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I'm increasingly starting to hate KerbalStuff.


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I'm trying to download some mods, but nearly 2/3 of them can only be downloaded from KerbalStuff, which has been down for over a day, and there's no other place to get the mods I'm looking for.

 

This.... Is.... So.... Frustrating.....

Edited by Clockwork13
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The websites rarely down, and it's very very user friendly. So don't blame KerbalStuff for network issues, it's so rare to happen that for as long as it's been around, it's amazing it hasn't happened more.

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3 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

The websites rarely down, and it's very very user friendly. So don't blame KerbalStuff for network issues, it's so rare to happen that for as long as it's been around, it's amazing it hasn't happened more.

Sorry but unless they are getting DDOSed or something, it makes sense to blame them for their own network issues.

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7 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

The websites rarely down, and it's very very user friendly. So don't blame KerbalStuff for network issues, it's so rare to happen that for as long as it's been around, it's amazing it hasn't happened more.

It's getting much more common.  It happens a lot now.

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48 minutes ago, Clockwork13 said:

I'm trying to download some mods, but nearly 2/3 of them can only be downloaded from KerbalStuff, which has been down for over a day, and there's no other place to get the mods I'm looking for.

 

This.... Is.... So.... Frustrating.....

Sorry... No pity here... :)
Now you know how I feel about Curse, and especially Github (since I cant access Github for ANYTHING...), when THEY are the ONLY place to download anything... Thats why I think multiple locations for mod hosting is a good thing... It may be a little PIA for the mod devs, but sure makes things easier on end users...

39 minutes ago, Clockwork13 said:

Sorry but unless they are getting DDOSed or something, it makes sense to blame them for their own network issues.

Well, if there werent THOUSANDS of people using CKAN as a crutch, KS probably wouldnt HAVE the traffic it's likely getting, that is drgging it down... ???

34 minutes ago, jonrd463 said:

I know. I hate being inconvenienced by free stuff too.

Yeah... i think we need government regulations to enforce improved quality on free stuff... :D

Edited by Stone Blue
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SERIOUSLY, WHAT!?!! 

ok I'm sorry for shouting, but I'm getting kinda tired of only seeing grumbles about KerbalStuff being down.  Sure it goes down, but it has been made as a free and open service for us all to use and it's no small undertaking.  The storage and bandwidth overheads are massive, and it serves a lot of CKAN's traffic.  From a technical standpoint it's impressive and rather than grumbling about it being down I think folk should actually go and give @SirCmpwn some thanks and encouragement or he might just get fed up with the project.  I'd rather have a KerbalStuff that goes down occasionally than not have it at all.  
Sure github is awesome and never goes down (well, except for last March (IIRC) when it got massively DDoS'd) and sits on massive infrastructure, but it's not exactly easy to hunt for mods on it. You have to know which ones you want, so then it's back to hunting around on the forum for mods.  KerbalStuff actually makes browsing for mods easier than anything else out there.  

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1 minute ago, katateochi said:

SERIOUSLY, WHAT!?!! 

ok I'm sorry for shouting, but I'm getting kinda tired of only seeing grumbles about KerbalStuff being down.  Sure it goes down, but it has been made as a free and open service for us all to use and it's no small undertaking.  The storage and bandwidth overheads are massive, and it serves a lot of CKAN's traffic.  From a technical standpoint it's impressive and rather than grumbling about it being down I think folk should actually go and give @SirCmpwn some thanks and encouragement or he might just get fed up with the project.  I'd rather have a KerbalStuff that goes down occasionally than not have it at all.  
Sure github is awesome and never goes down (well, except for last March (IIRC) when it got massively DDoS'd) and sits on massive infrastructure, but it's not exactly easy to hunt for mods on it. You have to know which ones you want, so then it's back to hunting around on the forum for mods.  KerbalStuff actually makes browsing for mods easier than anything else out there.  

But, it doesn't work for both people that use CKAN and for people who doesn't. So, it doesn't matter how good it is for mod searching if It's not reliable.

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1 minute ago, katateochi said:

 From a technical standpoint it's impressive and rather than grumbling about it being down I think folk should actually go and give @SirCmpwn some thanks and encouragement or he might just get fed up with the project.  I'd rather have a KerbalStuff that goes down occasionally than not have it at all.

Hear, Hear!!

EVERYTHING you posted was very well said...

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4 minutes ago, BloodDusk said:

But, it doesn't work for both people that use CKAN and for people who doesn't.

I just cloned the CKAN meta repo and read out the urls where mods (latest versions) are hosted and counted how many are on KerbalStuff vs how many are not.

Of all the mod's available on CKAN; 863 are hosted on KerbalStuff and 344 are hosted elsewhere.  KerbalStuff hosts 71% of the mods available on CKAN
When you download a mod using CKAN chances are you're downloading from KS.

footnote: If you use CKAN and you think, "I'll just setup a new KSP install",  then copy your CKAN folder (or rather just the downloads subfolder) over from the old install, so CKAN doesn't have to go and re-fetch data that's already sitting on your machine and hammer KS anymore than it has to. 
 

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11 minutes ago, katateochi said:

I just cloned the CKAN meta repo and read out the urls where mods (latest versions) are hosted and counted how many are on KerbalStuff vs how many are not.

Of all the mod's available on CKAN; 863 are hosted on KerbalStuff and 344 are hosted elsewhere.  KerbalStuff hosts 71% of the mods available on CKAN
When you download a mod using CKAN chances are you're downloading from KS.

footnote: If you use CKAN and you think, "I'll just setup a new KSP install",  then copy your CKAN folder (or rather just the downloads subfolder) over from the old install, so CKAN doesn't have to go and re-fetch data that's already sitting on your machine and hammer KS anymore than it has to. 
 

