Curse Questions/Suggestions

[Jadedcat]

7 hours ago, CaptRobau said:

• Not enough categories. At this point any mod repository needs to have categories for planet packs, realistic mods, etc. We shouldn't have to put anything that doesn't fit within the standard framework of KSP in Misc or Gameplay if it's become popular enough.
•  
• Not enough time period selection. If you want to stay up-to-date with mods, you basically have to watch the forum because there's no popularity category for the last week, month, etc. All-time popularity categories are very much useless for keeping up to date, because no mods can get into that within a short period. So anything that's hot and heavy, people need to discover through Reddit or the forum, which are above the level of KSP interest of many.

 

 

I'd start a new thread, but not really sure how to quote and do that. Edit: Thanks nice moderator people, I much prefer not derailing the KS conversation. You guys are awesome 

 

Categories: We're always open to new categories. We have added 6 new categories to the Minecraft side of CurseForge in the last month because people requested them and after research we found that there were a good number of mods that really needed those instead of Misc. I'd be happy to review any suggestions on additionally needed categories.

CurseForge/Curse has popularity (changes monthly based on downloads), total downloads and Latest updated projects. I'm not really sure how adding Weekly popularity would be helpful. Could you elaborate on that?

 

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Jadedcat

[swjr-swis]

24 minutes ago, Jadedcat said:

CurseForge/Curse has popularity (changes monthly based on downloads), total downloads and Latest updated projects. I'm not really sure how adding Weekly popularity would be helpful. Could you elaborate on that?

Mods that have had close to a month to gain popularity will generally obscure new entris from perhaps lesser known authors, which then get not noticed so much and remain 'unpopular' never reaching enough numbers to be highlighted. I agree though that I am not sure if a weekly popular would really help this.

Maybe more something like a 'New Entries' that just lists new mods uploaded the last week, without a popularity count?

 

[TheMoonRover]

4 minutes ago, Buzzkil88 said:

It's a mess. Most mods on ckan link to kerbal stuff for download.  Ends in an error. 

So that's why I couldn't download a copy of my own mod through CKAN. At least it's also on Curse, but I can't update it by myself on there.

Am I right in thinking Curse allows only one author per mod?

[Jadedcat]

4 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

Mods that have had close to a month to gain popularity will generally obscure new entris from perhaps lesser known authors, which then get not noticed so much and remain 'unpopular' never reaching enough numbers to be highlighted. I agree though that I am not sure if a weekly popular would really help this.

Maybe more something like a 'New Entries' that just lists new mods uploaded the last week, without a popularity count?

 

The "Latest Updated" will give you the new mods.

 

The popularity metric has an algorithm that I do not understand, the basic result is that it deprecates the "weight" of downloads over time.

For example one of my projects is the most downloaded project of its type. However, I have not needed to update it in 5 months. While it currently has 1mil+ downloads, the most popular project has half as much. They have had more recent updates and their project is newer. The majority of my downloads are old, so they don't count as much for popularity. Current popularity is an algorithm (I call it weird magic) that cosiders age of the project, number of recent downloads, some amount of the old downloads and other things. So a new project can and often does replace a popular but older project who's downloads have started to reduce.Over the course of the last couple months the top 25 most popular projects on Minecraft/CurseForge have changed several times based on updates/current downloads.

 

4 hours ago, TheMoonRover said:

So that's why I couldn't download a copy of my own mod through CKAN. At least it's also on Curse, but I can't update it by myself on there.

Am I right in thinking Curse allows only one author per mod?

You can have as many authors as you want. What we see a lot is people making a "Team Account" and using that to upload files,  collect reward points and split them and manage archives/information pages while the team members accounts are all added with different permissions based on what they do.

http://minecraft.curseforge.com/projects/cofhcore

 

The current "ranks" or permission groups are Owner, Author, Maintainer, Artist, Contributor, Tester, Documentor , Former Author and Mascot . And you can have as many of each of those as you want. You don't have to have a "Team Account" but a lot of teams use it for easier tracking of who gets points/access. 

 

Why can't you update the project on CurseForge? If there's a bug/glitch/access issue I'd be happy to look into it.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Jadedcat

[Eskandare]

Just to reiterate my comment on the other thread, I apologize for my criticism, but I feel the page layout is a but cluttered and mildly confusing, although not to the point of not being able to find the download button. May I suggest looking into using system psychology to improve the human interface of the layout, I feel it would behoove the team to revisit how a person looks at the screen and rationalizes where the features are. Mind you, this is my observation. What is your thoughts on the layout?

