curtquarquesso Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, sal_vager said: @curtquarquesso, they both do have other things to do don't forget, KSP is just one game that Curse provides mod hosting for and it would be no different for Nexus, there are many other games that are served by both these file hosts. Correct. I did mention that. Squad is just one of their many clients to service. I don't think many players understand that, or care to understand that though. Regardless of the reasons though, it definitely makes it seem like add-ons are an afterthought to Squad, even though that's really clearly not the case. 4 minutes ago, pxi said: If I recall correctly, back when the Curse partnership was first announced, the community response to Curse was pretty scathing. The second site was produced as a direct response to the criticism levelled at the design of the default curse site. Say what you will about the partnership, but I doubt that second version of the site came without some prodding from Squad's side. I remember the scathing response, but I don't remember how Curseforge came to be, or why. It was never really explained very well. If anyone has any links to Curse or Squad talking about the differences between Curse and Curseforge, that'd be great. That probably needs to be explained an reiterated if we're going to get people to stop dumping on Curse, and try improve the situation. Just now, sal_vager said: CurseForge existed before this, so you're rather incorrect here. Hmm. Then where did it come from? And why isn't their one experience for all users? Edited February 20, 2016 by curtquarquesso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Iron Crown Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, pxi said: If I recall correctly, back when the Curse partnership was first announced, the community response to Curse was pretty scathing. The second site was produced as a direct response to the criticism levelled at the design of the default curse site. Say what you will about the partnership, but I doubt that second version of the site came without some prodding from Squad's side. You recall incorrectly. Kerbal.curseforge.com was available from day one, and was linked in the announcement of the partnership. Edit: Ninja'd, but I provided a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtquarquesso Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said: You recall incorrectly. Kerbal.curseforge.com was available from day one, and was linked in the announcement of the partnership. Edit: Ninja'd, but I provided a link. Ah. That's what I'm looking for. Still doesn't entirely answer the question. So, authors upload on Curseforge, and players download on Curse? Why the separate sites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Nah you can use CurseForge for both. Curse is the original site, CurseForge is the one the Curse client uses (and will work with KSP one day). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Iron Crown Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Just now, curtquarquesso said: Ah. That's what I'm looking for. Still doesn't entirely answer the question. So, authors upload on Curseforge, and players download on Curse? Why the separate sites? Apparently it was once that way for other games, but with Kerbal's site it allowed full browsing and downloading (without timers or ads) right from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtquarquesso Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, sal_vager said: Nah you can use CurseForge for both. Curse is the original site, CurseForge is the one the Curse client uses (and will work with KSP one day). 6 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said: Apparently it was once that way for other games, but with Kerbal's site it allowed full browsing and downloading (without timers or ads) right from the start. Hmm. Ok. I'd still like to see Curse comment on this. Having two separate sites and two separate experiences is part of what I think has cause a lot of this confusion. Thanks for the background info all. Edited February 20, 2016 by curtquarquesso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pxi Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 13 minutes ago, sal_vager said: CurseForge existed before this, so you're rather incorrect here. 13 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said: You recall incorrectly. Kerbal.curseforge.com was available from day one, and was linked in the announcement of the partnership. Edit: Ninja'd, but I provided a link. Fair enough, I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirish3 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 23 minutes ago, sal_vager said: they both do have other things to do don't forget, KSP is just one game that Curse provides mod hosting for and it would be no different for Nexus, Which is part of the problem with both, and is what makes this idea from @Nothalogh seem such a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, mcirish3 said: Which is part of the problem with both, and is what makes this idea from @Nothalogh seem such a good one. A built in mod manager still needs to get mods from somewhere, so there's still a need for a long term reliable host, but thankfully ckan could use other sites than KerbalStuff, it'll work with SpaceDock, and there's other mod managers such as TinkerTime that does use