Devnote Tuesday: Where did we leave the bugspray?

[katateochi]

Great going with the re-work and fixes guys, really looking forward to seeing how that impacts of the performance issues. Good job on the tutorials too, "lacking documentation" is a label KSP needs to shed!

 

1 hour ago, SQUAD said:

Work on our upcoming console releases has continued strongly as well, and Dan (danRosas) has been busy making graphics for an achievement system. We’re looking into the possibility of porting that over to the current platforms as well. As you might know the game already tracks your achievements internally and uses this data to do things such as selecting new contracts for you. Let us know what you think.

When I hear "achievement system" I think of a steam like achievement system and I find I've picked up a pitch fork. I would absolutely hate (yes strong word, but I mean it) an achievement system if it was in any way like steam's (ie popping up and breaking immersion or ruining a cinematic shot you've been trying to take).  

But, setting my pitch fork down for a mo, if "achievement system" just means having an interface (say in the astronaut complex) where we could look at each Kerbal and see what they have achieved and what the program has achieved overall that would be quite nice (I might look at it once or twice).   

So long as the tracking of achievements is something that could be disabled or doesn't popup a notification while in flight (unless it's as subtle as a completed contract notification) then I don't really mind, but it's not something that would ever really interest me. 

*slightly ranty
Why is an achievements system being added at all?  I remember hearing the dev's saying that steam achievements would not be added, it's on the not-planned list here
Yes I am probably jumping the gun in assuming that any achievement system will end up being a steam achievement system; but as soon as it's visible to players, people will start asking; why don't you just link it to steam?  And then that will seem like a simple and logical move...so, are steam achievements back on the menu now?

This makes me twitch a little (and I'm sorry if I sound annoyed) because of something which was said regarding a certain bug; that time was limited and there were other fixes/new features which would be more meaningful to focus on. So....is this one of those more meaningful features? more meaningful than addressing a foundation level issue?

Edited January 13, 2016 by katateochi

[JedTech]

Will there be a 32-bit windows edition of 1.1?
I am hoping to hear "no" as the answer, so that all of your support and bug fixing will be concentrated on an awesome 64-bit release.

(and so that Mod makers can more concentrate on supporting 1 edition)

Edited January 13, 2016 by JedTech

[GeneCash]

I hope achievements are "sane" ones, not like Minecraft's "YOU OPENED YOUR INVENTORY!" or lots of game's "YOU DID [MEANINGLESS ACTIVITY] OVER 100 TIMES!"

I'm sure a lot of them will be "You [orbited | landed on | impacted] [celestial body]!" and the like.

So will these be global achievements then, and not per-game like the current "world records"? (I hope so! That Minecraft inventory "achievment" bugs the living sh*t out of me every time I start a new game and see it yet again)

How will they differ from the "world records"? Will they be a superset?

Any chance of a couple words describing how it's all expected to work?

[Wiseman]

2 hours ago, NathanKell said:

The ascent path involves a single long burn to establish an ~80km apoapsis, and then a ~130m/s burn at apoapsis to circularize.

The best part is you can use SAS's "point at target" mode to automatically fly the ascent--so you can watch the computer do it, then restart the tutorial and try it yourself.

 

Cheers to @sarbian who let me borrow some targeting code he uses for setting an elevation/azimuth target on the navball.

Is that something that will be available in-game, or are you just talking about a scripted tutorial event?

[Norpo]

47 minutes ago, katateochi said:

Why is an achievements system being added at all?  I remember hearing the dev's saying that steam achievements would not be added, it's on the not-planned list here
Yes I am probably jumping the gun in assuming that any achievement system will end up being a steam achievement system; but as soon as it's visible to players, people will start asking; why don't you just link it to steam?  And then that will seem like a simple and logical move.so, are steam achievements back on the menu now?

