Building a Triebflügel

[Ketatrypt]

its a old German (bad person era) prototype thing, essentially it is a huge propeller with jets at the tips...

 

But for what ever reason, I cant seem to get lift out of anything like that in kerbal. Is this sort of thing possible? Ive tried a few different designs, but I cant seem to get any lift out of spinning a wing section.

[Snark]

21 minutes ago, Ketatrypt said:

its a old German (bad person era) prototype thing, essentially it is a huge propeller with jets at the tips...

But for what ever reason, I cant seem to get lift out of anything like that in kerbal. Is this sort of thing possible? Ive tried a few different designs, but I cant seem to get any lift out of spinning a wing section.

Well, I managed to build a functional fully-electric whirlybird powered entirely by reaction wheels, which could fly up to (IIRC) around 20 km altitude....

...That was in 0.90, though.  No idea if it would still work in 1.0.5.  Aside from the new aero model, it also relied on "massless parts" being truly massless and dragless.

To fly:

1. turn on SAS
2. hold down the Q key
3. watch as it lifts off and starts to climb
4. suppress giggles

Rotates slowly at first.  As it climbs and the air gets thinner, starts spinning faster and faster.  By the time it reaches its operational ceiling of around 20 km, it's spinning so fast it's practically a blur.

The biggest challenge flying it was that it was somewhat unstable-- it had a tendency to "drift" away from the perfectly vertical, which takes some finesse on the controls to nudge it back to true.

[Rocket In My Pocket]

If you turn on the aerodynamics display with F12 you can see that rotating wings do indeed generate lift in KSP, making a usable plane out of the concept is another thing entirely.

The important thing is that the wing surfaces need to be angled so that they produce lift, look at the "propeller wings" in the picture you provided, notice how they are tilted back slightly from the direction they travel?

The real problem you are going to run into is isolating the body of the aircraft from the rotating section.

[Snark]

5 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

The important thing is that the wing surfaces need to be angled so that they produce lift, look at the "propeller wings" in the picture you provided, notice how they are tilted back slightly from the direction they travel?

This.

When I built the contraption pictured above, and was tweaking it to try to optimize it, part of the challenge was figuring out what AoA to give the wings.  Too low, and they don't generate enough lift.  Too high, and they make too much drag and the contraption can't spin fast enough to make the lift get it off the ground.

I don't know if this is still workable in 1.0.5.  If you're willing to put jets on your wingtips, instead of trying to power it purely electrically like I did, then I expect it ought to work just fine.  However, you'll need to experiment with the right AoA, because it almost certainly won't be exactly what I came up with in 0.90 for the above-pictured craft.

 

4 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

The real problem you are going to run into is isolating the body of the aircraft from the rotating section.

Or just let the whole thing rotate together, and make sure the crew is well-supplied with airsickness bags...

[Ketatrypt]

BAAHAHAHa your right it actually works! 

this is hilarious! (sorry bob, he got sick I think)

 

Ended up having to add more wing, and, also, yea, I had to angle the wings much more then I would have thought. And I still should angle them even more

[Snark]

4 minutes ago, Ketatrypt said:

BAAHAHAHa your right it actually works! 

this is hilarious! (sorry bob, he got sick I think)

Ended up having to add more wing, and, also, yea, I had to angle the wings much more then I would have thought. And I still should angle them even more

I just now tried my own version, it was considerably more modest and runs with Junos.

 

I like the pretty tube-shaped exhaust trail it leaves.

Jeb approves. 

[ForScience6686]

Are you sure the jets aren't providing the lift?  I figured they would remain horizontal while the wings have some tilt.

[SSgt Baloo]

I've made several "flying Catherine's Wheels".

They got pretty high, but had no actual directional control.

This guy has had some success. There's a link to a craft file at the Youtube page for this video in the information below the video.

 

[AlextheBodacious]

I've seen plenty of weird designs, but this is too much. How drunk was the engineer that designed this!?

[Snark]

1 hour ago, ForScience6686 said:

Are you sure the jets aren't providing the lift?  I figured they would remain horizontal while the wings have some tilt.

An excellent question!

Certainly the engines are providing some of the lift.  But far from most of it.

If you look at my design, you'll note that each of the wings has three wing sections in it.  That's the second iteration.  My first iteration had just 2 sections per wing instead of 3, but was otherwise identical (same AoA, Junos at the same angle).

Result:  the one with less wing surface climbed at barely 8 m/s and had to spin really fast to get off the ground, but the one with more wing easily hit 20 m/s and lifted off immediately.

(I rather suspect that it's not just having more wing surface, it's having wing surface farther out from the center so that it's moving faster and thereby generates more lift.)

Anyway, clearly it's getting most of the lift from the wings.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Snark

[ForScience6686]

Thanks snark, just wanted to rule them out.  I'm interested in trying it out myself but can't come up with a good reason to use it... 

[Snark]

1 hour ago, ForScience6686 said:

Thanks snark, just wanted to rule them out.  I'm interested in trying it out myself but can't come up with a good reason to use it... 

There should be a contract:  "Test new airsickness medicine..."

[moogoob]

I think youtuber Jacksepticeye made one of these whirlygig things in a video he did once... either him or Nerdcubed. Though in that case I think the majority of lift WAS engine-based.. the one I made inspired by that video did use wings to some appreciable amount.

[Val]

Had to try it. It works. Even without the engines providing any lift.

Craft file

Edited February 23, 2016 by Val
Craft file

[RizzoTheRat]

 

On ‎22‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 1:08 AM, ForScience6686 said:

Thanks snark, just wanted to rule them out.  I'm interested in trying it out myself but can't come up with a good reason to use it... 

I reckon you should be able to make a stock cargo aircraft like the Fairy Rotordyne

 

Although the Hughes XH-17 looks a lot more Kerbal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHHTUPdwtvQ

 

I reckon you should be able to build a stock STOVL cargo aircraft similar to a Fairy Rotordyne

 

Although the Hughes XH-17 looks a lot more Kerbal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHHTUPdwtvQ

[RizzoTheRat]

Gah, apologies for the repeat post, won't let me edit it for some reason.

[Snark]

5 hours ago, RizzoTheRat said:

Although the Hughes XH-17 looks a lot more Kerbal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHHTUPdwtvQ

OMG, they actually built that thing!  That's just beautiful.  How have I never heard of this thing?

The 1950s, welcome to the Age of Contraptions.  Thank you for sharing that!

And you're right.  It's totally kerbal.  Right down to the Heavy Landing Gear and the ladders sticking out, with jet turbines kinda bolted onto the sides because they sorta fit.

[RizzoTheRat]

I love that kind of stuff, so avoid hijacking this thread...

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/132780-real-world-kerbal-aircraft/