Curse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothalogh Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 31 minutes ago, sal_vager said: A built in mod manager still needs to get mods from somewhere, so there's still a need for a long term reliable host, but thankfully ckan could use other sites than KerbalStuff, it'll work with SpaceDock, and there's other mod managers such as TinkerTime that does use Curse. CKAN downloads from curseforge as well, so I'm not sure what you're implying there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 If ckan can use curseforge then there's nothing to imply, just use ckan and don't go to Curse, problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobodyhasthis2 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Nothalogh said: CKAN downloads from curseforge as well, so I'm not sure what you're implying there 9 minutes ago, sal_vager said: If ckan can use curseforge then there's nothing to imply, just use ckan and don't go to Curse, problem solved. Just for clarity here. Up to this point we can't scrape mods off Curse into the index. So there normally a process where we use a PR to flag up a change in curse and the mod is downloaded manually by the CKAN team. The whole thing is not automated but there is a link. Normally this just works seamlessly due to some awesome people working hard to get mods on CKAN. Meanwhile in the background. Automation is be discussed right now and all of the above may change soon. Although it too early to speculate on what will happen. Edited February 20, 2016 by nobodyhasthis2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Ahh okay, I didn't know that about ckan, I assume it can just use url's like Tinkertime does. Ckan is a pain to use on Linux by the way, the mono libraries take up a lot of space, and both downloading and updating via ckan on Linux is unreliable as too often a mod will only partially install if at all. I'd prefer a proper cross platform solution without such a bloated dependency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirish3 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) This statement: 38 minutes ago, sal_vager said: If ckan can use curseforge then there's nothing to imply, just use ckan and don't go to Curse, problem solved. and this Statement: 22 minutes ago, sal_vager said: Ahh okay, I didn't know that about ckan, I assume it can just use url's like Tinkertime does. Ckan is a pain to use on Linux by the way, the mono libraries take up a lot of space, and both downloading and updating via ckan on Linux is unreliable as too often a mod will only partially install if at all. I'd prefer a proper cross platform solution without such a bloated dependency. Contain a logical contradiction. Further demonstrating advantages of Squads corporate support for a something along the lines of CKan but maybe not exactly CKan. Rather than throwing money at curse. Edited February 20, 2016 by mcirish3 Clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 You mean something like the Curse client. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirish3 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, sal_vager said: You mean something like the Curse client. Can it pull from more sites that curse? If yes, then Yes, otherwise NO. Edit: isn't the curse client 12 months behind schedule? Is there an ETA on finishing it? Edited February 20, 2016 by mcirish3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothalogh Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, mcirish3 said: Can it pull from more sites that curse? If yes, then Yes, otherwise NO. More importantly, can it manage dependencies, export modlists, and handle sideloads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirish3 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 1 minute ago, Nothalogh said: More importantly, can it manage dependencies, export modlists, and handle sideloads? What he said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Dunno, we'll find out when it supports KSP, or I guess someone could test it with another game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobodyhasthis2 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) 55 minutes ago, sal_vager said: Ahh okay, I didn't know that about ckan, I assume it can just use url's like Tinkertime does. Ckan is a pain to use on Linux by the way, the mono libraries take up a lot of space, and both downloading and updating via ckan on Linux is unreliable as too often a mod will only partially install if at all. I'd prefer a proper cross platform solution without such a bloated dependency. @sal_vager sorry that I can't be much help here. I am an ordinary end user and not a developer. I just get some off forum news now and again that is all. All I know is CKAN is godsend in lieu of a stable 64 bit KSP on non-Linux systems. Where multiple installs are the order of the day. As I currently understand it the issue is at the Curse end. Now lets be quite clear that this might be for very good reasons from their administration point of view. There might be a way to pull the mods off but we going to have to jump through the hoops that Curse provides. It may please some people here to find out that Curse has be helping the team navigate the hoops recently. Although again it just to early to speculate. I feel it appropriate to please ask @DuoDex to read that last bit. As it could be total rubbish and I could use some help in clarifying. So please take this with a huge pitch of salt and I apologise right now if I have made an incorrect observation of the background chatter. As far as an alternative curse client goes 25 minutes ago, Nothalogh said: More importantly, can it manage dependencies, export modlists, and handle sideloads? 