Unfortunately for me, the mods I want are exactly the ones I don't have cached yet. Or, you can use the same CKAN to manage multiple KSP installs. Much easier.

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The very strange thing is that the download statistics that I've seen (checked them yesterday before it went down) make no sense.  Normally, downloads should stay at a rather low base level, spiking hard when an update is released, then dropping back down to that base level.  Previously for FAR that was a background level in the mid hundreds, with spikes to 1700-2000 for the first two days following an update.  Current data shows that there is no update spike and that the downloads linger around 1200-1500 constantly.  For FAR, that's not that much of a load, but if similar things are happening to parts mods that's a lot of bandwidth being used.

The strange thing is that I can't think of a mechanism that could depress the update spike and boost the background rate at that kind of level unless CKAN or some other automated download service is doing something really stupid.  And if that's the case, then I'd be worried that those services and their users are unintentionally DDOS'ing KS as a result.

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I  don't recall, but does Kerbalstuff have a donation option?  Really, LOVE kerbalstuff, but it seems to be hit or miss a lot lately.  I am sure it costs decent money to keep it operational, I would not mind throwing a few bucks towards it if they use it to beef up their server space.  Then again, I am not sure if donations go against Squads policy on making money off the game.

Both CKAN and KerbalStuff need some official Squad love if anything.  For a game that prides itself on complete mod-ability, Squad needs to dump Curse-which is probably the most commercialized, in your face 'GET PREMIUM NOWZ' addon platform out there-and officially support CKAN and KerbalStuff, which generally have the most up to date addon versions (since Curse has a turtle slow update process when new stuff is submitted) And more importantly they do not have a paywall blocking you from their features.

3 hours ago, Palmput said:

The creator of the site has openly said that he doesn't care about kerbalstuff anymore, simply because Squad hasn't made it "the official" mod site. That says all you need to know, honestly.

I don't blame him honestly.  Squad went with a company notorious for shady practices with their addon manager, and a giant pay wall for obvious features that should be included.  Kerbalstuff did everything out of pocket in the name of the community [snip].  No adds, no pay wall, integration into CKAN and a lot simpler to navigate then Github plus it is easier for authors to upload to it.  Curse sometimes takes days to post the recent version uploaded to the database.  As I stated above, KerbalStuff SHOULD get some love from Squad, even if it is just a simple link on the homepage when you click Mods.

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2 minutes ago, ferram4 said:

The very strange thing is that the download statistics that I've seen (checked them yesterday before it went down) make no sense.  Normally, downloads should stay at a rather low base level, spiking hard when an update is released, then dropping back down to that base level.  Previously for FAR that was a background level in the mid hundreds, with spikes to 1700-2000 for the first two days following an update.  Current data shows that there is no update spike and that the downloads linger around 1200-1500 constantly.  For FAR, that's not that much of a load, but if similar things are happening to parts mods that's a lot of bandwidth being used.

The strange thing is that I can't think of a mechanism that could depress the update spike and boost the background rate at that kind of level unless CKAN or some other automated download service is doing something really stupid.  And if that's the case, then I'd be worried that those services and their users are unintentionally DDOS'ing KS as a result.

Server side problems probably. And as pointed by @Palmput, maybe the site is not even being maintained anymore?

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Except the day before I brought up a brief outage to SirCmpwn and he fixed that; he's just not on today, so there's nothing to be done for now, it seems.  So it is being maintained, just not continuing development.  And serverside issues don't exactly explain the strange download statistics.

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11 minutes ago, Palmput said:

The creator of the site has openly said that he doesn't care about kerbalstuff anymore, simply because Squad hasn't made it "the official" mod site. That says all you need to know, honestly.

I think you misrepresent what he said there.  Yes he is upset that Squad don't take an interest or give any support, but what I read from what he said was that's it's the community that's been the real downer for him.

On 03/12/2015 at 11:44 PM, SirCmpwn said:

No one ever shows any interest whenever I've spent time on improving Kerbal Stuff.

This is why I said that giving him some encouragement and support (aside from living up to our reputation of being an awesome community) is in our interests if we want to see it remain.

But still, he quite recently (October ish) upgraded the servers so he is still maintaining it, if he wasn't it wouldn't be there anymore. 

 

 

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This forum has 157686 members, ignoring people who aren't on the forums and use mods, that's probably 156000 people regularly (a couple times every month) downloading large files from kerbalstuff.  It probably gets more traffic than the KSP servers with KSP on them.  It's annoying to have any website down, but if you're unhappy with it, you can use curse or that site which ignores mod licenses. 
Considering it's a free site, it's a really amazing community resource, and we shouldn't take it for granted.

Edited by Mad Rocket Scientist
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1 hour ago, Stone Blue said:

Well, if there werent THOUSANDS of people using CKAN as a crutch

I'm sorry, but I take slight offense at that. I use CKAN as a tool, not a crutch. It was developed by someone who thought it would be useful for people, and it's useful for me and THOUSANDS (apparently, I wouldn't know) of people.

If you don't like it, that's perfectly fine, but just because I don't feel like checking for updates manually on 60+ mods, don't talk about me as if I'm not capable of it.

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1 hour ago, Stone Blue said:

[...]

Well, if there werent THOUSANDS of people using CKAN as a crutch, KS probably wouldnt HAVE the traffic it's likely getting, that is drgging it down... ???

[...]

Downloads are downloads, CKAN doesn't somehow take more information from kerbalstuff, in fact, it takes less, since it can uninstall and reinstall mods without redownloading them.

Plus, CKAN is super useful for heavily modded installs, like RO/RSS.

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