I think that it's because it's being ported to consoles (it was mentioned next to "Work on our upcoming console releases has continued strongly as well", which suggests the two are related). Achievements are strongly the norm for console games (although many games achievements feel more like an afterthought). Still, if achievements are being added to consoles, I really wouldn't mind them being ported to the PC versions. A good set of achievements can really help a game, in my opinion, though mostly as something to avoid drowning in the massive sandbox of KSP; achievements can serve as a guide, and occasionally as a reminder in the early stages that "you're progressing!"

[CrashTestDanny]

I encountered this on my first programming job in 1980, programming basic on a TRS-80 CP/M machine.  Have never seen a copyright, and despite the dated references to slide-rules and punch cards (which were even old in 1980), it is still timeless.  

 

“But you're out of your mind,”
They said with a shrug.
“The customer's happy;
What's one little bug?”

But he was determined.
The others went home.
He spread out the program,
Deserted, alone.

The cleaning men came,
The whole room was cluttered
With memory-dumps, punch cards.
“I'm close,” he muttered.

The mumbling got louder,
Simple deduction,
“I've got it, it's right,
Just change one instruction.”

It still wasn't perfect,
As year followed year,
And strangers would comment,
“Is that guy still here?”

He died at the console,
Of hunger and thirst.
Next day he was buried,
Face down, nine-edge first.

And the last bug in sight,
An ant passing by,
Saluted his tombstone,
And whispered, “Nice try.”

 

Danny

[Fubarbrickdust]

Not really a comment of any relevence - however...

I just wanted to say that KSP is a totally awesome game!!! And the community (devs included) that surrounds it mirror that awesomness

Even though I've not played for about 6 weeks now **not the games fault...I just had a bit of KSP burnout from playing it WAY TOO MUCH** I still check back here every week to read the dev notes and comments - and every week I always leave the page feeling super hyped for 1.1 and generally happy all round.

I'm so gonna be burning myself out again when it drops, no question...and y'know what, when it drops I'm gonna be playing that mofo STOCK!!! (...as in the flavour, vanilla.) HELL YEAH!

Edited January 13, 2016 by Fubarbrickdust

[WildBill]

How about Kerbonauts named Major Tom, Ziggy Stardust, or something along those lines? That would be kind of cool....

[Racescort666]

1 hour ago, hoojiwana said:

<snip>

KSP is not one of those games... <snip>

It's not rocket science... wait... 

[Runescope]

An achievement system? Don't look any further than the Final Frontier mod.  Seriously, it's robust and even integrates with other mods. One of the MANY mods I think should be stock.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Runescope
Stupid typo

[klgraham1013]

3 hours ago, SQUAD said:

yes, we have 64 bit builds for Windows as well, and they’re rock steady so far.

...and, thus, a bright light shown down through the heavens  The Kraken, in all his horror and glory, peered over his domain, and with one mighty tentacle, blessed all of Kerbal-kind. 

Edited January 13, 2016 by klgraham1013

[sibrit]

Since we already have the craft problem list (The one that tells you that an engine is decoupled before it is used, or you have landing gear but no ladder, etc.), why not show this list when launching a craft that has unresolved issues with options to return to the VAB/SPH to fix it, continue as is, or turn off the warning completely?

Heck, even I sometimes hit space to launch and the parachutes open... 

[mcirish3]

4 hours ago, SQUAD said:

Nathanael (Nathankell) and Dave (TriggerAu) have been working hard on the tutorials, which are really beginning to come together now.

@NathanKell and @TriggerAu  Hmm one thing I really wish was available as either a ingame aspect of the tutorial or as a MOD was a  preschool child friendly tutorial.  And befor you say this game is too hard for them I think you are wrong.  If my 4 and 6 year old children can play the PC verion of mincraft I think they could handle KSP just fine if only they had an undertanding of things given to them in an wordless and interactive way (I think this would help some older children as well and even some adults)  THink www.code.org Lession 1  as what a child freindly tutorial would look like.  FYI my 4 and 6 year olds worked together to compleated nearly all of lesson 1 without any help from me and neither of them can read as of yet.  ( though my six year old is learning to read in kindergarten)

[Dr_Turkey]

4 hours ago, Glaran K'erman said:

@KasperVld I will now be seriously disappointed if we don't have DevPoem Sunday.

