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How should I fix my relay system? [Remote Tech]


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So this is my current relay system:

image.jpg

Black dots are sats with Omni antennas (the blue lines are the omni connections)

Red dots are long range sats (DTS-M1) the red lines are the connections of the longe range dishes/antennas

Black dots with a small red dot means there is an omni antenna and a long range antenna.

Any tips for me for a better connection, I have trouble knowing which dish should target what.

 

Here is my future planned relay system: the purple line is a new satellite system:

image.jpg

 

The reason I made the new relay sats closer to kerbin is because I dont have any long range connection if you set Kerbin as target (please correct me if Im wrong).

 

so does this look like any good?

 

 

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Simple is best IMO.  I've got a lowish orbit (760km gives a 1.5hr period) set of 4 satellites each with a Communatron 16 (always in comms with KSC via the network of these) and a pair of DTS-M1's (one pointed at Minimus, one at the Mun).

For longer range comms I was going to put a set of 3 keostationary satellites up, one over KSC with a direct link, and then a link from that one to the other two, each would then have a long range transmitter that I could change to whatever ship or planet I wanted comms with.  I think this is how your first picture works?

However I came up with another plan instead.

Now my LKO Komsats provide a link from KSC to all the ground stations, and I just point the big dish on the ground stations at what I'm interested in, and they're at ground level so even a low angle antenna pointed at Kerbin will see them from not too far out.

 

Edited by RizzoTheRat
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1 hour ago, RizzoTheRat said:

Simple is best IMO.  I've got a lowish orbit (760km gives a 1.5hr period) set of 4 satellites each with a Communatron 16 (always in comms with KSC via the network of these) and a pair of DTS-M1's (one pointed at Minimus, one at the Mun).

For longer range comms I was going to put a set of 3 keostationary satellites up, one over KSC with a direct link, and then a link from that one to the other two, each would then have a long range transmitter that I could change to whatever ship or planet I wanted comms with.  I think this is how your first picture works?

However I came up with another plan instead.

Now my LKO Komsats provide a link from KSC to all the ground stations, and I just point the big dish on the ground stations at what I'm interested in, and they're at ground level so even a low angle antenna pointed at Kerbin will see them from not too far out.

 

Though that wont help me go to other planets.

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13 minutes ago, RizzoTheRat said:

It gives the link to other planets, you just 3 satellites orbiting the other planet as you've already got in your diagram and you switch the ground station antennae to target the planet of interest. 

Right, you just set your ground sats to the target planet and you set an antenna at active vessel right?

 

or you can do my way which is a bit more complex but hopefully also working:

 

image.jpg

Purple orbit lines are planned relay systems and the green line is the path of a vessel leaving kerbin SoI. The yellow block is the vessel. The yellow line is the (longest) communication path.

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One thing to bear in mind:  RemoteTech is kinda crashy.  My experience has been that the frequency of crashes goes up a lot as the number of links in the system goes up.  So building a "web" in which lots of satellites have links to lots of other satellites can become frustrating, once you start expanding your network beyond Kerbing.  I was having the frustrating experience of multiple crashes an hour.  Then I simplified my network to have only one link per planet, and the crashes became much less frequent and life was a lot more fun.  YMMV.

Personally, I would suggest radically simplifying the network;  I strongly agree with @RizzoTheRat's recommendation that "simpler is better."  You don't need multiple relay rings around Kerbin.  You have that low-altitude ring of satellites that connect to each other via omnis, and that's great.  And you have a similar low-altitude network around Mun and Minmus, also good.  But beyond that, all you really need is a single big relay satellite in high-altitude polar orbit around Kerbin, say at 30,000 km or so.  Pile that one up with all your interplanetary-communication antennas; all communication between Kerbin and the rest of the solar system goes through there.

Your low-Kerbin network can stay in touch with your low-Mun and low-Minmus networks via DTS-M1's that target the respective bodies (nothing targeting a specific satellite).  Your single high-orbit interplanetary relay has a DTS-M1 pointed at Kerbin to stay in touch with the low-Kerbin network, and then it uses its interplanetary antennas to stay connected with the broader solar system.

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1 hour ago, Snark said:

One thing to bear in mind:  RemoteTech is kinda crashy.  My experience has been that the frequency of crashes goes up a lot as the number of links in the system goes up.  So building a "web" in which lots of satellites have links to lots of other satellites can become frustrating, once you start expanding your network beyond Kerbing.  I was having the frustrating experience of multiple crashes an hour.  Then I simplified my network to have only one link per planet, and the crashes became much less frequent and life was a lot more fun.  YMMV.

Personally, I would suggest radically simplifying the network;  I strongly agree with @RizzoTheRat's recommendation that "simpler is better."  You don't need multiple relay rings around Kerbin.  You have that low-altitude ring of satellites that connect to each other via omnis, and that's great.  And you have a similar low-altitude network around Mun and Minmus, also good.  But beyond that, all you really need is a single big relay satellite in high-altitude polar orbit around Kerbin, say at 30,000 km or so.  Pile that one up with all your interplanetary-communication antennas; all communication between Kerbin and the rest of the solar system goes through there.

Your low-Kerbin network can stay in touch with your low-Mun and low-Minmus networks via DTS-M1's that target the respective bodies (nothing targeting a specific satellite).  Your single high-orbit interplanetary relay has a DTS-M1 pointed at Kerbin to stay in touch with the low-Kerbin network, and then it uses its interplanetary antennas to stay connected with the broader solar system.

Okay so I think I get it:

1. Put satellite with 2 comm DTS M1 (1 for Mun/Minmus, 1 for Kerbin) 2 Comm 88-88 (for Duna and for active vessel, maybe if I want to go to Ike I could use a comm DTS M1 from Duna relay to get a signal).

