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[1.8.x+] Strategia [v1.8.0] [2019-10-22]


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WIerd, it definetly shouldn't do that. What other mods do you have on there? You should also grab an output log (and the persistent file probably) for nightingale to look at.

Also, are you getting any notifications?

Edited by smjjames
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2 minutes ago, smjjames said:

WIerd. What other mods do you have on there? You should also grab an output log (and the persistent file probably) for nightingale to look at.

Yup, I was just going to ask @eberkain for the KSP.log - that should have all the +rep events listed.

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[LOG 16:07:34.866] [VesselRecovery]: [TDC-15] Research Truck XL recovered At Runway. Recovery Value: 100.0% 
[LOG 16:07:34.867] Crewmember Bill Kerman is available again
[LOG 16:07:34.868] FF: kerbal status change: Bill Kerman from Assigned to Available at time 5351633.64654977
[LOG 16:07:34.869] FF: hall of fame refreshed
[LOG 16:07:34.870] Added 21.33538 (22.5) reputation: 'VesselRecovery'.
 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_wAo_KZdHCrTEVvaF9IQTlPUWc/view?usp=sharing

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Hello @nightingale.. I'm wondering about strategies that say things like "Cannot have more than one crewed or uncrewed mission active at a time" (eg 'The Duna Program'):

  • There can be two active missions; one crewed and one uncrewed?
  • What happens if I launch a second crewed mission (or does Strategia simply prevent it)?

Having fun with it so far! Just about ready to write up the next post.. but need to select the second strategy :) .

Edited by Death Engineering
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5 hours ago, eberkain said:

[LOG 16:07:34.866] [VesselRecovery]: [TDC-15] Research Truck XL recovered At Runway. Recovery Value: 100.0% 
[LOG 16:07:34.867] Crewmember Bill Kerman is available again
[LOG 16:07:34.868] FF: kerbal status change: Bill Kerman from Assigned to Available at time 5351633.64654977
[LOG 16:07:34.869] FF: hall of fame refreshed
[LOG 16:07:34.870] Added 21.33538 (22.5) reputation: 'VesselRecovery'.
 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_wAo_KZdHCrTEVvaF9IQTlPUWc/view?usp=sharing

Raised #27, assuming you have Media Circus I.  The reputation value is way too high, but I think I need to rethink it completely, as vessel recovery is super easy to game, as you have shown.  Even worse is if I recovery 20 pieces of debris, I'll get the bonus 20 times.

20 minutes ago, Death Engineering said:

Hello @nightingale.. I'm wondering about strategies that say things like "Cannot have more than one crewed or uncrewed mission active at a time" (eg 'The Duna Program'):

  • There can be two active missions; one crewed and one uncrewed?
  • What happens if I launch a second crewed mission (or does Strategia simply prevent it)?

Having fun with it so far! Just about ready to write up the next post.. but need to select the second strategy :) .

1 hour ago, smjjames said:

I think that just means that the goal can only be performed by one craft. I've had multiple craft active while doing one of those mission strategies without problems.

@smjjames is absolutely correct.  I've changed the text from "mission" to "strategy" to be less confusing.

 

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Theres also some funkyness that I'm seeing with the Pilot Focus III bonus. With the 'liberator' engine from Nerteas Kerbal Atomics engine pack, the deltaV actually decreases, but that's not the funkyness, what I'm also seeing is that the decrease is actually less than it is with a pilot than it is with a non-pilot. Though that seems to be the part that is trying to work.

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1 hour ago, smjjames said:

Theres also some funkyness that I'm seeing with the Pilot Focus III bonus. With the 'liberator' engine from Nerteas Kerbal Atomics engine pack, the deltaV actually decreases, but that's not the funkyness, what I'm also seeing is that the decrease is actually less than it is with a pilot than it is with a non-pilot. Though that seems to be the part that is trying to work.

At this point I'm just assuming that the ISP thing needs to be completely broken down and retested...  when I do that (hopefully in the next few days) I'm going to go through the last few pages of this thread for this specific items you've mentioned.

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Okay. I also looked at an engine which wasn't having it's deltaV get reduced and the part where it applies it when a pilot is onboard and doesn't when there isn't one seems to be at least partially working, it was just being applied backwards to the LH2 engine I mentioned earlier.

