[1.12.x] [BG] HabTech2 | Stockalike ISS Parts | 1.0.0 - The Final Update

[TimothyC]

3 hours ago, benjee10 said:

Small truss is a definite yes! As for the second part some screenshots might help, I'm having trouble picturing what you're suggesting

Not a problem. This is what I'd like to see. I've used a radial attachment with a Common Berthing Port to attach the Truss to the rest of the station, but the offset makes it look funny (I'm trying to get the truss centered):



The other option that would be nice (as an alternate) is if the truss was offset in the other direction (removing a Zero truss, and going for an even number of segments:



Yes, I am working from the 1989 Baseline, which isn't far from the 1991 baseline to be fair.

Edited April 4, 2016 by TimothyC

[Deimos Rast]

For the people having problems with spacedock, do you having something like the Ghostery addon to your browser or something that blocks analytics tracking? Spacedock wouldn't let me download until I enabled analytics tracking.

Also, I would love a github link, although I suppose if it's a new repo it doesn't do me much good (since I'm looking for an older version), as I'm trying to make this work in 1.0.5. I know I know, it says 1.1 in the title. If you're curious (and I know it's not your responsibility anymore), the game hangs on loading on PMA and the log says something about node1's transform definition (which on first blush seems fine, I think). Guess I save this one for the update.

Cheers (and parts look lovely by the way).

[TimothyC]

6 minutes ago, Deimos Rast said:

Also, I would love a github link, although I suppose if it's a new repo it doesn't do me much good (since I'm looking for an older version), as I'm trying to make this work in 1.0.5.

I've loaded the latest version in 1.0.5 on Windows with no issues. I do however remove all of the patch options (Just the parts for me)

Edited April 4, 2016 by TimothyC

[Deimos Rast]

2 hours ago, TimothyC said:

I've loaded the latest version in 1.0.5 on Windows with no issues. I do however remove all of the patch options (Just the parts for me)

 

Interesting; I usually do too, it might be the CLS patch, since does specifically refer to the nodes. Did you have to do anything with the "tags" in the configs, or do those work just fine? I commented them out just to be safe.

[benjee10]

13 hours ago, ZobrAA said:

Yes, I meant seat position and direction of sight like this:

This way you can observe vehicle hull in EVA right away, without switching to one of the window view.

My only concern is that in a vertical position, you won't be able to access the rear windows easily since the kerbal's head will block them. I'll do some experimenting. Certainly I will be moving the position of the kerbal slightly up into the cupola in order to allow better visibility. 

9 hours ago, TimothyC said:

Not a problem. This is what I'd like to see. I've used a radial attachment with a Common Berthing Port to attach the Truss to the rest of the station, but the offset makes it look funny (I'm trying to get the truss centered):



The other option that would be nice (as an alternate) is if the truss was offset in the other direction (removing a Zero truss, and going for an even number of segments:



Yes, I am working from the 1989 Baseline, which isn't far from the 1991 baseline to be fair.

The second configuration is most practical in terms of versatility as the first one would require a non-standard offset on the nodes whereas the second one would have the nodes offset at 1.875m intervals which is a lot friendlier I feel. Will implement for the next update, pretty easy to do!

5 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

Also, I would love a github link, although I suppose if it's a new repo it doesn't do me much good (since I'm looking for an older version), as I'm trying to make this work in 1.0.5. I know I know, it says 1.1 in the title. If you're curious (and I know it's not your responsibility anymore), the game hangs on loading on PMA and the log says something about node1's transform definition (which on first blush seems fine, I think). Guess I save this one for the update.

Cheers (and parts look lovely by the way).

Strange, I don't know why that would be. There's nothing specifically about the PMA I can think of that would be causing that unless it's just a generic Unity 5 -> Unity 4 compatibility issue. 

Got burned out on making parts and doing Unity stuff today so I started work on proper IVAs. These are going to be pretty memory intensive but Unity 5 doesn't care. May include an alternate version with the very basic IVAs currently implemented for people who aren't really into IVAs. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by benjee10

[TimothyC]

1 hour ago, benjee10 said:

The second configuration is most practical in terms of versatility as the first one would require a non-standard offset on the nodes whereas the second one would have the nodes offset at 1.875m intervals which is a lot friendlier I feel. Will implement for the next update, pretty easy to do!

