tetryds

WW2 BAD-T 2 - BDA AI Dogfight Tournament [SEMIFINALS]

Recommended Posts

37 minutes ago, ferram4 said:

I'll likely enter a heavy fighter as well, but I decided to be... well, interesting.  Already executes the dummy without a problem and has somehow managed to out maneuver and destroy most of the light fighter designs I've tried to create to kill it.  I may have to create a heavy fighter to try and kill it.  At the moment I'm tweaking it and trying to balance how much fuel and ammo it should start with to have the necessary endurance.

So I see I'm not the only one going to have a rather unorthodox design. I will just not share the pictures of it. Not yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Temeter said:

I think some of the prop engines are actually stronger than two junos combined, so thrust shouldn't be that much of an issue. 

edit: Nvm, It's of course a lot lighter!

The reason isn't their weight or thrust. It's their flat thrust curve. A turbojet can push a well-designed craft well into the transonic regime, or perhaps even the supersonic regime.

I was thinking of jets with the following specs:

Same thrust curve as the Juno.

ISP of 2600 s. (Yes, I know this is terrible by KSP standards, but it's pretty realistic for period turbojets. It's pretty comparable to what you'll get from small modern turbojets actually, although their TWR is much, much better, 7-9, instead of 1-2, No turbojet EVER gets 6400 s ISP. Even low-bypass turbofans don't get that good ISP, the only thing that does is a HBTF like on a jetliner, or a prop, which will usually get much better values).

Static thrust: 9 kN.

Mass: 500 kg.

25 points per engine.

Edited by Pds314

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Pds314 said:

The reason isn't their weight or thrust. It's their flat thrust curve. A turbojet can push a well-designed craft well into the transonic regime, or perhaps even the supersonic regime.

Ye, i did notice the issue when I played with WW2 style planes around for funs sake. Don't think there is much reason to follow those ideas, you are basically asking for another mod. And really, 90% of the thing here is WW2 prop planes. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No jets.

Edit: hmm, sorry for being rough, it's just that this competition is plain about piston monoplanes, trying to deviate from that breaks balance very badly.

Unfortunatelly I cannot host two tournaments, so let's do our best with what we have :)

Edited by tetryds
Explanation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW, the B40 Falcon engine is rescaling upon reload, probably due to it having a rescale factor of 2 in the config.

In other news, currently got 2 competing designs in the lightweight competition. One is ~98 points and weighs ~2600 kg empty, ~3000 loaded. The other is exactly 100.0 and exactly 2500.0 kg empty, ~2900 loaded.

Hmm.. I think I might have a fix. Make sure it isn't the root part.

Only problem is, it's the only part on the plane that's not radially attached.

Guess I'll add a cubic octagonal strut..

Yup. That worked. Eh, 2501 kg empty isn't TOO pudgy.


EDIT 9001: Grr.... people don't talk enough about rotational kinetic stability even though it's absolutely critical to fighter design. Basically, the only two stable ways to rotate are along the axis with the most or least rotational inertia. Any other axis is unstable.

Edited by Pds314

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Going 1 vs. 4 against Dummies with default AI. They all drained their ammo in 12 minutes and only got a few non-damaging hits in. My plane killed one of them later.... At the 33:00 mark.

I guess we'll see if it can kill the remaining 3 before it's fuel runs out. It has a B40-S Falcon and 30 minutes of fuel at full throttle, but of course the thrust reduction at high speeds and altitudes reduces that, and it isn't gunning the engine quite all the time. The Dummies have about 2/3rds the fuel, but massively more efficient and smaller engines, so their stationary thrust can be maintained for 1 hour, 44 minutes.

Edited by Pds314

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Pds314 said:

Yup. That worked. Eh, 2501 kg empty isn't TOO pudgy.

That's extremely light. Sounds like you're using a command chair instead of a cockpit. I might have to try that.

That reminds me: what are the rules re: Kerbals being able to see? If I make a 'fake' cockpit around my command chair, is that legal?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Pds314 The resizing problem is a stock bug, and yes make sure that the root part is not scaled.
Neat to see that you have two airplanes to enter the competition, I guess it will be hard to choose which one you are going to apply :P

I still recommend giving it time so that you can improve them even more, after you submit you cannot resubmit and all that stuff.

