montferrer Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Hi guys! I'm trying to land on Eve and refueling there with ore from de surface. But I don't know why, while entering atmosphere (at 80k meters aprox) my two 'Drill-O-Matic' Mining Excavator overheat and explode, making the rocket unable to refuel. Here's a picture of the rocket, does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Thanks! http://imgur.com/IocxELw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geschosskopf Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) Welcome aboard. Probably because you lack any radiators. If you right-click on the drills (and ISRU) in the VAB, you'll see they require cooling. Then look at the radiators with the right-click and you'll see they have a "core heat Xfer" rating. That must match the cooling required of the heat-generating parts. Also note that fixed radiators suck so only use the retractable types if at all possible. Edited March 9, 2016 by Geschosskopf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gojira1000 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Drills are very heat-sensitive during re-entry. If you can wedge them into a bay, that fixes most of the problems, usually. In fact, IIRC, there's actually a heat-related drill bug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edax Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 2 hours ago, montferrer said: Hi guys! I'm trying to land on Eve and refueling there with ore from de surface. But I don't know why, while entering atmosphere (at 80k meters aprox) my two 'Drill-O-Matic' Mining Excavator overheat and explode, making the rocket unable to refuel. Here's a picture of the rocket, does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Thanks! http://imgur.com/IocxELw You can kinda cram a drill-o-matic in a mk-2 cargo bay if you put in at an angle, or you try and use the mini drills and put them in a mk1 cargo to shield them from the heat, but the drills have to be able to deploy out of the cargohold and hit the ground, so that could be tricky to design around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snark Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 The easiest and least-intrusive-to-your-existing-design way might be to just put a fairing around them. Stick a 2.5m fairing base under the drills, in between that 1.25m decoupler and that 3.75m heat shield. Build the fairing up so that it closes around the ore tank just above where the drills are. Set up the staging so that you pop the fairing just before you activate the decoupler (i.e. after the hot part of reentry is finished). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montferrer Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) 18 hours ago, Edax said: You can kinda cram a drill-o-matic in a mk-2 cargo bay if you put in at an angle, or you try and use the mini drills and put them in a mk1 cargo to shield them from the heat, but the drills have to be able to deploy out of the cargohold and hit the ground, so that could be tricky to design around. Thanks for your help! I tried with a Mk3 Cargo Bay CRG-25, because the other ones were too small. But the excavators also exploded after overheating: http://imgur.com/WfbkO1n Then I tried the mini drills, but released that the place were I want to land hasn't enough ore to make the drills functioning. Any solution? Maybe should I close the bay from above? Edited March 10, 2016 by montferrer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montferrer Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) 15 hours ago, Snark said: The easiest and least-intrusive-to-your-existing-design way might be to just put a fairing around them. Stick a 2.5m fairing base under the drills, in between that 1.25m decoupler and that 3.75m heat shield. Build the fairing up so that it closes around the ore tank just above where the drills are. Set up the staging so that you pop the fairing just before you activate the decoupler (i.e. after the hot part of reentry is finished). Hi Snark! Thank you for answering! I tried it, but I was unable to close the fairing: http://imgur.com/A1TsDcR Maybe you were not referring to this, or there is an easier way to build it. What can I do? Edited March 10, 2016 by montferrer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montferrer Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 19 hours ago, Geschosskopf said: Welcome aboard. Probably because you lack any radiators. If you right-click on the drills (and ISRU) in the VAB, you'll see they require cooling. Then look at the radiators with the right-click and you'll see they have a "core heat Xfer" rating. That must match the cooling required of the heat-generating parts. Also note that fixed radiators suck so only use the retractable types if at all possible. Hi Geschosskopf, thank you for your welcoming. I put two "Radiator Panel (edge)" but the excavators exploded. I searched at the VAB for the "core heat Xfer" but did not see it in the mining excavator. And I'm not sure if I can use retractable types because of the drag while entering atmosphere. Any suggestions? Should I use bigger radiators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montferrer Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) 19 hours ago, Gojira1000 said: Drills are very heat-sensitive during re-entry. If you can wedge them into