[1.1.3] KSO (Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter) Legacy Packs & Development Updates

[Damaske]

JUST a quick 1.3 update  I attempted to try the station parts and I think the joints are messed up as it basicly flung itself apart once i jumped into space, 

I'll do more testing to see if it was just my design or the mod itself as with doing a clean install with only the required mods (if updated)

[smotheredrun]

9 hours ago, Damaske said:

JUST a quick 1.3 update  I attempted to try the station parts and I think the joints are messed up as it basicly flung itself apart once i jumped into space, 

I'll do more testing to see if it was just my design or the mod itself as with doing a clean install with only the required mods (if updated)

Well that's a new one.  How did the IR Kraken migrate into 1.3 and attach itself to the KSOS?  I'll do some testing tonight

[Damaske]

ok i was wrong the station flung itself apart due to my design. The parts i overlapped started to push against each other and summoned the krakken on it. Here is a perfect stable station.

edited content instead of double post

@smotheredrun I tested the KSO shuttle and the KSO EWBCL shuttle, The KSO shuttle flew ok, but the ascent was a workout to get it to space. On landing it was  a lot better but it lost waaaaaay too much speed and glided waaay too well for a flying brick. The KSO EWBCL was also a workout to get the ascent into space. HOWEVER! the EWBCL lost all control and wanted to fly backward and then went into an unrecoverable spin. 

 

I have also noticed that the RCS is not centered and it likes to drift around. Maybe some sort of RCS adjustment for both shuttles.I have also noticed that the wheels have very very little friction but with max it seemed to work better. The landing gear joints might need tweaking also. I have tested the helicopter, the cop sadan, and rover.  The helicopter wants to flip over way to easy and is very hard to control. The wheels on the rover and sadan need there traction worked on as they are the same as the shuttle wheels. And they want to turn WAY to quick making the sedan cop car roll to easily.

I hope that my findings will help with fixing the mod and getting it into 1.3. Here is my current mod list also.

Spoiler

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Damaske
edited contents instead of double post

[smotheredrun]

On 5/29/2017 at 2:10 PM, Damaske said:

ok i was wrong the station flung itself apart due to my design. The parts i overlapped started to push against each other and summoned the krakken on it. Here is a perfect stable station.

edited content instead of double post

@smotheredrun I tested the KSO shuttle and the KSO EWBCL shuttle, The KSO shuttle flew ok, but the ascent was a workout to get it to space. On landing it was  a lot better but it lost waaaaaay too much speed and glided waaay too well for a flying brick. The KSO EWBCL was also a workout to get the ascent into space. HOWEVER! the EWBCL lost all control and wanted to fly backward and then went into an unrecoverable spin. 

 

I have also noticed that the RCS is not centered and it likes to drift around. Maybe some sort of RCS adjustment for both shuttles.I have also noticed that the wheels have very very little friction but with max it seemed to work better. The landing gear joints might need tweaking also. I have tested the helicopter, the cop sadan, and rover.  The helicopter wants to flip over way to easy and is very hard to control. The wheels on the rover and sadan need there traction worked on as they are the same as the shuttle wheels. And they want to turn WAY to quick making the sedan cop car roll to easily.

I hope that my findings will help with fixing the mod and getting it into 1.3. Here is my current mod list also.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So I missed this post of yours.  

Station Parts:

So far the parts work for me too.

 

The Shuttles:

Yeah, the 2 shuttles are a workout to get to orbit as is.  The patched test version of the EWBCL for 1.2.2 also liked to try and fly backwards on reentry.  I "think" I have a solution... it doesn't involve any editing.  Try making the EWBCL take a shallower reentry, and try this for your engine set up after the deorbit burn:

1. Have a good chunk of fuel left (a good place to start is about 500 dV - I think)

2. Have OMS engines activated, and their angle "decreased" so they're parallel to the wings (Action Group 2 or 4 I believe).

3. Activate only the top SSME (Rclick it and select activate), and leave the angle set as is... do not change it.

4. Make sure rudders are set to Yaw only (unless these instructions fail miserably, then set them to Yaw and Pitch). Wings are set to Roll only. Body flap set to Pitch. 

    NOTE: I find that having it not set in the Brakes Action Group while in the VAB also helps.