 

2. Renew my LKO relay system with comm 16 and a comm DTS M1 (pointed at the polar orbit satellite right?)

 

3. Remove unnecessary satellites

 

this should work right? Might renew the mun relay system so I can gwt rid of two sats.  

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10 minutes ago, ToukieToucan said:

Okay so I think I get it:

1. Put satellite with 2 comm DTS M1 (1 for Mun/Minmus, 1 for Kerbin) 2 Comm 88-88 (for Duna and for active vessel, maybe if I want to go to Ike I could use a comm DTS M1 from Duna relay to get a signal).

Not quite.  Communications from Mun/Minmus should go directly to Kerbin, not route through the polar relay satellite.  Reason:  DTS-M1 doesn't have the range.  If the polar relay is on this side of Kerbin, and Minmus is way on the other side of Kerbin, then they're actually out of DTS-M1 range from each other.  DTS-M1 has barely enough range to reach from Kerbin itself to Minmus, but not a lot farther than that.

So the polar relay satellite talks only to Kerbin.  It has a single DTS-M1 pointing at Kerbin, and then a bunch of 88-88's for talking to ships around the solar system, and maybe a couple of big Reflectrons for talking to Dres / Jool.

The low-Kerbin ring satellites each have a single Communotron-16 (for talking to each other, and to KSC, and to any ships in near-Kerbin space), and three DTS-M1's:  one pointed at the Mun, one at Minmus, and one at the polar relay.

Each satellite in your Mun/Minmus rings has two antennas:  a Communotron-16 for talking to neighbor satellites, surface vessels, and near-moon space, plus a single DTS-M1 pointed at Kerbin.

10 minutes ago, ToukieToucan said:

2. Renew my LKO relay system with comm 16 and a comm DTS M1 (pointed at the polar orbit satellite right?)

Yes, but you also want it to have a DTS-M1 pointed at Mun, and another at Minmus, as described above.

10 minutes ago, ToukieToucan said:

3. Remove unnecessary satellites

Yes, absolutely.  Mainly because RemoteTech gets crashy as the network grows more complex.

Edited by Snark
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1 hour ago, Snark said:

Not quite.  Communications from Mun/Minmus should go directly to Kerbin, not route through the polar relay satellite.  Reason:  DTS-M1 doesn't have the range.  If the polar relay is on this side of Kerbin, and Minmus is way on the other side of Kerbin, then they're actually out of DTS-M1 range from each other.  DTS-M1 has barely enough range to reach from Kerbin itself to Minmus, but not a lot farther than that.

So the polar relay satellite talks only to Kerbin.  It has a single DTS-M1 pointing at Kerbin, and then a bunch of 88-88's for talking to ships around the solar system, and maybe a couple of big Reflectrons for talking to Dres / Jool.

The low-Kerbin ring satellites each have a single Communotron-16 (for talking to each other, and to KSC, and to any ships in near-Kerbin space), and three DTS-M1's:  one pointed at the Mun, one at Minmus, and one at the polar relay.

Each satellite in your Mun/Minmus rings has two antennas:  a Communotron-16 for talking to neighbor satellites, surface vessels, and near-moon space, plus a single DTS-M1 pointed at Kerbin.

Yes, but you also want it to have a DTS-M1 pointed at Mun, and another at Minmus, as described above.

Yes, absolutely.  Mainly because RemoteTech gets crashy as the network grows more complex.

Right the munar/minmus DTS M1 antennas where meant to be used for the LKO sats.

 

A sat with a DTS M1 at 1 000 km will be able to contact the polar orbiting sat at 30 000 km right with just DTS M1s right?

 

Also will this system work:

 

 

LKO Sat 1: Target: Mun, Minmus, Polar orbit sat - all dts m1

LKO Sat 2: Target: Mun, Minmus, Polar orbit sat - all dts m1

LKO Sat 3: Target: Mun, Minmus, Polar orbit sat - all dts m1

Polar Orbit Sat: Target: Kerbin - with dts m1, active vessel, Duna - both with Comm 88-88

 

That should work right?

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1 hour ago, ToukieToucan said:

A sat with a DTS M1 at 1 000 km will be able to contact the polar orbiting sat at 30 000 km right with just DTS M1s right?

Yes, that should be no problem at all.  The DTS-M1 has a range of 50,000 km, so it can reach Kerbin with plenty of range to spare.

1 hour ago, ToukieToucan said:

LKO Sat 1: Target: Mun, Minmus, Polar orbit sat - all dts m1
LKO Sat 2: Target: Mun, Minmus, Polar orbit sat - all dts m1
LKO Sat 3: Target: Mun, Minmus, Polar orbit sat - all dts m1

Yes, these all look good (assuming that each one also has a Communotron-16 for staying in touch with KSC and each other).

1 hour ago, ToukieToucan said:

Polar Orbit Sat: Target: Kerbin - with dts m1, active vessel, Duna - both with Comm 88-88

Close, but not quite:

  • DTS-M1 pointed at Kerbin is fine.
  • 88-88 pointed at active vessel is also fine.
  • However, 88-88 pointed at Duna is not fine.

The beam from the 88-88 is so narrow that if you aim it at Duna from Kerbin, there's a good chance of missing ships that are orbiting high over Duna.  (i.e. the cone is still much smaller than Duna's SoI by the time it reaches Duna).  Basically, for all the interplanetary dish antennas, it's best not to try to use them in "cone" mode, i.e. never target a planet or moon with them.

So that last 88-88 should be targeting a specific vessel (e.g. a polar relay satellite around Duna, or whatever) instead of targeting Duna itself.

Similarly, your interplanetary ship should target your polar relay satellite, not Kerbin itself.

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