

Also, on the OTHER hand, instead of making a rule or ban, tightening down on what could be construed as criticism or harrassment, by one group ("veteran" forum members), by some one who is just easily butt hurt, how about making an absolute rule (as I have actually, really, seen other forums implement), where new forum members are REQUIRED to wait a certain period of time, before they are even allowed to post or reply to topics...Also, maybe a rule that new members cannot post until they have done a certain number of searches using the forum search engine... That would show those new members that they cant just come in here and ask dumb questions all the time...

Now, I'm sure you are thinking, "yeah, OK...THATS pretty offensive and discriminitory... Well, I feel the rule you suggest would ALSO be offensive and dicriminatory...

Your concerns are legitimate, and DO need to be addressed when things get out of line... But I think common sense, and the existing forum rules and guidelines are sufficient to address the issue...

New members also need to realise there is a forum search function, as well as using Google, and should be used a bit before posting....

Edited January 6, 2016 by Stone Blue

[smjjames]

Except that the forum search function is crap

[Stone Blue]

30 minutes ago, smjjames said:

Except that the forum search function is crap

Thats why I mentioned Google... You can specifically search JUST the Kerbal forums, by adding this into the search field with your search term:

site:forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com

I mentioned the forum search, cuz someday it MIGHT actually get fixed...lol

Either way, my point was, new members also need to actually do some footwork and do some actual SEARCHING (HOWEVER they do it), before posting...

Edited January 7, 2016 by Stone Blue

[smjjames]

Just now, Stone Blue said:

Thats why I mentioned Google... You can specifically search JUST the forums, by adding this into the search field with your search term:

site:http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com

I mentioned the forum search, cuz someday it MIGHT actually get fixed...lol

Either way, my point was, new members also need to actually do some footwork and do some actual SEARCHING (HOWEVER they do it), before posting...

I know how to do the search with google, but I'd like to be able to properly search within a section, and google can't seem to do that.

[WinkAllKerb'']

i got a better one @Jed

- use the search fonction
- necroing and necroaming is forbidden

do i miss something here, or i really don't get it on the absurdity level reached somehow ... not sure it's even amusing when you think about it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Edited January 10, 2016 by WinkAllKerb''

[Norpo]

On 1/6/2016 at 6:51 PM, Kerbart said:

Another way of interpreting a “dead horse” question is that the poster couldn't be bothered by doing even the most minimal amount of research and expects the community to cater to them, and spend time and effort to reward their laziness.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle but that's where the aggression is coming from.

Should the general subforum be populated with 150 is mechjeb cheating posts? Should the support forum be filled with a dozen I've upgraded finally to 1.0.x and suddenly my rocket flips over when I do my gravity turn at 10k? questions?

While the correct way would likely be Shrug and ignore, it's not outlandish to see a self-correction mechanism in place either.

Seconded: While opening up discussion on a topic that was last discussed once 4 years ago, when trees were still a dream and The Mun was the only other place to go to is definitely okay; Duplicate topics where the other topic is still on the front page, and topics that show a severe lack of research before even starting the topic (is mechjeb cheating, gravity turn at 10k fails, how do I get to The Mun [with no other details added in the body other than "plz help" or "like the title says"]) are just plain annoying; A quick Google search would find the answers they need; because those horses aren't just dead; their rotting carcasses has been hauled to a garbage dump and decomposed.

Not to mention the fact that the KSP forums aren't the only source of help, there's the Steam community, there's the subreddit (and the subreddit devoted to questions from new players, /r/KerbalAcademy), there's tutorials on the wiki, there's Youtube videos, etc. Even if the answers aren't in the forums, they're probably somewhere.

As a rule of thumb; before starting the topic, Google the topic name, first. If you can't find your answer; then start a topic. If a topic is an obvious duplicate (i.e the main topic is on the front page), then it should be reported as such to the moderators (who can then probably merge the two threads)

On the topic of forum searches, I haven't had any troubles using the advanced search; and the simple search, if you let the page load for 10 seconds or so works fine; at least from my experience.

On another note; Can you (or someone else) link to any examples of these "forum members being aggressed by veteran forum members for starting a discussion which the veteran members consider as 'already discussed' "? It would help to know exactly what exactly we're discussing about; here.  

Also helpfully, @Tex_NL made a list of Frequently Asked Questions here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/127403-frequent-asked-questions/#comment-2315497