5. Maintain around +5 to +10 degrees pitch on reentry (watch your heating) and then be very careful if you need to use S-Turns to slow down... Too aggressive and you'll stall out and start the Backbone Slide  Backwards Boogie.  If your speed does get too low or you start to summon the Flight Krakken, or you're going to end up short of the runway, use your 3 engines set up as described to increase your speed/control.  

Shuttle landing gear:

May have a solution... working on it.

 

The Vehicles:

To start, I've never really used them, so I haven't done any testing with them.  I have no first hand experience with using them since 1.0.5....  That said I know a few things about them:

Regarding wheels:  They're still suffering from the Great Wheel Breakage of KSP 1.1.3.  If someone knows of a solution, please share

@Drew Kerman I noticed that you have the KSOS Space Center Vehicles listed in your mod list for your Twitter/web site KSP Career.  How did you get the wheels to work?

The fire truck:  Pretty sure the water hose still doesn't work, and it hasn't since before 0.90 I believe and it's an animation thing I think so for now that's a no go.

The Kerbal Death Fidget Spinner Contraption Helicopter:

I suck at helicopters...  

Cop car/sedan:

Possible solution for rollovers:  Do MOAR BOOSTERS work?

Vehicle summary:  If anyone wants to take these on, let me know via PM.

Edited May 31, 2017 by smotheredrun
adding stuff

[Drew Kerman]

24 minutes ago, smotheredrun said:

@Drew Kerman I noticed that you have the KSOS Space Center Vehicles listed in your mod list for your Twitter/web site KSP Career.  How did you get the wheels to work?

See, that's the wonderful thing about what I do - you don't actually need wheels to work when all you're doing is taking images and using Vessel Mover Sorry!

[smotheredrun]

1 minute ago, Drew Kerman said:

See, that's the wonderful thing about what I do - you don't actually need wheels to work when all you're doing is taking images and using Vessel Mover Sorry!

ROFLMAO!!!  I'm still laughing at that one!  Alright, I guess that is one solution.  Thanks anyways

 

[smotheredrun]

@Damaske @DStaal @Raptor22 @shdwlrd @Capt. Hunt @Avalon304 and everyone else:  To paraphrase Dr. Farnsworth from Futurama:  "Improving news everyone!"

So after goofing around in 1.3 a bit more, I have the following observations regarding the KSOS pack:

Station Parts:

They work! The categories are all wrong, but I'm on that right now.

The shuttles:

Spoiler

The Mini/Dauntless/Resolute (AKA the small one) flies!  So far, max Payload to 120km x 120km is 2 Tons (close to what it was in 1.0.5/1.1.3 I believe) Basically follow the instructions included in the PDF that comes with the shuttle downloads with the following modifications: 

1. Throttle management.  After gaining approx 500-600m ASL on launch, throttle back to around 2/3.  At 1000m ASL start your pitch back to 10 deg and slowly continue to pitch back until your at about 1/2 your desired final AP at 45 deg pitch. Throttle up just as you start to fight the vehicle for control as the boosters finish buring and you jettison them. Jettison ET when your Pe is around 20 km and continue to circularize with the OMS. 

1A. Disabling the Gimbals on the boosters may also assist with control.  I usually set it to AG 1 in the VAB.

2 . I found that setting the KSO cockpit Reaction Wheel authority to something in the range of 70% for the ascent is a good idea.  Also, disabling the roll authority on the boosters, and the Main Engines helps with the unnecessary rolling/yaw all over the place during launch.  

3. Control Surfaces: body flap on pitch only.  Rudders on Pitch and Yaw only.  Wing elevons on Roll and Pitch only.  Wings (flaps) all set to off.

4. Reentry: follow the instructions in PDF, but increase Body Flap authority to 140-170% to help with pitch control on reentry.

 

KSO EWBCL/Super 25/Ascension (AKA the bigger one) also flies!  Again, so far, max payload to 120km x 120km is around 10 tones also close to 1.0.5/1.1.3 I believe)...

Spoiler

Basically works the same as the Mini, but has greater ascent and reentry stability.  Following the tweaks above should help.