 

 

I agree! Don't dissapoint me Kasper...*sharpens trident*

 

3 hours ago, GeneCash said:

I hope achievements are "sane" ones, not like Minecraft's "YOU OPENED YOUR INVENTORY!" or lots of game's "YOU DID [MEANINGLESS ACTIVITY] OVER 100 TIMES!"

I'm sure a lot of them will be "You [orbited | landed on | impacted] [celestial body]!" and the like.

So will these be global achievements then, and not per-game like the current "world records"? (I hope so! That Minecraft inventory "achievment" bugs the living sh*t out of me every time I start a new game and see it yet again)

How will they differ from the "world records"? Will they be a superset?

Any chance of a couple words describing how it's all expected to work?

 

Well made.

 

2 hours ago, Norpo said:

I think that it's because it's being ported to consoles (it was mentioned next to "Work on our upcoming console releases has continued strongly as well", which suggests the two are related). Achievements are strongly the norm for console games (although many games achievements feel more like an afterthought). Still, if achievements are being added to consoles, I really wouldn't mind them being ported to the PC versions. A good set of achievements can really help a game, in my opinion, though mostly as something to avoid drowning in the massive sandbox of KSP; achievements can serve as a guide, and occasionally as a reminder in the early stages that "you're progressing!"

 

Achievements are not strongly the norm, they are a part of the certification process, as in if you don't have them you cannot sell on their digital storefronts. Also, it gave Dan an excuse to come up with some pretty nice and new 4k assets

 

[Tourist]

Based on the unofficial theme of today's Devnotes, I will be disappointed if there is not "haiku" achievement.  

[Norcalplanner]

There are already achievements in the game - it's just that they're called "completing a world first contract" and they pop up in the special blue notification window.  All you need to do is somehow have a way to go into a menu, or ideally, another building at the VAB, to look at all the "firsts" that have been completed in that save.

Final Frontier is nice, but it slows things down a bit too much for my taste.  If you can put something like that in with less overhead, I'd be all for it.

[CatastrophicFailure]

8 hours ago, SQUAD said:

The most notable bug this week was no doubt a strange graphics corruption that was eventually tracked to the Kerbal portraits becoming the default texture. This meant Jeb could be seen in all of the UI, and  like a magic eye picture, we needed to squint to see it.

Asking the important question here, why do we not have screenshots of this epic bug???

[fireblade274]

Wow this all sounds amazing. With out digressing so much, I'm soooooo ready for multicore support 64bit support. There will be so much room for activities!

[Streetwind]

7 hours ago, hoojiwana said:

You can't really do much for people that refuse to do tutorials when presented with them, though many modern games have gone the way of putting them in the main "campaign" or single player story or whatever and forcing people to play through them. That actually might be why people don't pick tutorials, they expect games to make them do one anyway, or that the game will be easy enough to figure out for themselves. KSP is not one of those games, so something like forced tutorials in future might be something to consider, with an option to skip it hidden somewhere for advanced players.

Maybe less "force", and more of a... gentle nudge kind of thing. Like, as long as the "Default" difficulty settings remain unchanged while starting a new game, the game displays a "Did you know KSP has in-depth tutorials for newcomers and advanced players alike?" tooltip somewhere on that screen.

...Maybe with a Kerbal parody of Clippy next to it?

[Francois424]

9 hours ago, SQUAD said:

For those of you who facing an ontological or existential crisis after reading this: yes, we have 64 bit builds for Windows as well, and they’re rock steady so far.