Awesome and thank you. I had considered that it might be easy (a simple duplication of a shroud to a new node), but would have understood a "Buzz off".

As for the IVA, a nice clean simple one is always nice to see.

[Gryphorim]

Is the cupola going to get an internal light? It's be nice to see some light in those windows in the dark. 

[Deimos Rast]

I like the simple iva option honestly, rarely use them, as long as it gives a portrait, I'm happy

[benjee10]

Cupola shutters:

[MrMeeb]

A more suitable title for HabTech would be "Benjee's Rep Gathering Machine"  

[cxg2827]

Wow, great work on this pack! Coming together really fast.

 

[akron]

2 minutes ago, MrMeeb said:

A more suitable title for HabTech would be "Benjee's Rep Gathering Machine"  

Ya, speaking of that, how do you rep?

[Andem]

IVAs Please! I use them a lot, and I have an active all IVA career game going, and I'm waiting for some IVAs on this mod to use it there.

[MrMeeb]

54 minutes ago, akron said:

Ya, speaking of that, how do you rep?

Hit the "Like" button on the bottom right of the post  

Try it on all my posts... 

Edited April 5, 2016 by MrMeeb

[Sgt.Shutesie]

 

It's looking great so far, I'm really happy to see the future product. I have some questions first though:

Will solar arrays get the radiator with them? Since they rotate with the array.

What is the method of joining the 2 solar arrays on the end of a Truss? [Array][some sort of part][Array][Truss]

How in the world do I assemble this? 

I probably have more that I've forgotten already.

[SpaceMouse]

Awesome pack. Solar array is gorgeous. More parts need IVA's. Could i make one small suggestion? I get that its a ISS analog, and it's probably sharing textures to save ram, but could i request a little bit of differentiation to tell them apart easier? Perhaps a small bit of color coding?

[Sgt.Shutesie]

8 minutes ago, SpaceMouse said:

Awesome pack. Solar array is gorgeous. More parts need IVA's. Could i make one small suggestion? I get that its a ISS analog, and it's probably sharing textures to save ram, but could i request a little bit of differentiation to tell them apart easier? Perhaps a small bit of color coding?

Their names are coded to to like the real world counterpart. However, I think an alignment code of like arrows would be nice. 

[SpaceMouse]

6 minutes ago, Sgt.Shutesie said:

Their names are coded to to like the real world counterpart. However, I think an alignment code of like arrows would be nice. 

I more meant visual differentiation then in the names. Although i imagine NASA wasn't terribly concerned with making the outside of the ISS aesthetically pleasing.

Edited April 5, 2016 by SpaceMouse

[Z3R0_0NL1N3]

 

I finally got around to playing with this, and it is indeed glorious! However, if I can give a bit of feedback, the things I would suggest are: a docking mechanism unique to the trusses so that they look like one large piece when attached, rather than having CBMs between the segments. Also, a part to properly allow attaching the truss to the top of Destiny is definitely necessary! (The real thing looks to be attached by struts. More struts! I just can't seem to tell if it's attached to Z1 or not.) A part for spacing between the solar panels would be great too, like S6/P6; as well as, I guess something to attach them, like the S5/P5 segments. Finally, I agree that the modules need to have some distinguishing. I wouldn't mind part bloating or a bunch of slightly altered clone parts if it means there are modules with distinct functions; especially if KIS/TAC compatability. For one instance, a modified Destiny-analogue to be a Kibō-analogue by giving it a hatch on the top.

Otherwise, I found some reference images!

For the S0 Truss/Destiny attachment, look here. It's a bit dark and hard to make out in some parts, but in general it's just sorta stuck on there. Not sure how to make this work without a niche docking part to stick on top of Destiny, but personally I'd much rather have that than using CBMs for everything.

