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1 hour ago, Cavscout74 said:

I've even seen a fairly convincing argument that all life support mods do is add parts/mass to your craft - basically, anyone that wants to use LS is going to carefully plan their missions, and is unlikely to run out, so the end result is just a more complicated & heavier craft. 

Adding mass to the trip is kind of the point.  It adds a new aspect to mission planning- taking a longer/slower trajectory and saving fuel, vs..a faster one to save life support mass.

It also synergizes well with nifty things like Greenhouses- if they added those too.

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I haven't actually played any life support mods yet, but I've read up on some of them. At the lightweight end you have Snacks - if your kerbals run out of food they go on strike and act like tourists. At the heavyweight end you have stuff like Kerbalism where you have multiple resource paths, needs, and also external hazards like radiation. It's not "just" about adding mass to your craft, you also have to figure out the logistics and infrastructure. Either way, your high-level choice then becomes whether you send resupply and rescue missions, or produce what you need on-site instead. It's just a matter of how hardcore of a simulator you want to play.

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2 hours ago, sturmhauke said:

At the lightweight end you have Snacks - if your kerbals run out of food they go on strike and act like tourists

Snacks is actually customizable now, with various penalties including death if you don't feed your kerbals.  Still the simplest of the 4

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  • 3 weeks later...

I just spent some time browsing through this thread in search of any reply that was against the integration of Kerbal Alarm Clock. I couldn't find any.
KAC is developed by David Tregoning (a.k.a. TriggerAu), one of the Lead Programmers, so proper integration should be possible.
I honestly don't see why it isn't being integrated after it has been recommended in the first post that startet this thread and there is only positive feedback (as far as I could tell).
Has TriggerAu written anything about the matter?
I would love to see KAC added to stock. For me it makes me feel in charge of a real busy space program.

I like TheFrizz's idea (see below) of only making it available after some upgrades to the KSC, most importantly the Tracking station, but maybe also Mission Control (quest giver).
I could imagine that the functionalities would become available in tiers. At first you could only set raw time alarms, then maneuver node alarms, and only later the transfer peroid* planner would become available. There should of course be the option in the settings to just have it function, like it does now, so that stock and mod version don't need to be split.

On 3/23/2018 at 9:46 PM, TheFrizz said:

Kerbal alarm clock - Remove the in-flight UI and add alarm management to the Tracking Station after tracking station is upgraded to level X. Where X is priced at a range where players are starting to fill a lot of contracts by executing them in parallel.  I think it would be in keeping with the game to add optimal transit window finding as a capability of the scientist of high enough star level, although realism would dictate that the ground station could always do the calculations.


* I know that most people call it transfer window, but the transfer window is technically the span of time each day when you can directly launch from a rotating body.
The launch period depends on the phase angle between your departure celestial body and your destination with regard to the central object both bodies orbit (e.g. the Sun / Kerbol).
Many launch windows may occur during a launch period. (For example: A launch period might be three weeks in July and the launch window might be from 3 p.m. to 4 p.m. every day.)

Just so I – newbie – have also added my 0.02$:
I don't think that KER and especially MJ should be added to stock. I'm sure they are great in what the do, but especially new players shouldn't be overloaded with information and automation should definitely not be an easy option within the base game. Once you are an expert, sure, go out, grab the mods!

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  • 4 weeks later...

What I think:

Must have list that may prevent you from updating:

KER, KAC, Transfer Window Planner.

Almost essential, may be forged for really cool update:

Bon voyage, Restock, Restock+, missing history, Tarsier Space (or science, can't remember) Technologies.

Nice to have, should be stock:

Kopernicus, Extrasolar, opm, Bumblebee.

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5 hours ago, aspacecephalopod said:

Some form of proper flight info and dV stats (won't force MJ on all but I love it, KER is great too)

KAC

Restock/Restock+ is wonderful and makes KSP look far more coherent and finished without any noticeable CPU hit on my old laptop.

Some form of KAS/KIS

Yeah, all of @Nertea stuff should be in ksp2 and most in ksp1, but most importantly restock and restock+.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

Mods that should be stock:

ReStock
Restock+
Better Time Warp
Kerbal Joint Reinforcement
Kerbal Alarm Clock
Kerbal Attachment System
Scatterer

Mods that I want to be stock but that may not make much sense:

EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements (+stock configs, Spectra, or SVE)
Kerbal Engineer Redux
[x] Science!
SigmaLoadingScreens
Community Tech Tree (+Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes)
Near Future Technologies (all)
Mark IV Spaceplane System
Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux
Kerbal Planetary Base Systems
Outer Planets Mod
Minor Planets Expansion

Mods that would never be stock but are nice to have anyway:

Astronomer's Visual Pack
TextureReplacer
Kerbal Environmental Institute
Kerbal Atomics
Cryogenic Engines + CryoTanks
KSP Intersteller FuelSwitch/Extended
Alcubierre Warp Drive
Kopernicus
Rescale!/SigmaDimensions
Beyond Home
Galileo's Planet Pack
JNSQ
Extrasolar

 

What do you think?