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12 hours ago, HenryBlatbugIII said:

Is it just me, or is anyone else not receiving bonuses from To Boldly Go?  It's correctly adjusting milestone funds rewards for non-Kerbin bodies (at level 3), but none of the levels have correctly given funds for the first science from a biome or body.

Raised #28 to look into it.

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@smjjames - I've been looking at the Pilot Focus ISP issue, and haven't been able to reproduce as of yet with either stock or Atomic Age engines.  I did add a quick change to force set the realISP field, but as far as I could tell that shouldn't be necessary.

Do you mind trying the dev dll and letting me know if you still have the issue?  The other obvious issue is that you're using MechJeb to report the ISP and I'm using KER.  Can you confirm that the vastly increased delta-v is actually what you are getting (ie. if you burn it all, do you actually get way less)?  If you right click an engine that's giving you messed up delta-v, what ISP does it report with/without a pilot?

Are there any other mods you have that you can think of that might change this somehow?  I skimmed the code of Better Burn Time, and didn't see anything there that should affect this.

Edited by nightingale
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I use both KER and MJ, though I mainly use MJ for deltaV stuff. Also, MJ uses a lot of the same code that's used for deltaV in KER, so, they should mirror each other.

I haven't tried going into deeper analysis of it yet, but I'll check that out in the morning.

As for mods that could potentially mess with it, the only things that could remotely be affecting it might be Extraplanetary Launchpads and UKS (USI Kolonization Systems, Roverdudes thing) do have a bit connected to pilots, but are in no way connected to the ISP of craft. Theres also the Kerbal Stats thing (Taniwha), but you'll have to ask him about it because while I do know it affects their experience, or rather, their efficiency, I have no idea if it could possibly affect Strategia.

I don't have anything that explictly messes with pilots and them boosting ISP or anything like that, so, those three are the only things that I have which really do anything with Kerbals. Those and KAS+KIS, but I don't see how KAS+KIS would affect Strategia.

Also, it was happening before I put better burn time in, so, I know it's not that.

edit: *has a thought, posts in UKS*

Edited by smjjames
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10 hours ago, smjjames said:

I use both KER and MJ, though I mainly use MJ for deltaV stuff. Also, MJ uses a lot of the same code that's used for deltaV in KER, so, they should mirror each other.

I haven't tried going into deeper analysis of it yet, but I'll check that out in the morning.

As for mods that could potentially mess with it, the only things that could remotely be affecting it might be Extraplanetary Launchpads and UKS (USI Kolonization Systems, Roverdudes thing) do have a bit connected to pilots, but are in no way connected to the ISP of craft. Theres also the Kerbal Stats thing (Taniwha), but you'll have to ask him about it because while I do know it affects their experience, or rather, their efficiency, I have no idea if it could possibly affect Strategia.

I don't have anything that explictly messes with pilots and them boosting ISP or anything like that, so, those three are the only things that I have which really do anything with Kerbals. Those and KAS+KIS, but I don't see how KAS+KIS would affect Strategia.

Also, it was happening before I put better burn time in, so, I know it's not that.

edit: *has a thought, posts in UKS*

Actually, I'm more interested in any mods that would affect vessel/engines - I could do the same thing I'm doing without a strategy or pilot and I'd expect the same results.  I'll see what your analysis in the morning tells us...  hopefully that'll give me a hint in which direction to investigate.

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32 minutes ago, nightingale said:

Actually, I'm more interested in any mods that would affect vessel/engines - I could do the same thing I'm doing without a strategy or pilot and I'd expect the same results.  I'll see what your analysis in the morning tells us...  hopefully that'll give me a hint in which direction to investigate.

I don't have anything that would affect the ISP or engines if that's what you mean.

I'm currently getting the testing set up with a stock only craft, haven't started the analysis just yet.

edit: It's definetly different now, compared to the values in the album I posted on the previous page, would these deltaV and TWR values be the expected values?

Strategia2%20career_screenshot_2016-03-0

Looked at one of my big superheavy ships and it's definetly less OP than before. It's still screwy with the liberator engine and possibly the lightbulb, so, going to look into that.