Spoiler

Here's if you want to look at the ends of the truss sections. It's not much on the end of that, but it can give you some inspiration for a attachment mechanism.

Spoiler

So, heh, sorry, I know this is long, but, uh, I like making suggestions I guess. Anyway, seriously I've waited forever for a truly stockalike ISS mod, so this is all amazing to me!

 

EDIT: By the way, does anyone know what actually those "bullseye" dots on the ISS are for?

Edited April 6, 2016 by Z3R0_0NL1N3
Added a question/thought

[benjee10]

17 hours ago, Sgt.Shutesie said:

 

It's looking great so far, I'm really happy to see the future product. I have some questions first though:

Will solar arrays get the radiator with them? Since they rotate with the array.

What is the method of joining the 2 solar arrays on the end of a Truss? [Array][some sort of part][Array][Truss]

How in the world do I assemble this? 

I probably have more that I've forgotten already.

Potentially will add radiators to the solar array truss, it's just a bit off a faff really with setting up all the colliders and animations and hoping Unity doesn't just give up on you completely. 

There is a planned hexagonal truss part to be used to connect the solar arrays. 

Assembly well... I'm sure you'll find a way! 

13 hours ago, SpaceMouse said:

Awesome pack. Solar array is gorgeous. More parts need IVA's. Could i make one small suggestion? I get that its a ISS analog, and it's probably sharing textures to save ram, but could i request a little bit of differentiation to tell them apart easier? Perhaps a small bit of color coding?

I'm kind of wanting to avoid colour coding in that way and with so much texture sharing going on it would be a massive texture bloat to implement. I'm trying to add variation to the IVAs though so that in cutaway view the differences will be obvious:

2 hours ago, Z3R0_0NL1N3 said:

 

I finally got around to playing with this, and it is indeed glorious! However, if I can give a bit of feedback, the things I would suggest are: a docking mechanism unique to the trusses so that they look like one large piece when attached, rather than having CBMs between the segments. Also, a part to properly allow attaching the truss to the top of Destiny is definitely necessary! (The real thing looks to be attached by struts. More struts! I just can't seem to tell if it's attached to Z1 or not.) A part for spacing between the solar panels would be great too, like S6/P6; as well as, I guess something to attach them, like the S5/P5 segments. Finally, I agree that the modules need to have some distinguishing. I wouldn't mind part bloating or a bunch of slightly altered clone parts if it means there are modules with distinct functions; especially if KIS/TAC compatability. For one instance, a modified Destiny-analogue to be a Kibō-analogue by giving it a hatch on the top.

Otherwise, I found some reference images!

For the S0 Truss/Destiny attachment, look here. It's a bit dark and hard to make out in some parts, but in general it's just sorta stuck on there. Not sure how to make this work without a niche docking part to stick on top of Destiny, but personally I'd much rather have that than using CBMs for everything.

  Reveal hidden contents

Here's if you want to look at the ends of the truss sections. It's not much on the end of that, but it can give you some inspiration for a attachment mechanism.

  Reveal hidden contents

So, heh, sorry, I know this is long, but, uh, I like making suggestions I guess. Anyway, seriously I've waited forever for a truly stockalike ISS mod, so this is all amazing to me!

 

EDIT: By the way, does anyone know what actually those "bullseye" dots on the ISS are for?

Truss-specific docking connectors are planned, probably next version or the one after that. As for connecting the truss to Destiny, I really want to avoid single use parts like that (and also I can see problems with clearance in a mk3 cargo bay - I want everything to be launchable on board a shuttle, and struts sticking out of either Destiny or a truss segment like that would probably clip through it). When KAS gets updated you'll be able to add the struts while in flight (yay for giving EVAs purpose!) The truss does indeed connect to Destiny and not to Z1. 

Also what version are you running? The last two versions have had multiple variations of parts as you suggest (three types of lab, Destiny, Kibo and Columbus) as well as stuff like MPLM and a large habitat. 

Bullseye dots are I believe for targeting so that their precise alignment can be worked out for when the robotic arm grabs them.

