Nazari1382

[1.1.3] KSO (Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter) Legacy Packs & Development Updates

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@Capt. Hunt Yeah I noticed that there were a lot of bugs in 1.2. I don't know what they've done, but I thought they just added communications. Apparently they did something to the physics. I remember the Super25 being extremely unstable, wobbling all over the place. I had to cheat it into orbit, and it was still buggy there. I'm staying in 1.1.3 until there can be an update. Besides, if I want a communications system I can just use remote tech for the time being. I would like for there to be a patch released. I get that the new EX is going to take a while, but a physics + comms patch shouldn't be too bad.

But then again I only have an elementary understanding of modding. Either way, it probably won't take too long to make a patch.
 

Note: the last time I checked it was when 1.2 was still in its prerelease. I haven't checked recently. Although, it still sounds like that there's some sort of physics bug.

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When I tried the standard KSO in the first 1.2 pre, it worked fine. (Outside of dependancies not being there). Things have clearly changed.

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I gave 1.2 a shot on the weekend with the Ascension and another shuttle mod.  Something has definitely changed regarding shuttle flight.  Will try a rocket or two this week.  Had issues with doing gravity turns and rolls, as in the things rolled all over the place.  All of my launches were under manual flying (as is the norm for me).

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I managed to get the Dauntless into orbit, but it took more Delta-v and a bit more finesse then usual.  I also had to delay the roll maneuver until after LRB sep, from launch to then I had the shuttle upright.  I haven't tried the Super25 with this profile yet.  Still using Gravity Turn instead of MJ.

Edited by Capt. Hunt

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On 10/15/2016 at 7:54 AM, Avalon304 said:

Hey thread:

Helldiver sent this along today. He said it was ok to share, so I though it would make sense to post it here:

The SSME that will help the EX to orbit.

Madre de Dios.

Already got a station docking port ready and waiting for the EX to mosey on up. Also, if I may suggest a thing, an extra 3.75m -> 4x/6x 1.25m mounting plate that'd allow those beauties + the external tank to become the lower stage of an SLS-like would be glorious.

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Are you going to make a compatibility patch for 1.2? Or are you going to wait until the the EX is finished? If the latter, I'd suggest making a patch, since a lot of people would like to use it in 1.2. I haven't updated for that reason.

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Wel..., it seems some of the problems I with both this mod and another shuttle mod were my doing.  Somehow when I updated KSP via Steam I had some shenanigans and "stuff" happened.  

So I did some other "stuff" on purpose and now have a fresh 1.2 install with that other shuttle mod and the KSOS mod and dependancies.

A few flights later (with other shuttle) and I have crazy rolling unless I disable the SRB booster gimbals.  Doing this = less crazy rolling. 

Will try these 2 shuttles in between my gigs this weekend

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10 hours ago, Raptor22 said:

Are you going to make a compatibility patch for 1.2? Or are you going to wait until the the EX is finished? If the latter, I'd suggest making a patch, since a lot of people would like to use it in 1.2. I haven't updated for that reason.

Aside from some aforementioned flight envelope issues, this mod already works in 1.2, as long as you can download the latest versions of it's dependencies.

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Just did 2 flights (writting this then going to sleep) with the Super 25.  Both with zero payload.  

First flight, well, the thing was squirrely.  Pitching and rolling like it was one of those coin-op bucking bronco rides in the bar.  With much consternation, was able to coax it to orbit. Then deorbit and land on KSC runway.  This flight I returned with almost half of my LFO left in my fuselage tank and about 100 units aof Monoprop.

Second flight, started with LRB booster gimbals set to locked (no gimaballing).  Less bad was the result.  The oscillations took longer to manifest.  On a hunch, I stopped fighting the roll, just to see what the thing did.  The shuttle rolled over so that is was on top of the ET, with on a very inclined trajectory.  Again, got it to orbit, made a pass and deorbited ....  It was night over the KSC and I misjudged my deorbit burn and ended up in the ocean.  The Super 25 is now nose heavy in water.  While the Super 25 was designed to return heavy, I had no LFO left in tanks, and roughly 40 monoprop left (I burned it all trying to turn around and fly to Island or KSC).  The orbiter was nose down in the water, first time that has happened.