[avalancha]

It's kind of funny how civilized this has become here after all the "Curse su*** so bad" in the other threads but I love it, let's have this talk here!

First of all I have to say I really kind of like Curse, I find the repository quite extensive and the response time nice and fast. I always like to filter for the newest version and then sort by added most recently to see which of my favourites have upgraded already. 

But I'll reiterate the two major points that have already been said here:

1. A "hot and trending" category per month and/or week is absolutely warranted. I do not agree that the "newest" is sufficient for that. That list will always be too verbose. And in the popularity of all time MechJeb will never be conquered
2. The UI does feel a bit cluttered and it does not really look very modern

Honestly, my major criticism of Curse is something they can't do anything about, it's that almost no mod has an extensive description filled in there... But that's totally understandable, clicking through to the forum is always an option

[allmhuran]

I totally agree with CaptRobau that discovery is the critical function. Trying to determine a good set of categories (for anything) is always difficult. I would suggest a multi-tag system (with tags drawn from an official tag set rather than being free text). Off the top of my head, I'd suggest at least these:

• Instrumentation (flight)
• Instrumentation (map)
• Career
• Science
• Physics
• Parts
• Robotics
• Combat
• Autopilot
• Rockets
• Aircraft
• Rovers
• Bases and Stations
• Graphics and Sound
• Input

I also often find myself wondering whether an older mod is compatible with a newer version of KSP. Sometimes mod authors finish up a project and stop updating it, but the mod does in fact continue to function through KSP patches. It can be hard to assert whether or not a mod works with a particular version of KSP, so I'd recommend a user voting system: The site could know about versions of KSP and their release dates, and could show when the mod was last updated *relative to the KSP version list* instead of or in addition to showing an actual date, and it could allow users to vote on whether the mod functions with any particular version of KSP. If a mod author is still working on a project then they could of course assert compatabilitty with any particular KSP release, disabling voting for that version. I'm thinking of information kinda like the following - note that I'm not suggesting the replacement of an existing mod page layout and info with this, I've just hastily drawn up a layout to demonstrate the *kind* of information I'm talking about:

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by allmhuran

[Jadedcat]

13 hours ago, Eskandare said:

Just to reiterate my comment on the other thread, I apologize for my criticism, but I feel the page layout is a but cluttered and mildly confusing, although not to the point of not being able to find the download button. May I suggest looking into using system psychology to improve the human interface of the layout, I feel it would behoove the team to revisit how a person looks at the screen and rationalizes where the features are. Mind you, this is my observation. What is your thoughts on the layout?

I agree on Curse.com being a bit harder to navigate. CurseForge.com is better, but I feel it still has some navigation issues. We did just (beginning of the month) hire someone with a specialty in user interfaces (there's a fancy term that I can't remember) who will be going over all that and hopefully optimizing it.

 

11 hours ago, avalancha said:

It's kind of funny how civilized this has become here after all the "Curse su*** so bad" in the other threads but I love it, let's have this talk here!

First of all I have to say I really kind of like Curse, I find the repository quite extensive and the response time nice and fast. I always like to filter for the newest version and then sort by added most recently to see which of my favourites have upgraded already. 

But I'll reiterate the two major points that have already been said here:

1. A "hot and trending" category per month and/or week is absolutely warranted. I do not agree that the "newest" is sufficient for that. That list will always be too verbose. And in the popularity of all time MechJeb will never be conquered
2. The UI does feel a bit cluttered and it does not really look very modern

Honestly, my major criticism of Curse is something they can't do anything about, it's that almost no mod has an extensive description filled in there... But that's totally understandable, clicking through to the forum is always an option

I will bring up the idea of "New and trending" to the developers. I can understand the reasoning expressed here. Its not something we have seen needed in other games before. 

Which UI? CurseForge is the UI we are currently developing and will eventually replace the Curse.com UI, so that is the one we can work on. Since Cursse.com is being revamped completely, we are not doing development there right now unless its an urgent bug.

As to descriptions, the admin staff go back and forth on that. On Minecraft, Wow and several other games we require a detailed description. For the most part mod authors have been able to just copy paste forum descriptions in and fix a few format discrepancies. However with Kerbal Space Program, the mod descriptions often are quite well filled out on the forums, and the text editor used here doesn't have the same formatting. We all agreed that it seemed unnecessarily restrictive to require the creators to re-write such detailed descriptions again if they preferred to just link to an already set up wiki/forum. At the top of each project on CurseForge there is a tab for "source" and "wiki" and "website", all optional. There is also a built in wiki like page system authors can use if they want as well as a built in issue tracker. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, allmhuran said:

I totally agree with CaptRobau that discovery is the critical function. Trying to determine a good set of categories (for anything) is always difficult. I would suggest a multi-tag system (with tags drawn from an official tag set rather than being free text). Off the top of my head, I'd suggest at least these:

 

Snipped cause its really long, I have passed this to the dev team and my fellow admins and I are going to go over the category list.