[SpaceMouse]

2 hours ago, benjee10 said:

I'm kind of wanting to avoid colour coding in that way and with so much texture sharing going on it would be a massive texture bloat to implement. I'm trying to add variation to the IVAs though so that in cutaway view the differences will be 

I've started modeling and i have two parts sharing one texture, I was going to dedicate one part of the texture to each mesh. Might work for you. Obviously texture resolution will suffer slightly but it only needs to be a small part. Say,  a label or something. 

Cutaway should make it pretty obvious though. 

Edited April 6, 2016 by SpaceMouse

[Z3R0_0NL1N3]

18 hours ago, benjee10 said:

Potentially will add radiators to the solar array truss, it's just a bit off a faff really with setting up all the colliders and animations and hoping Unity doesn't just give up on you completely. 

There is a planned hexagonal truss part to be used to connect the solar arrays. 

Truss-specific docking connectors are planned, probably next version or the one after that. As for connecting the truss to Destiny, I really want to avoid single use parts like that (and also I can see problems with clearance in a mk3 cargo bay - I want everything to be launchable on board a shuttle, and struts sticking out of either Destiny or a truss segment like that would probably clip through it). When KAS gets updated you'll be able to add the struts while in flight (yay for giving EVAs purpose!) The truss does indeed connect to Destiny and not to Z1. 

Also what version are you running? The last two versions have had multiple variations of parts as you suggest (three types of lab, Destiny, Kibo and Columbus) as well as stuff like MPLM and a large habitat. 

Bullseye dots are I believe for targeting so that their precise alignment can be worked out for when the robotic arm grabs them.

Thanks for the detailed response. All of these things sound great! And yeah, I guess I was on the wrong version. My fault. Will the truss docking mechanisms allow P6 to attach to the top of Z1, the way it was in the early construction? And, I personally still want a Destiny/S0 connector. I'm trying to think of a way to do it that doesn't make it super niche. My idea is a small truss piece that connects to a 2.5m part, and allows radial attaching sort of like the stock one does, but is instead designed to be a square, and uses trusses for its aesthetics. This might require a small square docking port to get it to connect, but I think it could be a part that's useful in other contexts too, which is always good.

I've included a bit of a mock-up explaining my ideas.

Spoiler

As well as the radial attachment being useful for other contexts, thin square docking ports could allow interesting designs as well. 

In addition to my suggestion about attaching to Z1, P6 was docked to the top of it at one point. I plan on constructing my ISS following the assembly sequence from real life, so these sort of things matter to me. Apologies for all the requests. But it would help if ISS geometry was more uniform.

Spoiler

And obviously the S/P1 pieces do not allow connect properly

 

Also, I saw what you did. 

 

Edited April 7, 2016 by Z3R0_0NL1N3

[davidy12]

@benjee10: What about the Cupola IVA? Will it mirror the design of the stock one?

 

Also, Nicholas Cage XD

[benjee10]

On 6 April 2016 at 4:02 PM, SpaceMouse said:

I've started modeling and i have two parts sharing one texture, I was going to dedicate one part of the texture to each mesh. Might work for you. Obviously texture resolution will suffer slightly but it only needs to be a small part. Say,  a label or something. 

Cutaway should make it pretty obvious though. 

It's just difficult with the particular way everything's set up right now. I'll look into it though because I'm thinking about how to add windows to certain modules which would require some partially shared/partially unique textures so it could be done as part of that.

19 hours ago, Z3R0_0NL1N3 said:

Thanks for the detailed response. All of these things sound great! And yeah, I guess I was on the wrong version. My fault. Will the truss docking mechanisms allow P6 to attach to the top of Z1, the way it was in the early construction? And, I personally still want a Destiny/S0 connector. I'm trying to think of a way to do it that doesn't make it super niche. My idea is a small truss piece that connects to a 2.5m part, and allows radial attaching sort of like the stock one does, but is instead designed to be a square, and uses trusses for its aesthetics. This might require a small square docking port to get it to connect, but I think it could be a part that's useful in other contexts too, which is always good.

I've included a bit of a mock-up explaining my ideas.