@Doke Yes, it is, and it's known as an open cockpit.
The rules are clear about the Kerbal being safe, and they should probably at least pretend to have some visibility. A fake solar panel "glass" would be fine for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too have got two aircraft to choose from. One is a typically British inspired low-wing fighter inspired by the Typhoon, Defiant and the Hurricane, the other is a high-wing, Polish inspired beast.

I'm having problems with the AI pilot on the low-wing aircraft, so it's likely I'll pick the high-wing fighter for the tournament, which performs better at low speeds and has acceleration far in excess of the other. Not to mention that the AI works on that one :D.

EDIT: Nope, the AI doesn't work properly. It just ends up falling into a spin.

Edited by MightyDarkStar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MightyDarkStar said:

EDIT: Nope, the AI doesn't work properly. It just ends up falling into a spin.

Care to elaborate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, so since my old design doesn't work so well anymore I guess I can post it:

Yep, it's a flying wing. It was a flying havoc in the previous configuration of BAD-T, but now barely turns. It got completely destroyed by a plane I built in less than 10 minutes (you can see it in the pics). The thing doesn't turn well, though it's pretty fast. I will either build it from scratch or make something more conventional. It's demotivating.

Edited by Veeltch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW: @tetryds are you going to check the weight of the planes with KER installed? I noticed that the stock Engineer's Report shows different mass than KER.

C3HFLb3.jpg

Check the stats at the bottom ^^^^^^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, BahamutoD said:

Care to elaborate?

The aircraft attempts a head-on with the dummy, but pitches down with full forward stick and doesn't release it. It ends up in the sea in 10 seconds.

When turning with full Steer Limiter the thing manages to use too much rudder and spins out. I have to turn off the pilot and SAS to fix it. Even when I turned the Steer Damping down it just makes it worse. @BahamutoD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Veeltch What does it say on the map view?

The Engineer's Report seems to be an approximation rather than something accurate, and IIRC it does not account for physicsless parts.
If the map view counter is accurate enough I am going to use it, if not, I will use Engineer Redux, as by logic it will always report a weight higher than the Engineer's Report, so if the craft is valid on the report it will be valid anyway, not forcing anyone to install the mod.

Edit: also, nice wingtip you got there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@SuicidalInsanity Yes, that is the case, you can use 1.25m rocket fuel tanks, that rule is mainly to prevent parts such as rocket engines, fairings, heatshields, 2.5m fuel tanks, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really irritating that the AI has nowhere near managed to attain this top speed it can manage, even in a dive!

2016_02_22_00005_by_lythroa-d9sqyo2.jpg

The AI pilot seems excruciatingly stupid for my aircraft, however I've done some tweaking and it can easily out-turn the dummy, but can never get its sights on it. It doesn't take advantage of this planes' extraordinary rate of roll. That doesn't really make sense, as this aircraft is effortlessly manoeuvrable and when I myself pilot the plane I can mow down the dummy with little effort.

 

Edited by MightyDarkStar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will try creating something. It probably won't be super effective, but that's not so important to me. I might as well try something less orthodox for fun.

One question about the allowed mods:
B9 Pwings v0.40 - wouldn't the unofficial continuation by Crzyrndm (version 2.1) be better?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@MarvinCZ The version we are using works just fine, I have never found any issue with it, I only know of stock aero issues, but FAR handles it very nicely.
What does it have that is better than the version we are using? I may consider it for the next BAD-T, as KSP will update and probably break the current one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@tetryds: Just submitted my entry, vital stats:

Spoiler

Single Engine Monoplane, Light Fighter category
Weight: 3847 Kg           Weight (loaded): 4141 Kg
Wingspan: 13m            Length: 11.4m
78.5 Points, 31 parts

 

Edited by SuicidalInsanity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, tetryds said:

@MarvinCZ The version we are using works just fine, I have never found any issue with it, I only know of stock aero issues, but FAR handles it very nicely.
What does it have that is better than the version we are using? I may consider it for the next BAD-T, as KSP will update and probably break the current one.

It's mostly bugfixes. I actually can't tell what exactly, as I couldn't find any real changelog and what I saw in commit messages seemed too technical for my level of knowledge of the mods (what is IPartMassModifier?). I asked in the mod's thread, so hopefully I'll know more soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How safe is safe? Is having the Kerbal's head sticking out above the fuselage too exposed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.