For file compatibility, authors can currently flag projects and/or files as related, required, incompatible, or embedded. Authors can mark projects and or files as being compatible across multiple versions. I don't have a good example of that though because most of our other games a version change automatically breaks compatibility. 

 

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

I've been think about what I like about kerbalstuff/spacedock, and here's what I came up with that could be added to curseforge:

• It would be great to see a larger list of mods when I go the kerbal.curseforge.com homepage, instead of the small list on the side.
• Could a "Mod website" field be added, so it's easier to get to the forum thread or website of the mod, where most of the info on the mod is?
• A changelog for mods would be useful.
• When someone downloads a mod, could a page appear asking whether the tags and categories the mod has are accurate?  That could help prevent category spam.

I don't really know what's possible, but I think those could be useful.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Mad Rocket Scientist

[Jadedcat]

11 minutes ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

I've been think about what I like about kerbalstuff/spacedock, and here's what I came up with that could be added to curseforge:

• It would be great to see a larger list of mods when I go the kerbal.curseforge.com homepage, instead of the small list on the side.
• Could a "Mod website" field be added, so it's easier to get to the forum thread or website of the mod, where most of the info on the mod is?
• A changelog for mods would be useful.
• When someone downloads a mod, could a page appear asking whether the tags and categories the mod has are accurate?  That could help prevent category spam.

I don't really know what's possible, but I think those could be useful.

Could you explain what you mean by a larger list? 

Currently we have "wiki" "issues" and "source" for optional external link types, I'll add a suggestion for "website" to be added.

Each file currently has a changelog one of the current topics under discussion is to make it possible for those to be auto-merged on a "project changelog" page, would that work?

Not sure about having something popup to check categories. We do have a "report incorrect category" option and if you put in why its wrong and what would fit better, and we review it and make changes, but authors can change it back. Restricting authors from changing their projects isn't something we do. Some stuff is obvious, other category picks can be a bit subjective.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

16 minutes ago, Jadedcat said:

Could you explain what you mean by a larger list? 

Well, on this page: http://kerbal.curseforge.com/  There's a list of popular projects on the right of the page.  I was imagining making it slightly wider and higher, so that it's a more obvious.  Although on second thought, it looks fine anyway.

20 minutes ago, Jadedcat said:

Each file currently has a changelog one of the current topics under discussion is to make it possible for those to be auto-merged on a "project changelog" page, would that work?

That would be great!

24 minutes ago, Jadedcat said:

Not sure about having something popup to check categories. We do have a "report incorrect category" option and if you put in why its wrong and what would fit better, and we review it and make changes, but authors can change it back. Restricting authors from changing their projects isn't something we do. Some stuff is obvious, other category picks can be a bit subjective.

Sorry, I just missed that option.

[Crzyrndm]

This turned into a bit of a ramble combining thoughts as both an author and user, so reader beware...

(NOTE: I use Github almost exclusively for mod hosting and rely on the forum for "spreading the word")
Primarily I see alternative hosting solutions as just another place to download the mod. I provide a link to the forum thread and maintain any required documentation in one place, the place where I see it as actually possible for someone to stumble across without any prior knowledge of the mod. With discovery via curse (and kerbalstuff/spacedock) unlikely, I don't see the point in maintaining an extensive description.

Now, if the UI and categorisation was such that you could actually find plugins other than Mechjeb, K(A/I)S, and KER via browsing, I would reconsider that stance. My major issue at the moment is that its annoyingly difficult to find plugins (this applied to KS as well). For example, I would look in command and control first for vessel control plugins like MJ, kOS, RPM, Pilot Assistant, Atmosphere Autopilot, ... (assuming they were all on curse, which I know not all are). Instead, I find every part pack that includes parts of that editor type with a scattering of plugins (at which point I would probably just hit google, which was much more interesting than searching curse. Particularly if I limit results to the forums).

In short: Plugins are interesting (and we can use lots of them). Plugins are hard to find. Why should a plugin author use curse? (download speed is a non-issue for pure plugins since size is so small)

Edited February 19, 2016 by Crzyrndm

[Alshain]

The biggest problem I had with Curse was designing a page that explained and showed off my mod.  The tools available are terrible, which to me is strange since I had no trouble making wonderful pages with BukkitDev. But on Kerbal Curse, it's like you have to fight it to do anything reasonable, it was easier to just make a forum thread and use BBCode or WikiCode (which BukkitDev supported!).  Since the forum downgrade we can't use BBCode anymore, but despite that flaw, it's still easier to do it here and link to Dropbox.