« I felt a disturbance in the Force, as if a 40yo man giggled in joy like a little girl for a few minutes, then everything went suddenly silent ! »

*Confounded look* ... What !?   No... nobody was watching that happening *waves hand*

Edited January 13, 2016 by Francois424

[Bloody_looser]

7 hours ago, katateochi said:

When I hear "achievement system" I think of a steam like achievement system and I find I've picked up a pitch fork. I would absolutely hate (yes strong word, but I mean it) an achievement system if it was in any way like steam's (ie popping up and breaking immersion or ruining a cinematic shot you've been trying to take).  

But, setting my pitch fork down for a mo, if "achievement system" just means having an interface (say in the astronaut complex) where we could look at each Kerbal and see what they have achieved and what the program has achieved overall that would be quite nice (I might look at it once or twice).   

So long as the tracking of achievements is something that could be disabled or doesn't popup a notification while in flight (unless it's as subtle as a completed contract notification) then I don't really mind, but it's not something that would ever really interest me. 

Wow, it's the funniest anti-achievement reasoning I've read in a while.

 

Achievement systems are useful in many ways.

First, one can brag to one's friends like 'Hey, bro, check out my new 'Launch a vessel' achievement, bet you won't get that evah!'

Also, achievements are essential in a situation like that:

Some 'l337 r0ck37 5c13n7157' appears, all nerdy, term-toting n' stuff, humiliating you with some nerdy words like 'apoapsis'. Without achievements you're kinda screwed, there's nothing you can do with such an intellectual. With achievement system you can be just like - 'Go get 'Land on the Mun' fist noob, and be nerdy later, lel.' Congrats, you just won an argument on the internets!

 

P.S. On a bit more serious note - you know, Steam overlay can be turned off, right?

[KerbMav]

5 hours ago, WildBill said:

How about Kerbonauts named Major Tom, Ziggy Stardust, or something along those lines? That would be kind of cool....

Adding Ziggy into the name-pool sounds appropriate, yes.

6 hours ago, Norpo said:

I think that it's because it's being ported to consoles (it was mentioned next to "Work on our upcoming console releases has continued strongly as well", which suggests the two are related). Achievements are strongly the norm for console games (although many games achievements feel more like an afterthought). Still, if achievements are being added to consoles, I really wouldn't mind them being ported to the PC versions. A good set of achievements can really help a game, in my opinion, though mostly as something to avoid drowning in the massive sandbox of KSP; achievements can serve as a guide, and occasionally as a reminder in the early stages that "you're progressing!"

It does not have to be much, syncing with Steam - and the other (console) platforms - and putting the new graphics into the already established system there. And ingame (i.e. PC version) it could be as simple as a notification like any contract and a new tab in the science or administration building.

7 minutes ago, Francois424 said:

« I felt a disturbance in the Force, as if a 40yo mans giggled in joy like a little girl for a few minutes, then went suddenly silent ! »

*Confounded look* ... What !?   No... nobody was watching that happening *waves hand*

I know there is not much love for the prequels, but in situations like these I tend to have a musical flashback to the Gungan victory parade.

[simonh]

Regarding space fever in the UK, if you get the chance check out the Royal Institute Lectures this year, broadcast by the BBC. Try iPlayer. The title is 'How to survive in space', there are three episodes and they are immense fun. They're aimed at kids, but are well worth watching even if you don't have my advantage of having 11 and 12 years old kids to watch it with you.

Simon Hibbs

Edited January 13, 2016 by simonh

[worir4]

Some one should make that haiku into a poster for your office. 

[*Aqua*]

10 hours ago, SQUAD said:

yes, we have 64 bit builds for Windows as well, and they’re rock steady so far.

HYPE! HYPE! HYPE!
I can totally see my modded KSP 1.1 robbing all of my 8 GB memory.

 

10 hours ago, SQUAD said:

In a world first we’ve likely seen the occurrence of a computer virus capable of infecting humans, as it struck both Bob (Roverdude) and Joe (Dr Turkey) and took them out of the running for a few days. Both are recovering just fine though, and hopefully they’ll be back fighting strong soon.

I hope you get well soon.