Watching the navball on both flights, it seems that the SAS is trying to compensate for the gimbals on the SSME's, which in turn try to counter act the SAS compensations.  Turning off SAS while on late reentry and approach to KSC reduces the oscillations, but getting the thing out of a nosedive is tough.

I'll try to launch with SAS disabled the whole time sometime tomorrow.

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I honestly think the flight issues we are seeing are as a result of the SAS system in 1.2 and not a direct fault of either orbiter itself. And Im not sure if theres anything we can do about that...

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On 10/22/2016 at 5:48 AM, Avalon304 said:

I honestly think the flight issues we are seeing are as a result of the SAS system in 1.2 and not a direct fault of either orbiter itself. And Im not sure if theres anything we can do about that...

I would agree that SAS is goofy now.  However, I did another flight with the Super 25, with SAS off on launch...... right into the ground...  after a few vertical barrel rolls.  Jebadiah and Bill were in their glory! And then their graves!

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The SAS has always been weird in KSP, and has moments where it spazzes out. Some times it likes making planes roll back and forth at high speed. Sometimes it gets locked pulling up and yawing right, forcing me to disengage SAS and go without it. Reverting seemed to cure it.

What I'm saying is that I'm not surprised, and that SAS has always had weird bugs, even in stock KSP. 

It seems that SAS wants to overcompensate, and with large ships that can be fatal when using nodes. It acts like a new player with a large ship; impatient, holding down the controls instead of giving it a burst and waiting. Then, when it gets near the node, it pulls hard in the opposite direction, but it is too far gone and misses the node. Then it pulls hard, and the cycle repeats until you cheat and use time warp to stop it. 

I wish we could adjust the corrective speed and/or strength of SAS, so that it doesn't over compensate. That would solve this.

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Perhaps it thinks that the craft's pointing in a different direction than it actually is. This is similar to controlling a shuttle with a probe in the cargo bay, and while the probe wobbles around. The ship is fine, but since the probe wobbles, it thinks the ship's wobbling. 

I dunno. We should consult the devs and ask what changes they made. There are a lot on the forum, after all. Perhaps that'all paint a clearer picture.

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Perhaps it thinks that the craft's pointing in a different direction than it actually is. This is similar to controlling a shuttle with a probe in the cargo bay, and while the probe wobbles around. The ship is fine, but since the probe wobbles, it thinks the ship's wobbling. 

I dunno. We should consult the devs and ask what changes they made. There are a lot on the forum, after all. Perhaps that'all paint a clearer picture.

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Any thoughts? @Avalon304, do you think my theories might be what's wrong, or do you think I'm barking up the wrong tree?

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My personal thoughts about this mod-

First, I have absolutely no problems with it. It's a great mod. The fact that it creates space shuttles with a lot of interesting and very nice looking components is beautiful. It's just that it doesn't have the same feel as it did back in the old days. Since the shuttle is still built for the old atmosphere of 0.90 and previous versions, the engines and SRBs are overpowered in the non-soupy atmosphere of today. What was capable of 120km orbits at the absolute limit back then (without extensions or refueling, such as the auxiliary fuel supply in the mod) today is capable of maybe 300km or even more. (IDK for sure, I haven't tested it myself) 

But it's still an excellent addition to the game, overpowered boosters or not. I love the look of the space station parts and the vehicles are SUPERB. (Still getting the hang of flying the Kerbostar) Would recommend it to anyone who wants stuff like this.

Plus this version still works with 1.2. (The proper release)

Cheers.

 

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So, half of you say it works and half say it doesn't... perhaps it's a conflict between mods.

