Overland Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Can we have a 3rd option? For those who live in a world as a jebidiah but long to be a valentina? or the valentinas of the world who wish to be a jeb? Or perhaps a docking port or pocket Ibeam on ones craft doesnt have any bearing on gameplay at all Edited January 21, 2016 by Overland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanamonde Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 If your comment was not mocking the thread, my comment was not aimed at you. And while threads like this have been closed in the past, it was because arguments broke out in them, or that sort of problem. The subject matter itself is not against any forum rules, so there's been no reason to close this one. Please keep it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerikBalm Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, regex said: You could, you know, participate in the community for awhile to find out. I think I've participated for a while... and until this thread I think I only knew of 1 who is the girlfriend of another... I think? Its not like gender is really relevant... why would it come up in a thread normally... its not like people make a pose like "I like to use engine XXXX and design a ship like YYYYYY for purpose ZZZZZ, and also, my gender is XX or XY... At the moment, 4 females have apparently voted in this poll, if all of posted here... I wouldn't be able to pick them out... One only because she was explicitely identified by another (Not cool? she didn't seem enthusiastic to be named), and I think another (although it wasn't explicit... but the reply of simply "yes" with a link in the sig to a woman astronaut seems to imply the poster is female). Indeed, I shouldn't be able to pick them out, because it isn't relevant on a forum for sharing ideas... and idea is an idea regardless of if its from a male or female. That said, I am interested in the demographics... I still don't know what element of our culture/biology makes males gravitate more towards "STEM" subjects, and females not so much. My girlfriend, despite being a biochemistry PhD student like myself(well, I do cell biology), prefers to play the sims and calls me geeky for playing this... just as a non-statistically relevant example Edited January 21, 2016 by KerikBalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overland Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Someone mentioned sims I know this is mostly unrelated but despite sequals of 3 and 4.. Sims 2 remains the only other game besides KSP to ever give me a sence of oneness with it.. Watching my married women couple grow old and one die before the other ranks as one of the most complete emotional rides a games ever give to me.. And a major credit to the developers.. Similar to how I felt when 4408 blew her generator turbine 145km from KSC on the elcano challenge.. That moment of silence..timeless moment where everything changed and something you nursed carefully, taken care of.. Even loved becomes no more.. Amazing stuff.. Topped only by the intoxicating highs and near-tears of joy when your baby..be she simulated person..spaceplane or rocket or land train achieves something through troubled and difficult times that could go either way The sims isnt all that different from KSP in the emotional sence.. Infact I think if you ignore the science and engineering and jump straight into being fond and proud of your craft.. The transition might be easier than you think Oh and my earlier post...serious and non troll in nature.. I do know a few women players though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody_looser Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Only two gender options are extremely lacking and offensive. It's 21st century already! Please redo the poll and add more options: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity P.S. Seriously, why should it matter? Threads like this usually get closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 A more interesting question: Is there anyone with 3 arms playing KSP. Is it cheating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisk02 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 If i am a male who identifies myself as a woman what do i do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overland Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) watch one of nassaults greatest movies... Jool Where one of the greatest female kerbal actresses was infact.. Not able to vote in this thread too And feel very happy regardless https://youtu.be/7N9KcuEEX3I Edited January 21, 2016 by Overland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerbMav Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bloody_looser said: P.S. Seriously, why should it matter? Threads like this usually get closed. For me it is always only relevant/interesting when ambiguous humor is involved (because it changes the level of laughter on my part when I know) or when it gets jokingly flirty. But generally - when it is not obvious otherwise - while online my brain tends to complement the lack of this specific information by assuming I am dealing with gendeless 14y-old minds. Sometimes this does not even change a bit should more information become available! And: I am more surprised this gameplay-irrelevant thread is still in this part of the forums than anything else? 9 hours ago, luizopiloto said: I know 4... and they stream on Twitch sometimes... Hm ... I only know one (Tanuki) of them. 1 hour ago, Fisk02 said: If i am a male who identifies myself as a woman what do i do? Don't know? Are we supposed to guess? OK: Rename the main characters to Spike, Rarity, Applejack and Octavia in every new save? 2 hours ago, Overland said: Someone mentioned sims I know this is mostly unrelated but despite sequals of 3 and 4.. Sims 2 remains the only other game besides KSP to ever give me a sence of oneness with it.. Watching my married women couple grow old and one die before the other ranks as one of the most complete emotional rides a games ever give to me.. I usually rushed to get the lifeextending potion, because I did not want anyone to die. Or I used killing roommates off as a way to accumulate more money in one household without overcrowding the place. 