a bay, that fixes most of the problems, usually. In fact, IIRC, there's actually a heat-related drill bug? I put them into a bay, but exploded again for overheating, as it can be seen in this pic: http://imgur.com/WfbkO1n Maybe should I close the bay from above? Edited March 10, 2016 by montferrer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gojira1000 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 hour ago, montferrer said: I put them into a bay, but exploded again for overheating, as it can be seen in this pic: http://imgur.com/WfbkO1n Maybe should I close the bay from above? The bayed one I managed to keep from exploding was in an SSTO - so it was mounted in a Mk2 cargo bay at a right angle to the stack, but was still facing "into the heat" during aerobraking. Survived a lot of extreme heating many, many times. I really do think there's a bug in there somewhere. That SSTO has folding radiators that were never deployed during re-entry, come to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snark Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 1 hour ago, montferrer said: Hi Snark! Thank you for answering! I tried it, but I was unable to close the fairing: http://imgur.com/A1TsDcR Maybe you were not referring to this, or there is an easier way to build it. What can I do? Yes,that's pretty much exactly what I was suggesting. The fairing editor can be a little finicky sometimes, so it might be that what I suggested simply isn't possible. However, before giving up, did you try closing the fairing a little bit lower? In the screenshot, you're trying to close it pretty high up, so that the slanted sides of the top of the fairing are clipping into the four radial stacks that surround it-- maybe that's what it's complaining about. What does it do if you try to close it a bit lower down, so that it doesn't clip the other stacks? 1 hour ago, montferrer said: I put two "Radiator Panel (edge)" but the excavators exploded. I searched at the VAB for the "core heat Xfer" but did not see it in the mining excavator. And I'm not sure if I can use retractable types because of the drag while entering atmosphere. Any suggestions? Should I use bigger radiators? Actually, in this case, I doubt radiators will help you. In general you need radiators while using drills (which I suspect is mainly what Geschosskopf was talking about). However, radiators tend to be not super useful during reentry-- they just can't deal with the sort of colossal heat load that you get during a hot reentry. So whatever the solution to your problem turns out to be, I doubt you'll be able to radiate your way out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montferrer Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 56 minutes ago, Snark said: Yes,that's pretty much exactly what I was suggesting. The fairing editor can be a little finicky sometimes, so it might be that what I suggested simply isn't possible. However, before giving up, did you try closing the fairing a little bit lower? In the screenshot, you're trying to close it pretty high up, so that the slanted sides of the top of the fairing are clipping into the four radial stacks that surround it-- maybe that's what it's complaining about. What does it do if you try to close it a bit lower down, so that it doesn't clip the other stacks? Actually, in this case, I doubt radiators will help you. In general you need radiators while using drills (which I suspect is mainly what Geschosskopf was talking about). However, radiators tend to be not super useful during reentry-- they just can't deal with the sort of colossal heat load that you get during a hot reentry. So whatever the solution to your problem turns out to be, I doubt you'll be able to radiate your way out of it. Yes, I tried closing it a little bit lower, without sucess. It cannot close because it touches the ore tank, I think. And as you say, putting more radiators does not help very much. But... I don't wanna give up! There must be a way of landing ore excavators on Eve! Any more ideas? 1 hour ago, Gojira1000 said: The bayed one I managed to keep from exploding was in an SSTO - so it was mounted in a Mk2 cargo bay at a right angle to the stack, but was still facing "into the heat" during aerobraking. Survived a lot of extreme heating many, many times. I really do think there's a bug in there somewhere. That SSTO has folding radiators that were never deployed during re-entry, come to think. So we can say it's a bug? And therefore no solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nich Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Cargo bays that are not closed treat the internal contents as if they were radially attached. It has to be closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starhawk Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) There appears to be a bug where the heat system seems to think the drill is deployed even when it's not. I made a craft with drills protected by heat shields and they refused to survive Eve entry, even after I tried all sorts of configurations. On a hunch, I rotated the drills upside down so the bits pointed upwards. They didn't even get hot. In the end, I put heat shields on the end of I-beams so that they would be low enough to protect the drills. I made a thread about it. NathanKell's response in the thread seemed to indicate that the bug lies in the