Why is it that Kerbal Curse can't be more like BukkitDev?  They are both in the same network!

As it is I would rather end my mods than use Kerbal Curse.  If that were the only option, my mods would just be discontinued.  Honestly it wouldn't shake the game any, I don't have as many here as on Bukkit, but still...

Edited February 20, 2016 by Alshain

[Jadedcat]

On 2/20/2016 at 0:24 PM, curtquarquesso said:

Ah. That's what I'm looking for. Still doesn't entirely answer the question. So, authors upload on Curseforge, and players download on Curse? Why the separate sites?

 

On 2/20/2016 at 0:19 PM, curtquarquesso said:

 

I remember the scathing response, but I don't remember how Curseforge came to be, or why. It was never really explained very well. If anyone has any links to Curse or Squad talking about the differences between Curse and Curseforge, that'd be great. That probably needs to be explained an reiterated if we're going to get people to stop dumping on Curse, and try improve the situation. 

Hmm. Then where did it come from? And why isn't their one experience for all users?

 

CurseForge has been around for quite some time, before Kerbal Space Program existed. Curse.com is the old code base. CurseForge is where authors upload and where the dev team develops the new improved code base. There have been several iterations of the code base over the years. Curse doesn't take one base down until the new base is ready. The way I understand it is: think of Curse.com as being the old but stable (with minor annoyances) site and CurseForge.com as the under development, new codebase. Having 2 seperate codebases, one stable (if old) and one with massive improvements used for testing new features allows for maximum stability for users and authors. 

On 2/20/2016 at 0:33 PM, Alshain said:

The biggest problem I had with Curse was designing a page that explained and showed off my mod.  The tools available are terrible, which to me is strange since I had no trouble making wonderful pages with BukkitDev. But on Kerbal Curse, it's like you have to fight it to do anything reasonable, it was easier to just make a forum thread and use BBCode or WikiCode (which BukkitDev supported!).  Since the forum downgrade we can't use BBCode anymore, but despite that flaw, it's still easier to do it here and link to Dropbox.

Why is it that Kerbal Curse can't be more like BukkitDev?  They are both in the same network!

As it is I would rather end my mods than use Kerbal Curse.  If that were the only option, my mods would just be discontinued.  Honestly it wouldn't shake the game any, I don't have as many here as on Bukkit, but still...

Last time I edited a project BBCode worked on CurseForge.com in the text editors. 

[Alshain]

20 hours ago, Jadedcat said:

Last time I edited a project BBCode worked on CurseForge.com in the text editors. 

Nope,  I just tried, even the BBCode bold tag doesn't work, I can't hope for anything more.  But that isn't all I'm saying, On BukkitDev I can create the page the way I want.  I can have multiple pages, I can place everything exactly how I like.  I can tie it to my repository.  I can have my own little forum.  I can have my own ticket support system.... but best of all, it's easy to do.  Something that can't be done on Curse.  On curse you have a rudimentary WYSIWIG system and comments section.  Nothing more.

 

I mean look, even the most popular mods on CurseForge don't bother making a page and just link to the forum... because it's easier.  They just type a little text and say "go here to get the real info".

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/mechjeb

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/kerbal-attachment-system-kas

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/kerbal-engineer-redux

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/kerbal-inventory-system-kis

Edited February 22, 2016 by Alshain

[Jadedcat]

18 minutes ago, Alshain said:

Nope,  I just tried, even the BBCode bold tag doesn't work, I can't hope for anything more.  But that isn't all I'm saying, On BukkitDev I can create the page the way I want.  I can have multiple pages, I can place everything exactly how I like.  I can tie it to my repository.  I can have my own little forum.  I can have my own ticket support system.... but best of all, it's easy to do.  Something that can't be done on Curse.  On curse you have a rudimentary WYSIWIG system and comments section.  Nothing more.

 

I mean look, even the most popular mods on CurseForge don't bother making a page and just link to the forum... because it's easier.  They just type a little text and say "go here to get the real info".

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/mechjeb

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/kerbal-attachment-system-kas

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/kerbal-engineer-redux

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/kerbal-inventory-system-kis

Mind if I use your project as a test?See if something has broken?

 

NVM: I was wrong, it works on some older sites, but Kerbal CurseForge accepts  "Only plaintext, Markdown, and SimpleHTML." I'll put it on the suggestion list.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Jadedcat