 

Notes on both shuttles for deorbit burns:  Doing your burns near the mountain range/desert next to the crater in the ocean is a good place to start depending upon your orbit height.  The maximum orbit I've reentered with the Mini from is 100km and I over heated (poor Jeb).  Deorbiting from around 70-80km is probably safer (at least for me).

 

The Vehicles:

Haven't tested....

Edited May 31, 2017 by smotheredrun
stoopid internet

[smotheredrun]

Quick little bit of info: had a wonderfully busy weekend and was unable to do anything KSP.  Today my eyes got some epoxy adhesive in them, so I'm typing this with blurry vision.

GGood news is no permanent damage.

Bad news is no KSP and few/zero screens for the next few days.

WWorst news: I don't even get one eyepatch, so nope.... still not a Kerbal Space Pirate

[Jasseji]

On 6.06.2017 at 6:16 AM, smotheredrun said:

Quick little bit of info: had a wonderfully busy weekend and was unable to do anything KSP.  Today my eyes got some epoxy adhesive in them, so I'm typing this with blurry vision.

GGood news is no permanent damage.

Bad news is no KSP and few/zero screens for the next few days.

WWorst news: I don't even get one eyepatch, so nope.... still not a Kerbal Space Pirate

I can always claw one of your eyes out, you'll get a patch definitely then

[smotheredrun]

21 hours ago, Jasseji said:

I can always claw one of your eyes out, you'll get a patch definitely then

Haha um... nope. Thank you.

Now that I can use screens for more than 10 seconds at a time, I have the category patches complete for everything except the vehicles. Sorry, still no love for them yet.

There is other work happening too, and not just by me (more technical than what I can currently do), so we're not there yet.  From what I can see it's a bunch of small details that are somewhat tricky to resolve.

[Jasseji]

Just now, smotheredrun said:

Haha um... nope. Thank you.

Now that I can use screens for more than 10 seconds at a time, I have the category patches complete for everything except the vehicles. Sorry, still no love for them yet.

There is other work happening too, and not just by me (more technical than what I can currently do), so we're not there yet.  From what I can see it's a bunch of small details that are somewhat tricky to resolve.

What about the EX, anything happening in that regard ?

[smotheredrun]

I have no info regarding the development of the EX as I have never been involved in that project.  It would be unwise and inappropriate for me to comment on it. 

[FSXPRO5]

Plz update this for ksp 1.3!!

[Stone Blue]

33 minutes ago, FSXPRO5 said:

Plz update this for ksp 1.3!!

Plz read at LEAST the last few posts in a thread, BEFORE posting requests for updates... Thanx

[smotheredrun]

Before anyone asks, we're getting there. 

At some point "Soon^TM"* there will be an invite for some testers.  Of course, the original testing team will be contacted first.  After that, if more testers are needed, we'll put out an open call.

 

 

Spoiler

*Soon^TM can mean anywhere from now until KSP v 600.  Please be patient.  Thank you!

 

[Raptor22]

Welp, it's been over a year since the last update.

And yet there's still promises of "Soon."

 

I give up. It's never coming, is it?

[goldenpsp]

2 hours ago, Raptor22 said:

Welp, it's been over a year since the last update.

And yet there's still promises of "Soon."

 

I give up. It's never coming, is it?

sounds like a perfect time to dig into how to mod and offer to help.

[NISSKEPCSIM]

2 hours ago, Raptor22 said:

I give up. It's never coming, is it?

Never give up. There's a mod for Fallout 3, called Mothership Zeta Crew, which adds a plot so immersive it's like a whole new game. It hasn't been updated since 2013, and the plot just ended abruptly halfway through. The modder is still working on it, with promises of Soon™. I have been waiting for 4 years.  Is it time to move on?

[Raptor22]

I'm playing in 1.2.2 and I realized that the Super 25 becomes EXTREMELY unstable when all of the fuel is drained. I believe it's because of the shift in CoM. It will flatspin for DAYS if you don't have a little bit of fuel for ballast. For the next update, you might want to try doing something about that.

I hadn't noticed before because I always landed with a bit of fuel left.