6 hours ago, TrooperCooper said: The real question is... is beeing woman while playing KSP considered cheating? Post of the week! Edited January 21, 2016 by KerbMav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen_Heart Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Swear we've done this thread before :/ Yes plenty of women do play KSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Blue Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) I must say, there is one circumstance where I would like to know a forum member's gender: on EVERY post of mine where I quote, repond to, or specifically refer to that person, I always have to wonder if they are male or female... Weird; creepy; stalky, you say.... Well, no... Its only to wonder if I need to use "he" or "she", rather than having to type out a whole user name, some of which, I have to pause, scroll up several posts, and try to remember odd combinations of alpha-numeric names... Generally, I admit, because I know there is such a gender gap, I just usually go with "he"... So as this poll is showing, i guess I tend to offend someone in 1 out of every 10 posts of mine...lol Also, as far as this specific poll, I dont see the problem with it the way it was posted...I mean as far as it just asks simply enough "one or the other"... If a thread like this gets locked, I can only imagine its because of the people who REPLY, by identifying specifc people without their consent, or by making, stoopid offense comments... ???.... (Granted, the OP can probably identify and deduct gender by people's votes/comments), but who is really to blame for this type of poll getting locked? Maybe you all should THINK before replying... It's a simple, general question, no commentary or specifically, "specifics" required... Edited January 21, 2016 by Stone Blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat2ch Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I think this question matters, even though the poll is missing the option "non of the above". It's a tricky thing to get such polls right and if we ignore the fact that there's much more than just male and female the poll currently says 10 % female, which is a rough estimate, but sadly a good picture of the reality. Yes there are females playing KSP, but too few. It's the same problem as in almost all technical parts of the world, there are too few women interested in them. I don't wanna go to deep here where this originates from, but we - as a community - should encourage more females to play KSP and show us what they are doing. I like to learn and I love watching others learning and every new member gives me a new perspective of how things are or can be done. Especially in KSP where we have this huge freedom of doing what we want. And since we boys tend to stick together all the time, we might miss something when there are only a few femals around playing, experimenting and making different erros than we did. Btw: I have the rule: Everyone who visits me has to play KSP. Everyone. No differences made. I hope to inspire as many people as possible this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody_looser Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 1 hour ago, KerbMav said: But generally - when it is not obvious otherwise - while online my brain tends to complement the lack of this specific information by assuming I am dealing with gendeless 14y-old minds. Sometimes this does not even change a bit should more information become available! Well, your time spent on the internet is sorta robust. Due to my online-gaming experience, I assume everyone on the internets is 8-yo and had some affairs with my mom. 1 hour ago, KerbMav said: Don't know? Are we supposed to guess? OK: Rename the main characters to Spike, Rarity, Applejack and Octavia in every new save? Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RizzoTheRat Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 7 hours ago, JJE64 said: Creeper issues aside, it is kind of an interesting question. I teach at a college, and right now there's a big push to get women into STEM. If you're a woman, and you want to be an engineer or a computer programmer, there are entire organizations that will throw bags of money at you, put you on posters and write journal articles about you. Female participation in STEM-related activities is historically low, although it is starting to improve. So from a purely statistical standpoint, individual identities notwithstanding, it would be interesting in an academic sense to know how many members of the KSP community are women, engaging in a recreational activity that is a STEM experience at its core. I don't think it has to be a comparative thing, but I would be interested to see if the participation rates are similar to what we're seeing in STEM programs in higher ed. Out of interest what is the ratio at your college and where are you? 20 years ago my Aeronautical Engineering course at a UK university was about 2% female, and that seemed fairly common across most engineering courses. I have no idea if that's improved much since. Maths seems to have a better ratio than engineering though. My wife teaches A-level (age 16-18 ish) maths and of 20ish teachers in the department only 3 are male, and I now work in operational analysis which seems to generally have more females than engineering did. Mind you she has very little interest in games like KSP and prefers Lego Starwars/Batman/LOTR/etc Generally I'm against positive discrimination but I think this is an area where it's important, and there's already too much discrimination (eg kids toys) pushing girls away from engineering. KSP clearly appeals to people with a STEM interest, but maybe it generates that interest in some that didn't have much of it to start with. I'd be quite interested to see some of the gender/age/country/education/etc stats people suggested above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket In My Pocket Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) I think this is a perfectly legitimate question and I think the OP asked it innocently enough. As far as more options goes, if your a man who identifies as a women...then pick the female option, because apparently that's how you identify and that's how you'd like all of us to see you so...I don't get the problem lol. If you prefer not to say then...don't vote! Tallying the votes of those that omitted to vote is just silly. If you feel that whatever you identify as really doesn't fall under those two categories vote the closest thing and then clarify in your response to this thread why that is. I don't think the OP meant any insult to anyone when he made the poll, and I don't think it's exclusionary unless you intentionally try to see it that way. That said, the results so far are pretty interesting: 10% of those that voted are female (or identify as female) which is more than I would'ave guessed. Edited January 21, 2016 by Rocket In My Pocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FungusForge Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said: I think this is a perfectly legitimate question and I think the OP asked it innocently enough. Yes, but I've seen many a innocent topic degenerate into feces fling. E: That is not to say this thread will head that way, but let us sit with fingers crossed the wrong guy doesn't roll up here. Edited January 21, 2016 by FungusForge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 3 hours ago, Benji said: A more interesting question: Is there anyone with 3 arms playing KSP. Is it cheating? Actually I have 4 but I play with three as an 'armless little self imposed rule to make the game more challenging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerbMav Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 41 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said: As far as more options goes, if your a man who identifies as a women...then pick the female option, because apparently that's how you identify and that's how you'd like all of us to see you so...I don't get the problem lol. If you prefer not to say then...don't vote! Tallying the votes of those that omitted to vote is just silly. If you feel that whatever you identify as really doesn't fall under those two categories vote the closest thing and then clarify in your response to this thread why that is. I don't think the OP meant any insult to anyone when he made the poll, and I don't think it's exclusionary unless you intentionally try to see it that way. That said, the results so far are pretty interesting: 10% of those that voted are female (or identify as female) which is more than I would'ave guessed. Problems (that start before even thinking of any 21st century gender issues): The poll - as any other - represents not the percentage of female KSP players, but the percentage of KSP players that visit the forums, choose to participate in this poll and are female. But I concur with the "vote what you identify as" or "feel closest to", and I also sympathize with the sentinment to ignore polls that do not offer answers appropriate to my situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxPeck Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 @RizzoTheRat I'm in the mid-atlantic, my students come predominantly from the area between New Jersey and the Carolinas and as far west as Ohio. The college I work for is somewhere in the neighborhood of ~60-65% female. The majority of female students are in traditionally female dominated fields like nursing and teaching. I don't have exact numbers, but I believe our STEM participation rate is in the 10-20% range. I'll tell you what I find really interesting is not so much the question or its outcomes, but rather the community response to a gender-related question. I will concede that this topic may have been better suited to "The Lounge" than its current forum, but that notwithstanding, its a fairly innocuous question. People ask stupid questions all the time, but on this particular topic, people felt the absolute need to create outrage (what if I don't fit in your narrow gender descriptions?) or express their offense (this whole topic is inappropriate!), or to discredit the question (pft, as if it matters whether you're male or female). Meanwhile, I'm sure you wouldn't have to dig too far into The Lounge to find "Do you prefer X or Y operating system" or "Star Trek vs Star Wars" or the inevitable "Pirates or Ninjas". I haven't done it at length, but based on my experiences with Forums, I'm sure they're out there. I agree with the person who said the question was posed innocently enough. It's not like the OP came on and did the old "A/S/L pm if you're a girl and wanna chat" routine, he asked a simple question: is KSP dominated by dudes or are there any ladies here? I find it fascinating that because the question involves gender, that it immediately made people uncomfortable and/or angry, as though gender is something taboo. I wonder what that says about us as a people that we're no longer at liberty to be curious about each other, and that we have to live in these sterile, clinical bubbles of gender-neutral, topical conversation? I think, in this case, the responses have been more interesting than the actual question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NecroBones Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 2 hours ago, Stone Blue said: Its only to wonder if I need to use "he" or "she", rather than having to type out a whole user name, some of which, I have to pause, scroll up several posts, and try to remember odd combinations of alpha-numeric names... Yeah, I'm not sure what's the most polite when gender is unknown, other than to avoid using pronouns altogether. Darn those linguistic limitations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, NecroBones said: Yeah, I'm not sure what's the most polite when gender is unknown, other than to avoid using pronouns altogether. Darn those linguistic limitations! English does have a singular third-person gender-neutral pronoun. People just tend to get annoyed when you use it. Edited January 21, 2016 by razark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozen_Heart Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I just use they when I don't know if its a guy or a girl. As 90% of ppl on the forum are male its pretty safe to say he though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stone Blue Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) 24 minutes ago, NecroBones said: Yeah, I'm not sure what's the most polite when gender is unknown, other than to avoid using pronouns altogether. Darn those linguistic limitations! Well, I admit, politeness aside, my reasoning is very selfish: I'm a lazy typer, and he/she is very quick & short...lol I also admit, sometimes I just type "someone said", or "someone posted", instead of giving credit to that specific person even though I know who it was... Again, typing "someone" is quicker than looking up and typing an unfamiliar user name...lol Edited January 21, 2016 by Stone Blue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worir4 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I know for sure @Valentina Kerman is. I wouldn't ask her out though, you may get an SRB to the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiagobs Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I try to avoid pronouns as well, but often go for "he/she" and the person can correct me if he/she () feels like it... Sometimes is easier to guess the gender based on their usernames, but mix-ups can happen, as Nertea would be keen to point out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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