17 minutes ago, sal_vager said: Dunno, we'll find out when it supports KSP, or I guess someone could test it with another game. Given the speed that mods change and the need for some mods to be micromanaged. It is a tricky question. All I know is those mod authors that mange their own metadata can push out updates very effectively in the current framework. Moving to a proprietary system may not help them and quite a few will be against it. However another download choice is always welcomed in the community at large. Edited February 20, 2016 by nobodyhasthis2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneck Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, kemde said: To Squad in all friendlyness: pls. keep in mind that, once players have been to the major bodies, it's the mod's that keep the game interesting. The base game becomes boring after some time, yet another maneuver-node, another docking-thing, another landing on a grey surface doesn't challenge the mind for years. This is exactly on point! This is why squad SHOULD officially support what the community deems is the goto place for mods. If the game was un-moddable would it be as successful as it is now? Squad IMO needs to chill on all the legalities. I understand protection of the game and the brand i get that but at what point does all that start to get in the way? Kerbalstuff the name...big deal, support the guy, jeezz! He wasn't asking for nothing! sign a waiver or something and move on. SO does that mean any mod or anything that has kerbal in it, by me just typing the word here should have some kind of law? Edited February 20, 2016 by Redneck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirish3 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, sal_vager said: Dunno, we'll find out when it supports KSP, or I guess someone could test it with another game. Wait what? Are you saying wait for a piece of software, that you don't know what it does? Isn't Squad the customer? Why would you want client software if you don't know if it will meet your user's needs? If squad is paying for software that Curse is making for them why would you want it if Curse hasn't told you how it will work? 4 hours ago, Redneck said: This is exactly on point! This is why squad SHOULD officially support what the community deems is the goto place for mods. If the game was un-moddable would it be as successful as it is now? Squad IMO needs to chill on all the legalities. I understand protection of the game and the brand i get that but at what point does all that start to get in the way? Kerbalstuff the name...big deal, support the guy, jeezz! He wasn't asking for nothing! sign a waiver or something and move on. SO does that mean any mod or anything that has kerbal in it, by me just typing the word here should have some kind of law? You are a little off base here: On 2/17/2016 at 11:49 AM, KasperVld said: Lastly, but perhaps most importantly, was the accusation that we threatened the website with legal action. We would like to stress that no such thing happened. Back in 2014 when the website was being developed we were in the process of acquiring a trademark on the word Kerbal, and part of the obligations one has as a trademark holder is to investigate possible infringements of your trademark. Failure to do so may invalidate the trademark entirely at a later point. To this end we talked to the people behind Kerbalstuff to determine what the website was going to be, and several scenarios were discussed briefly including possibly renaming KerbalStuff. As it was to be a non-commercial community website it quickly became clear that no legal action was warranted against KerbalStuff, and we never pursued legal action against Kerbalstuff or any other community website for using the phrase Kerbal in its name. We’re thankful that Sircmpwn has since retracted this part of the statement from the Kerbalstuff website, but we’ve received a lot of questions about it. Edited February 21, 2016 by mcirish3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneck Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, mcirish3 said: You are a little off base here: yeah i know..but i feel it needs to be said. Not trying to be disrespectful. Just trying to point out if left unchecked it can get out of control Edited February 20, 2016 by Redneck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 10 minutes ago, mcirish3 said: Wait what? Are you saying wait for a piece of software, that you don't know what it does? I help with QA, if you want to know more about the Curse client you can ask the Curse reps, but I'm sure you already know this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcirish3 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 12 minutes ago, sal_vager said: I help with QA, if you want to know more about the Curse client you can ask the Curse reps, but I'm sure you already know this Well, no I did not exactly know this. Curse reps?, as in curse employees or Squad employees who work with Curse? I am not being an jerk or intentionally dense...just... I am not sure what you are suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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