Edited by Maple Kerman
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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 5 weeks later...

How about all the mods. And the mod makers can simply do what they do now but are installable in game. Then they are labelled for each version and you can simply select it and have it auto installed via the actual software. I think they were going for this originally by the looks of it.

If it's not for the current version you either can't install it or you have to accept the risk.

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3 hours ago, Arugela said:

How about all the mods. And the mod makers can simply do what they do now but are installable in game. Then they are labelled for each version and you can simply select it and have it auto installed via the actual software. I think they were going for this originally by the looks of it.

If it's not for the current version you either can't install it or you have to accept the risk.

You mean like a kind of stock CKAN implementation accessible in-game? That would be undeniably very cool. They were working on that years ago but it seems they gave up on it. Maybe something for KSP2?

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/6/2017 at 9:05 PM, Ryu Gemini said:

A mod that adds propeller engines.  Or at least a portion of such a mod (specifically, just some of the engines themselves).  If possible, including an electric engine.

Squad would never add this in because everything you just mentioned is in the breaking ground DLC.

whoops i thought that that was the front page...

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Mods I think should be stock:

  • Kopernicus, module manager, custom barn kit, and other library mods - they provide support for a lot of other mods, and having them working the moment a new update goes live would be really nice. I imagine kopernicus would also work a lot better if it was built into the code instead of being a mod
  • AECS motion suppressor - Minor visual improvement, engines no longer wiggle when they're off and flaps stop moving when you reach vacuum. Seems like a common-sense feature.
  • Better burn time - I think most players would benefit, and the readouts are so unobtrusive that I don't think it would annoy any of the players that wouldn't benefit from it.
  • Kerbal Alarm Clock - almost everyone seems to want this and I can see why
  • Transfer window planner - again, almost everyone seems to want this, and I agree
  • SCANsat - It has been very popular for a long time, and I believe it might even make the game a little more new player friendly, as you can figure out a height/gradient map of a planet or moon before attempting a landing
  • Trajectories - shows approximately what your new orbit/landing area will be after you pass through the atmosphere. It's not super accurate because so much depends upon the angle of your spacecraft, but it still really helps.

Mods I mostly think should be stock, but that I'm a little less sure of:

  • Ferram Aerospace Research - A more realistic aero model would be nice, though I'm somewhat concerned the difficulty increase would be too much for some players. I haven't personally felt like it makes anything too hard, but that might just be my playstyle. It's definitely a complex mod.
  • kOS - potential option for getting kids into coding, which almost everyone seems to be trying to do, and while it does allow autopilots, you do really have to work to get one.
  • KRASH/KCT sim - being able to test things prior to launch would be very useful for people playing with reverting/quick-loading off, and being able to test craft starting from orbit/on the surface of another planet through something other than the cheat menu would be handy for more complex craft. As a downside, the focus on reliability and testing craft before you fly them may somewhat interfere with the cartooney style where explosions are commonplace.
  • Kerbal Joint Re-enforcement - I prefer my rockets rigid, but auto-strut already solves *some* of issues with this, and I can see some issues with this decreasing the cartoonyness of KSP.  I'm still fairly sure it should be implemented though
  • Persistent Rotation - Very minor realism change, but really improves how "real" craft feel. Fast spinning craft are kracken-bait, though, and I know some people don't want realism increases.
  • Semi-saturable reaction wheels - also a realism change. I can see issues with how much difficulty it would add, but RCS is mostly unnecessary for attitude control currently. Maybe make it slightly easier than the current mod configuration is.
  • Back-end support for realism overhaul - I'm really unsure on this one, but even though most players would never use it, having most of the stuff for realism overhaul in place but not turned on could really improve stability and performance for the realism junkies

Mods I don't think should be stock:

  • Mechjeb, flight engineer, and precise node - The essential features of these are already part of KSP. Advanced players can definitely benefit from these, and a lot of veteran players are more familiar with their UI, but I don't think the average player would have much use for the features they provide that aren't already stock.

Please let me know if you disagree with anything on this list or if you've thought of any reasons to consider adding vs not adding these mods that I haven't thought of.