  Reveal hidden contents

As well as the radial attachment being useful for other contexts, thin square docking ports could allow interesting designs as well. 

In addition to my suggestion about attaching to Z1, P6 was docked to the top of it at one point. I plan on constructing my ISS following the assembly sequence from real life, so these sort of things matter to me. Apologies for all the requests. But it would help if ISS geometry was more uniform.

Yeah that could work pretty well actually, I'll try it out. 

I don't believe anything but the P6 assembly was ever docked to the top of Z1, and that has a square profile which doesn't match up with Z1, so they're not really meant to line up uniformly. In real life the Z1 truss doesn't match with the form factor of the rest of the truss anyway. 

19 hours ago, Z3R0_0NL1N3 said:

Also, I saw what you did. 

 

Rumbled 

Just now, davidy12 said:

@benjee10: What about the Cupola IVA? Will it mirror the design of the stock one?

 

Also, Nicholas Cage XD

Aiming for a mix between the stock one and the Prokjet stylised realism I have going on at the moment. 

 

Here's some progress:

Lab, airlock and mini logistics module IVAs are pretty much done pending some minor tweaks.

Stockalike solar array alt texture:

I feel I should also talk about where I see the future of the mod going. For 0.1.6, which will be the last 'alpha' release, I'm planning the following changelog:

• Finished complete overhaul of IVAs
• Finished all parts necessary to build ISS truss
• Radiators built into solar array wing assembly

Beyond that I will consider the mod ready for release in the 'Add-on Releases' forum, hopefully in time for the proper release of 1.1. From then on it's going to be focusing on balancing for a stock career game (& integration with other mods as they become updated for 1.1) and particularly on giving each part a real purpose in career mode. Obviously you can't do that for everything (PMAs, 0.937 docking ports, etc. will be pretty much purely aesthetic choices), but wherever possible I feel there should be a reason for modules to exist. 

The big problem is the solar arrays, since they produce such a ridiculous amount of power they're only really needed if you have a really big ion ship or something like that. So obviously we need something that requires a huge amount of power. I'm thinking that each of the lab modules should have some kind of feature which makes them a massive power-hog, so you'll need to build a solar array truss to provide for them if you want the benefits they give. 

I've already started implementing some of my ideas in the (very basic) science experiments that the labs currently have. Each lab will have a different specialism; whereas the stock MPL is a generic lab, each of the HabTech labs will fill a different role and have different experiments built into them. I don't know whether it's possible or not but I'd like experiments to take electric charge to run. These experiments will have little to no transmission value and require multiple runs to gain the full science amount, necessitating multiple trips to the space station, removing the experiment data and placing it in a return vehicle (unless you want to ship the entire lab down to Kerbin with you each time). 

Columbus - Bioscience Lab
Columbus will be a biological laboratory. Its experiments will be stuff like physiology checks and cell growth. It will also feature a greenhouse when paired with USI LS or TAC, which will take up a fair bit of power. 

Destiny - Thermal Lab
The Destiny experiments revolve around a combustion chamber and a deep-freezer. 

Kibo - Materials Lab
Kobo deals with materials so experiments like crystal growth and nanotechnology observations. I'm also hoping to give Kibo a special resource converter which will take a new resource called 'Samples' (which has zero value) and slowly convert it into a highly valuable resource called 'Processed Samples' or something similar. This process will take a huge amount of power and generate a lot of heat but the resulting resource would be extremely valuable. This gives stations an end-game function as a way of generating a steady cash flow without contract grinding.

Another potential idea is to have Destiny be the Sample processor, with the resulting resource then being able to be processed further in either Kibo or Columbus, giving a different resource for each lab. 

There would also be additional science parts such as the Alpha Magnetic Spectrometer and Exposed Facilities for the JEM and Columbus. 

Let me know what you guys think!

[davidy12]

HOLY F*$K!!!

Those IVAs ARE GORGEOUS!!!!!

May I ask, after this, what's next? Are you going to work on DIRECT again. Because after seeing this, I want to see some more vehicles (IE: A new "modern" lander would be AMAZING).