Edited by smjjames
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I can't use Massive Scaled Launches or Contract Slot machine in a Level 2 building whilst there is another 2 strategies in use. Seems that Level 2 only gives a maximum of 2 strategies for the purpose.   

I think this wrong. A level 2 building should always give 3 strategies. Regardless of the combinations used. 

Also in other news. This mixed with contract configure deserves a special thank you. Gift payment inbound for you @nightingale. Thanks for making the game awesome =D

Edited by nobodyhasthis2
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5 minutes ago, nobodyhasthis2 said:

I can't use Massive Scaled Launches or Contract Slot machine in a Level 2 building whilst there is another 2 strategies in use. Seems that Level 2 only gives a maximum of 2 strategies for the purpose.   

I think this wrong. A level 2 building should always give 3 strategies. Regardless of the combinations used. 

Nope, it's by design - I wanted the strategies to be more powerful individually, but more limited (so one strategy slot per building level).  Unfortunately, I need an extra slot always open for the upgrade logic to work.  When KSP 1.1 rolls around I'll fix up all the UI and text stuff to make it look like there's the correct amount of slots open.

5 minutes ago, nobodyhasthis2 said:

Also in other news. This mixed with contract configure deserves a special thank you. Gift payment inbound for you @nightingale. Thanks for making the game awesome =D

Awesome, thanks in advance!

51 minutes ago, smjjames said:

edit: It's definetly different now, compared to the values in the album I posted on the previous page, would these deltaV and TWR values be the expected values?

Strategia2%20career_screenshot_2016-03-0

Looked at one of my big superheavy ships and it's definetly less OP than before. It's still screwy with the liberator engine and possibly the lightbulb, so, going to look into that.

Hard to tell from just that screenshot, but those seem reasonable.  TWR should be unchanged - vacuum ISP should be <old ISP> * 1.025.  I was thinking that this could be a problem with FloatCurve tangents (because I don't touch them), but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Lightbulb worked as expected for me.  It may still be dependent on specific engines, but need *something* else to trigger it...  either a specific sequence of operations, a specific ship build or some other mod to trigger it off.

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I checked the amount of delta V burned (only MJ has a readout for it) and they're consistent with the deltaV readouts in both MJ and KER. There is a slight, but consistent, discrepancy of about +1 deltaV in the readout between the expended and the starting deltaV, but that's a MJ issue, not strategia.

This is still on my main game, I'll check in the stripped down branchoff.

 

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17 minutes ago, smjjames said:

I checked the amount of delta V burned (only MJ has a readout for it) and they're consistent with the deltaV readouts in both MJ and KER. There is a slight, but consistent, discrepancy of about +1 deltaV in the readout between the expended and the starting deltaV, but that's a MJ issue, not strategia.

This is still on my main game, I'll check in the stripped down branchoff.

 

Everything looks normal there - does this mean you're not seeing the issue anymore?

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I was about to post my observation in the stripped down save when you posted nightingale, turns out that there IS something affecting strategia in some way.

This is interesting, in a stripped down save with an identical craft and using just Strategia, it's dependencies, KER, MJ, MM, exception detector, and sensiblescreenshots, the deltaV is actually lower. Time to find out what's causing the difference.

8TulYSW.png

Edited by smjjames
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@smjjames, that's bizarre - the 4150 is the right number though (4048 * 1.025 = 4149.2).  So that makes me think it's something in your other save that is the problem that is either throwing the ISP amounts out of alignment.  I can't even being to guess what it is (nothing we've looked at seems a likely culprit).  Are you able to easily post a full mod list?

EDIT: What's most interesting is that you are not getting the same value in the VAB as the launchpad with a non-pilot or probe core.  The non-pilot amount (4179) is equal to the pilot amount (4284) times the 1.025 multiplier.  So that part actually does seems to be working...  but where's the extra bit coming from??

Edited by nightingale
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45 minutes ago, nightingale said:

Nope, it's by design - I wanted the strategies to be more powerful individually, but more limited (so one strategy slot per building level).  Unfortunately, I need an extra slot always open for the upgrade logic to work.  When KSP 1.1 rolls around I'll fix up all the UI and text stuff to make it look like there's the correct amount of slots open.

Of course. Now I understand the extra open slot. Thank you for explaining it to me.  :)

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