Edited by FL-T400
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26 minutes ago, FL-T400 said:

Mods I don't think should be stock:

  • Mechjeb,<flight engineer and precise node are 2 ive never used, so snipped by AlamoVampire> - The essential features of these are already part of KSP. Advanced players can definitely benefit from these, and a lot of veteran players are more familiar with their UI, but I don't think the average player would have much use for the features they provide that aren't already stock.
  • KAS/KIS/<snip as i never used infernal so, im snipping it from the section im quoting. AlamoVampire> - While the stock options aren't perfect, they're good enough to the point where we wouldn't be adding a mod, but improving the stock offerings

These should ABSOLUTELY be stock. Why? Mechjeb is an autopilot. Something we could all use no matter how much folks may argue against it, flying the same launch profile with the same payload multiple times can get tedious if not boring. Yeah, there are those who enjoy that, but, I have a feeling more people dislike it than not and automation would be nice. Like it or not the ages old argument of: "Well the real world space agencies use autopilot why cant we?" is still a valid argument. Also, speaking from personal experience here, if it was not for mechjeb I never would have learned how to perform a rendezvous or docking. Sure there are scads of tutorials on how to do it and I watched my fair share, but, they showed me how THEIR rockets flew and reacted. Mechjeb showed me how MINE flew. I am a kinesthetic learner and for me tutorials do not cut it. The fact we still do not have mechjeb stock is heart breaking to me.

KIS/KAS is superior to the stock versions we have now. KIS provides way way more storage options than stock and takes up less in terms of parts counts to get a significant storage of parts compared to stock. KAS has more ways to build, and more parts to build WITH. OFC my own 2 cents. Mileage and results will vary, consult your manual :D

Procedural Fairings should also be stock as they are superior in every way to stock. Why they like mechjeb were not made stock still puzzles me. I mean Proc Fairings are as far as I am concerned the gold standard of what fairings should be in this game and stock imho fall lightyears short. OFC my own 2 cents. Mileage and results will vary, consult your manual :D

023603232021

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8 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

Mechjeb is an autopilot. Something we could all use no matter how much folks may argue against it, flying the same launch profile with the same payload multiple times can get tedious if not boring. Yeah, there are those who enjoy that, but, I have a feeling more people dislike it than not and automation would be nice. Like it or not the ages old argument of: "Well the real world space agencies use autopilot why cant we?" is still a valid argument. Also, speaking from personal experience here, if it was not for mechjeb I never would have learned how to perform a rendezvous or docking.

I mostly agree with you on the benefits. The general argument against autopilot is that flying your own spacecraft is a key part of the game, and autopilot ruins the fun of that/makes it too easy. Autopilots are generally unpopular, so I was mostly arguing against implementing mechjeb for the info readouts. . Yes, I personally have had an autopilot perform tricky bits of piloting for me and then learned from that to improve my own piloting, but while I like the idea of having an autopilot, there's a lot of opposition to autopilots. I think any integration into stock would have to be very careful, to the point that the only real similarity to mechjeb would be the basic concept of an autopilot.

I haven't really played around with either infernal robotics or the stock equivalent enough to make an informed decision, so I'll just edit that part out.

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@FL-T400 i share the same inexperience with both stock and infernal robotics as you. 

1 hour ago, FL-T400 said:

Autopilots are generally unpopular,<the rest of the sentence will be covered momentarily with a secondary quote>

if this is the case, then why the popularity of Kerbal Operating System? The fact is if you have the skills with that, it can do much more than mechjeb can hope to do in terms of raw automation, yet people do not balk at it or argue against it. MechJeb is just as viable and requires far less technical knowhow to use and use effectively.

2 hours ago, FL-T400 said:

so I was mostly arguing against implementing mechjeb for the info readouts.

Ok, as I am reading you you are against mechjeb for its informational readouts. If I am wrong please correct me and I will happily retract what I am about to say as it applies to you personally, but, I will leave the statement as it applies towards the fans of kerbal engineer redux. Ok that disclaimer out of the way, if you are against the additional information then what about KER and its informational readouts? Do you dislike them? What of those players who support it? I like Mechjeb because not only is it an autopilot but it has the informational readouts and saves me the effort of dealing with another mod. Win-Win for me lol. How can knowing your dV or TWR or any other bit of information be a bad thing? What about the stock informational readouts about your basic orbital information provided stock? Again, if I have misread your intention lemme know :) but, I would still like to pick your brain on these tidbits all the same :)

050303232021

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3 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

if you are against the additional information then what about KER and its informational readouts? Do you dislike them? What of those players who support it? I like Mechjeb because not only is it an autopilot but it has the informational readouts and saves me the effort of dealing with another mod. ... How can knowing your dV or TWR or any other bit of information be a bad thing?

I often use the mechjeb and KER readouts, but with dV and TWR easy to measure in the VAB and in flight already, and with Ap/Pe visable in flight when not in map mode, I don't think a large enough portion of the player base would really have a use for their other features. Visually displayed information takes up screen space. Pre-1.6 my position was that they should be integrated, but I think with dV and basic TWR info already available in stock, I don't really see the benefit for the average player. The mods are definitely still useful for a lot of people, but I don't think they're useful for enough people to be added to the base game.

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