*sigh* I hate how almost every update puts these mods back at square one. 

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Hi, I recently installed this mod and have been flying the Super 25 orbiter quite a bit.  I'm having an issue that when I apply any thrust in orbit, the craft begins to oscillate.  This is minor at first, but compounds until the orbiter is spinning out of control along its y-axis (assuming you are looking at the shuttle from the rear) and have to shut down the engines and time warp to regain control.  I have SAS and RCS engaged at these times and there is a payload in the cargo bay.  

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

Edited by Adam.A
spelling error

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I am quite positive several posts throughout this topic have covered that in one form or another. It has to do with the COM (Centre of Mass) and the orbiter's angle of thrust (this is a very basic description).

This quirk is present in most shuttle designs, even in stock ones you build.

Your best bet will be to do a quick search using the search bar at the top right of this page, using COM or Centre (Center) of Mass and thrust as keywords.  You'll find some good ways of dealing with this.  I have done this myself to come up with ways to maneuver either shuttle in orbit.

There are quite a few YouTube vids covering this too.  Shadowzone and Scott Manley's channels (among other's) have excellent vids on these

On 31/10/2016 at 8:17 AM, Raptor22 said:

So, half of you say it works and half say it doesn't... 

Perhaps it's the differences between our piloting abilities (or in my case the lack thereof)?

Edited by smotheredrun
Because science!

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I have a 1.1.3 question:

In this re-entry

... around 26:20 minute mark, the shuttle blows due to overheating, but how is that possible.

My angle was very shallow (apoapsis 74k, periapsis 41k), and i was trying to bleed of as much energy as possible early on, and if you observe, you will notice that the cabin just before it blew was not even hot, and then it got hot in 1 second. Did any of you have such issue ?

 

If not, can anyone show me the correct re-entry with KSO orbiter I would really be grateful

Edited by Grunf911

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Stepping away from the shuttle parts for a moment: In the station parts pack, anyone else having issues with not being able to get science out of a KerbalLab?  I can load it up with experimental data and process that data just fine - but clicking 'transmit science' runs through a transmission sequence without actually moving the science.  I'm still in 1.1.3.

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On 11/4/2016 at 5:33 AM, Grunf911 said:

I have a 1.1.3 question:

In this re-entry

... around 26:20 minute mark, the shuttle blows due to overheating, but how is that possible.

My angle was very shallow (apoapsis 74k, periapsis 41k), and i was trying to bleed of as much energy as possible early on, and if you observe, you will notice that the cabin just before it blew was not even hot, and then it got hot in 1 second. Did any of you have such issue ?

 

If not, can anyone show me the correct re-entry with KSO orbiter I would really be grateful

We all mourn the losses of Jeb, Bob, and Pablo.  I would start by leaving your vertical control surfaces undeployed, I think this contributed to the side slip.  The engine block mount has an airbrake which is tied to an action group.  The wing flaps are also tied to action groups, but my experience is they are not as effective in 1.1.3 as they were in past versions, I am not totally sure why.

The KSO download also has a PDF which contains deorbiting instructions.  Making your burn near or before the mountains at that desert you mentioned at 24:25, disable Tragectories (trust me), and have your periapsis drop so that it is in the ocean near that Korean Peninsula looking landmass.  There are some good map view screenshots in the PDF describing this.  

It took me several iterations of the KSO Resolute (the one you flew here) to even get it to land on solid ground.  Sometimes I have to use the 2 OMS and the central SSME to get the thing under some kind of control on the way down.  If you do make it to solid ground (runway if you are lucky), be prepared for the Jeb does a crazy spin out as the shuttle comes to a stop.....  (broken wheels bug prevalent in 1.1.3)

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On 11/5/2016 at 5:34 AM, UncleCorgi said:

Anyone have a .90 Version of the KSO mod? If not can the mod creator downgrade a copy?

 

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