Here's a photo from the SPH, where I've drained all of the LF, Oxidizer, and monopropellant: 

Edited July 27, 2017 by Raptor22

[smotheredrun]

FEAR NOT!!!!!!  It's not dead.  Think Monty Python and the Holy Grail, "Bring out your dead!"  "I'm not dead!"  "It's just a flesh wound!"  "But you're missing your arm"  kind of not dead. (Also, watch that movie if you don't know of what I speak - you'll thank me)

Some of us have lives outside of KSP.  Also, again as previously mentioned, I don't want to post "Update: nothing to report" updates, when that would simply just add to my forum post count and serve no real purpose.  I'll leave it at that.  Please be patient.  

Now, with that out of the way:

We're getting "close" with the shuttles, if any of you see anything as a major issue regarding flight characteristics, payload issues, part issues, etc, please post them here and tag me.  If you find anything we haven't already tried to address, we'll see what we can do.  Not looking to add a tonne of workload though right now.  Just looking to make sure that between @Deimos Rast, @Capt. Hunt, @shdwlrd, and myself that we haven't missed any glaring issues.  Please do not tag Nazari for now.

This one below would qualify:

On 7/27/2017 at 3:24 AM, Raptor22 said:

I'm playing in 1.2.2 and I realized that the Super 25 becomes EXTREMELY unstable when all of the fuel is drained. I believe it's because of the shift in CoM. It will flatspin for DAYS if you don't have a little bit of fuel for ballast. For the next update, you might want to try doing something about that.

I hadn't noticed before because I always landed with a bit of fuel left.

Here's a photo from the SPH, where I've drained all of the LF, Oxidizer, and monopropellant: 

Yes, we noticed that too - especially in 1.2.x.  Please see a few posts above (31 May) regarding this phenomenon, and one possible (you'll need to experiment, as you have already begun) solution to this issue - I can land that vehicle with little to zero fuel if I am very very careful.  That said, we may  have a more permanent solution in the works.  However, in KSP, the CoM should be slightly behind the CoL, but yeah that is further back (and higher up) than most of my own spaceplanes and aircraft.  Where is that Mission Flag from?

 

I've been working on some of the station parts for balance purposes, but I've been slammed with work (again, but it's wedding season and that's my busiest time of year) so I'll get back into them when I can.  There is a wonderful user whom is working on the shuttles and they are doing a fantastic job, but again they too are very busy.  "Soon^TM" there will be something that we're satisfied with.

 

[Raptor22]

From what I've heard, the CoL should be in front of the CoM. It is said that "A nose-heavy plane flies poorly; A tail-heavy plane does not fly at all." SAS can counteract the nose-heavy-ness, but tail-heavy-ness results in flat spins for days.

And it sucks that 1.3 just came out, and essentially screwed all of your progress.

[smotheredrun]

31 minutes ago, Raptor22 said:

And it sucks that 1.3 just came out, and essentially screwed all of your progress.

Actually very little has changed regarding the functionality of either vessel between the 2 versions, so not all was lost.  The current available downloads do work (sort of) in 1.3, they're just a pain in the rear to fly.

[Raptor22]

Huh. I mean, the whole craft system seemed to have changed. I can't use craft made in 1.3 in 1.2.2.

Either way, most updates kill mods. 

[Eskandare]

So far I've been tinkering around with KSO a bit. The shuttles are flyable, but the aerodynamics are a bit wonky. Getting to space is a pain I'm playing around with some adjustment to the engines vector and managed to get somewhat a suborbital flight with no loss of crew. where are we at on an update? The land vehicles are working okay, they have some issues with a minor amount of bouncyness, but do roll. 

[Beetlecat]

On 7/22/2017 at 9:28 AM, Raptor22 said:

Welp, it's been over a year since the last update.

And yet there's still promises of "Soon."

 

I give up. It's never coming, is it?

Not with that attitude.

On 7/30/2017 at 1:44 PM, Raptor22 said:

From what I've heard, the CoL should be in front of the CoM. It is said that "A nose-heavy plane flies poorly; A tail-heavy plane does not fly at all." SAS can counteract the nose-heavy-ness, but tail-heavy-ness results in flat spins for days.

And it sucks that 1.3 just came out, and essentially screwed all of your progress.

It's the other way 'round. CoL needs to be behind (and a little above) CoM for stable hands-off flight. The result otherwise is the flat spins you've described.

Instability makes for an agile aircraft, but a shuttle does not have enough control authority to make use of it.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Beetlecat