drills. RoverDude did not respond when I pinged him in the thread. Happy landings! Edited March 10, 2016 by Starhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snark Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 25 minutes ago, montferrer said: Yes, I tried closing it a little bit lower, without sucess. It cannot close because it touches the ore tank, I think. Hm. That ought to work. The whole point is that it's supposed to touch the ore tank, and seal to it. The fairings are supposed to be closeable around cylindrical objects. I've done this successfully without a problem, though admittedly I was closing around a fuel tank and not an ore tank. Just out of curiosity, what happens if you stick something cylindrical on top of the ore tank (say, a short LFO fuel tank) and try closing to that? Still doesn't work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geschosskopf Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 9 hours ago, montferrer said: Hi Geschosskopf, thank you for your welcoming. I put two "Radiator Panel (edge)" but the excavators exploded. I searched at the VAB for the "core heat Xfer" but did not see it in the mining excavator. And I'm not sure if I can use retractable types because of the drag while entering atmosphere. Any suggestions? Should I use bigger radiators? Well, upon further review, it appears your problem here is exploding in flight, not on the ground :). Still you need radiators to run the things so you need to add those to the design anyway once you solve the exploding-in-flight problem. For future reference, parts that produce heat (like drills and ISRU) have a "Cooling Required" or "Required Cooling" (can't remember which) and radiators have a "Core Heat XFer" stat. Both are measured in kW. What you do is add up the "Cooling Required" for all the heat-producing parts and then make sure the combined "Core Heat XFer" of the radiators adds up to the same amount. Retractable radiators can be placed anywhere on the ship but the fixed ones can be no more than 2 parts away from the heat-producer. Also, because fixed radiators can't pivot away from sunlight, you usually need excess "Core Heat XFer" capacity (like about 25-30%) if you used fixed ones. You find these numbers by right-clicking on the part's icon in the parts list, NOT on parts already attached to the rocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montferrer Posted March 11, 2016 Author Share Posted March 11, 2016 On 10/3/2016 at 8:56 PM, Snark said: Hm. That ought to work. The whole point is that it's supposed to touch the ore tank, and seal to it. The fairings are supposed to be closeable around cylindrical objects. I've done this successfully without a problem, though admittedly I was closing around a fuel tank and not an ore tank. Just out of curiosity, what happens if you stick something cylindrical on top of the ore tank (say, a short LFO fuel tank) and try closing to that? Still doesn't work? Solved! What I've done is to close the fairing in a vessel apart, that was only composed of the ore tank and the excavators, and then merging it to the big rocket. Thank you very much! 19 hours ago, Geschosskopf said: Well, upon further review, it appears your problem here is exploding in flight, not on the ground :). Still you need radiators to run the things so you need to add those to the design anyway once you solve the exploding-in-flight problem. For future reference, parts that produce heat (like drills and ISRU) have a "Cooling Required" or "Required Cooling" (can't remember which) and radiators have a "Core Heat XFer" stat. Both are measured in kW. What you do is add up the "Cooling Required" for all the heat-producing parts and then make sure the combined "Core Heat XFer" of the radiators adds up to the same amount. Retractable radiators can be placed anywhere on the ship but the fixed ones can be no more than 2 parts away from the heat-producer. Also, because fixed radiators can't pivot away from sunlight, you usually need excess "Core Heat XFer" capacity (like about 25-30%) if you used fixed ones. You find these numbers by right-clicking on the part's icon in the parts list, NOT on parts already attached to the rocket. Ok, thank you very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 On 09/03/2016 at 7:53 PM, montferrer said: Hi guys! I'm trying to land on Eve and refueling there with ore from de surface. But I don't know why, while entering atmosphere (at 80k meters aprox) my two 'Drill-O-Matic' Mining Excavator overheat and explode, making the rocket unable to refuel. Here's a picture of the rocket, does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? Thanks! http://imgur.com/IocxELw You're not doing anything wrong, unfortunately this was Squads error, not yours. It was a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streetwind Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Pssst @sal_vager... this thread is nine months old, it was just necro'ed by a newbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal_vager Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 13 minutes ago, Streetwind said: Pssst @sal_vager... this thread is nine months old, it was just necro'ed by a newbie Good catch Streetwind, I think this thread has had its day, this is fixed in1.2.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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