WW2 BAD-T 2 - BDA AI Dogfight Tournament [SEMIFINALS]

[MarvinCZ]

Wow, that was the fastest one yet, I think. I expected to lose this one, so no surprise there. That aim was crazy, though. Really a great plane, @ferram4.

So, any chance of some pointers for improvement?
I can design a plane that flies well in general but I don't know how to optimize for dogfighting. One thing I know from the discussion earlier in the thread - the AI response and damping are too high.

[ferram4]

Yeah, that was... actually, I feel bad, that battle just didn't seem fair.  I was expecting to lose, since I know that a single engine fighter can beat the Tytonid at its own game (stupidly high P/W), but I guess we'll have to see if the 3rd round battles have that.

Anyway, tips.  So the first are on AI settings.  Most of the aiming difficulties come from the base proportional pilot factor being far too strong; it makes the AI overshoot like crazy.  Dropping that helps keep the plane on target.  Problem then becomes that the damping factor is so high that the plane doesn't turn, roll, or anything very well, so the next step is to drop the damping factor.  I think the Tytonid has ~6.5 proportional and 1 damping set, but I don't remember exactly.  Only problem that can remain at this point is that the AI might be very timid about initially turning the thing around with those settings, which can be easily fixed by building some angle of incidence into the wing or tailplane (positive for the wing, negative for the tailplane) so that it naturally produces 1g lift at some kind of speed.

The next thing to look at is power to weight ratio.  Higher P/W means a higher top speed, a higher speed for maximum lift turns (and a faster turn rate in degrees, but a larger turning circle), a higher sustainable climb rate and better zoom climb performance.  For the most part, you increase P/W by losing unnecessary mass, which has the advantage that the plane needs less lift, which means less drag (or even smaller wings, which means even less drag) for level flight, tighter turns, better acceleration, and better airbrake performance.  I think the Tytonid is only 20 kg over the 6,000 kg dry limit for heavy fighters.  Since the dry limit is 2,500 kg for light fighters they should be capable of much better P/W than the heavy fighters under most circumstances.  Only reason to sacrifice on P/W is if increasing it with engine power severely hinders your flight performance for some reason.

The next is to look at roll performance.  The AI isn't very good at truly thinking ahead, so you need very good roll performance to make it stay on target.  Remember that it's easier to stay on target by pulling up or pitching down onto the target and that the rudder is only for last-minute corrections and that yawing to get on target bleeds your valuable energy in the first place.  It also makes near-to-the-ground dives safer because the plane has time to roll upright for the pull-out.  The Tytonid has rather, uh... impressive ailerons to make the heavy double-fuselage design capable of rolling fast.

After that, the thing to do is build a bunch of aggressor craft for it to fight.  Build BnZers, turnfighters, energyfighters, whatever you can to fight it.  Deliberately choose designs that are different from each other to hit everything; don't use the same engines or armament.  As you improve it, make the aggressors start breaking the rules in terms of thrust, weight, or armament.  When you lose, watch the battles from both your craft and the opposing craft, looking at g loading, speed, turn circle, etc. to find where your design is weak.  If the weakness can be rectified with no downside, do it.  If it can't, see if doubling down on your strengths can improve things.  If you can't beat it after that, really dissect the aggressor craft to see why it's better, and try bringing over what you learn to your design.

[tetryds]

Another one uploading as we speak.

Remember that the order is random now so it may be your turn!

Good tips, ferram.

[tetryds]

No one linked it here

 

[gridghost]

Was on my way to do it just now

[Wjolcz]

Why was the FW190D disqualified in the tier 2 battles?

[KamikazeF0X]

Oh ... I loved the look of the Warspite F 20 ... My earliest prototype was looking like this !
That was a nice match btw, I loved the first round when the Warspite took down my plane all the way to the ground like "YOU KILLED MY FRIEND, DIIIIIIIIIIE !!!!"

 

[tetryds]

24 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

Why was the FW190D disqualified in the tier 2 battles?

Because it exceeded the max amount of points, and also failed to takeoff and battle, despite several attempts to get the AI to fly it.

[g00bd0g]

This looks fun, how can I get in on the action?

[tetryds]

@g00bd0g Soon enough BAD-T 3 will begin, you only have to wait until then, I recommend subscribing to this thread to keep in touch with the news.

Two new battles out!

 

The resolution got messed up on the second one for no reason, it's probably using two monitors, I couldn't do anything about that but run the battles again, but that would take time so I won't change it.

This is annoying, it didn't happen for a while, I will have to check every time again now, heh.

[alp3r]

I think mine's AI has become sentient, they finished the match the same way they had in the first; guess they got a signature move lol.

Seriously though, if J45 hadn't stopped following mine while it was diving; I definitely would've lost.

[tetryds]

Was a good match, your AI actually pulled it lower than it's min altitude, made it climb, turned around and got on its tail, neat move.

[alp3r]

I'm clenching my back muscles so tight for the match with @ferram4. "You rarely win, but sometimes you do." I'm going to be believing in this until the match happens haha.

[tetryds]

@alp3r you won twice, there is nothing to worry about.

But yeah, this is the point where each kill is a shiver on the spine.

[DoctorDavinci]

Seeing as @tetryds has caught up a bit I figured I'd release another second tier battle ... This is the Hurles bot vs @luftein's ARSH Force One in the semi-finals

 

Edited May 7, 2016 by DoctorDavinci

[gridghost]

That was 2 great dogfights  I really like the last one, though i thought the AI of TAI were a bit lenient just hanging around on the J45's tail, not doing anything in the 2nd round...  And really nice fighters, too.

[luftein]

11 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

Seeing as @tetryds has caught up a bit I figured I'd release another second tier battle ... This is the Hurles bot vs @luftein's ARSH Force One in the semi-finals

 

 

I finally lost so I was not expecting to get here but there is always the small final

[tetryds]

Wow, Hurles won again!!!!

I was not really expecting for that.

Will it win the Tier 2 battles? We will see.

While the bots weren't built to win, they weren't built to lose, I actually tested and tweaked them to be fair competitors, despite not putting a lot of time into them.

Also wanted to experiment with a few new ideas, turns out that they performed much better than what I would have expected, nice.

For everybody without airplanes battling on the Tier 1 anymore, are you betting on someone already?

[luftein]

 

I bet on the Kamikazef0X's plane because it is thanks to him if I could play this tournament

[DoctorDavinci]

17 minutes ago, luftein said:

 

I finally lost so I was not expecting to get here but there is always the small final

Yes, you still have the Bronze fight left to go

3 fights left in Tier 2 ... I'm not sure how it will turn out

As for Tier 1 ... I'm liking @ferram4's contraption

[Wjolcz]

So it's either me versus the bot or me versus the other flying wing.

I kinda want to see a flying wing vs flying wing fight tbh.

[DoctorDavinci]

1 hour ago, Veeltch said:

So it's either me versus the bot or me versus the other flying wing.

I kinda want to see a flying wing vs flying wing fight tbh.

Well you will have to watch this to find out who's fighting who

 

[MarvinCZ]

18 hours ago, tetryds said:

For everybody without airplanes battling on the Tier 1 anymore, are you betting on someone already?

I bet on ferram4's Tytonid. I felt what it can do. I will also get to say I was defeated by the best :-)

[alp3r]

If I win against ferram, I'm going to do 50 pushups. I'll be posting it here if it is deemed appropriate lool.

[DoctorDavinci]

7 minutes ago, alp3r said:

If I win against ferram, I'm going to do 50 pushups. I'll be posting it here if it is deemed appropriate lool.

I'm gonna hold you to that ... Post a video on YouTube