Su-27 esque aircraft

[M.Wolfy]

So I was just up one night, tired from intensive spacecraft testing (which I'll post on the WIP thread soon) and decided to throw something together...

It ended up looking like a Su-27 and went, stuff it, i'm doing this.

No, it can't "really" do a Pugachev's Cobra, but by definition it still has supermaneuverability, in true, slow speed russian fashion,

Max speed at sea level is 285m/s, bleeds speed ridiculously in high speed turns, can do ridiculous maneuvers at low speed (<50m/s), and horibbly unreliable in 4x physics warp (at x3 its on the brink of falling apart), but physics warp is fine at high alt. Can reach 8500m in dry mode and 15000m in wet mode (17000m with low fuel).

1=Afterburner 2=Flaps 3=Close all intakes (immediate engine shut down) 0=Disable Reaction wheels and engine gimbal

Sugoi 27 is the original version, Sugoi 27K has the canards on the front

DL: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g22yj0mgpk3tu13/AAD_B0piE8NQjfYaQlUwil8la?dl=0

Edited March 16, 2016 by M.Wolfy

[AlexanderTeaH]

Looks and flies great, good job!

[He_162]

Stick two small wing flaps with only pitch turned on in the nose, so that they don't peek out or anything, and that should allow for the Pugachev's Cobra. I suspect it has something to do with the game registering the drag from the wings on top of the other wings near the front of your aircraft.

 

I feel like 1 cockpit looks better than having 2, but either way, it still flies, and the second cockpit moves the center of mass forward, reducing supermaneuverability even more.

[M.Wolfy]

14 hours ago, He_162 said:

Stick two small wing flaps with only pitch turned on in the nose, so that they don't peek out or anything, and that should allow for the Pugachev's Cobra. I suspect it has something to do with the game registering the drag from the wings on top of the other wings near the front of your aircraft.

 

I feel like 1 cockpit looks better than having 2, but either way, it still flies, and the second cockpit moves the center of mass forward, reducing supermaneuverability even more.

The second cockpit isn't actually on the aircraft, it's just a thing I thought about and just looked if it would fit (because su-30, but I'll probably build my own cockpit for that)

I'll try your pugachev's cobra suggestion Tommorow and report back tomorrow, life is getting in the way of things.

And I'll probably attempt some structural modifications (make the rudder slightly bigger, see what i can do with the curved section near the tail connector etc. etc.

Edited March 14, 2016 by M.Wolfy
Spelling corrections

[M.Wolfy]

So I've made a few modifications to the aircraft,I aligned and changed the probe core (from a OKTO 2 to a OKTO) inside the service module to be aligned with the horizon whilst removing the , changed the I beams on the end of the wings with ramp intakes, and moved the basic fins on the tail to the bottom, removed the and snuck in some sneaky solar panels behind the service module.

At school yesterday (don't worry, it didn't affect my work ) i was experimenting with the locations of the small wing flaps, and eventually settled for canards slightly behind the cockpit (looks good too!), too far forward and it can do a lovely 180 degree pitch maneuver... It can do a Pugachev's Cobra-ish thing, except with the KSP aerodynamics lacking critical angles (its hard to pinpoint exactly, but the AOA in the maneuver is in the 15-20 degree mark), so it reaches the pitch required for the maneuver with ~20m gain in height, and a critical angle with ~10m gain in height before it reaches the pitch, but then proceeds to just fly upwards.

 

Maybe with an aerodynamic model like FAR it would work...

if i wasn't so reluctant to mod my game.

and it can take off from the second set of piano keys fully laden with fuel... a pleasant surprise to say the least.

Edited March 15, 2016 by M.Wolfy

[AdrianK.]

It looks great, but the cockpit and the vertical stabilizers can be improved

 

[max_creative]

Advice: don't crash.

[M.Wolfy]

10 hours ago, AdrianK. said:

It looks great, but the cockpit and the vertical stabilizers can be improved

 

I plan to make a cockpit, if you've seen some of He_162s aircraft (kudos to him), it'll end up resembling those cockpits.

Not sure about the vertical stabilizers, I could try the FAT tail, but then the vertical stabilizers are just a big as the wing (I'll try it though)...

Care to share your idea?

10 hours ago, max_creative said:

Advice: don't crash.

No Kerbals were murd- *cough* INJURED in the flight testing of this craft.

Edited March 16, 2016 by M.Wolfy

[max_creative]

Just now, M.Wolfy said:

I plan to make a cockpit, if you've seen some of He_162s aircraft, it'll end up resembling those cockpits.

Not sure about the vertical stabilizers, I could try the FAT tail, but then the vertical stabilizers are just a big as the wing (I'll try it though)...

Care to share your idea?

No Kerbals were murd- *cough* INJURED in the flight testing of this craft.

KSP: no animals were harmed in the making of this game.

 

execpt all the bugs squad has squashed, and the original deep space kraken, and the monkey they stole, put a helmet on and smashed in to the monoliths... 

[AdrianK.]

15 hours ago, M.Wolfy said:

I plan to make a cockpit, if you've seen some of He_162s aircraft (kudos to him), it'll end up resembling those cockpits.

Not sure about the vertical stabilizers, I could try the FAT tail, but then the vertical stabilizers are just a big as the wing (I'll try it though)...

Care to share your idea?

No Kerbals were murd- *cough* INJURED in the flight testing of this craft.

Take a look at my Su-27 http://imgur.com/a/jMCee

[Rune]

On 15/3/2016 at 1:38 PM, M.Wolfy said:

It can do a Pugachev's Cobra-ish thing, except with the KSP aerodynamics lacking critical angles (its hard to pinpoint exactly, but the AOA in the maneuver is in the 15-20 degree mark), so it reaches the pitch required for the maneuver with ~20m gain in height, and a critical angle with ~10m gain in height before it reaches the pitch, but then proceeds to just fly upwards.

That's probably because you have a very low wing loading (lots of wing for your weight), and what you are doing is turning very quickly at a very high G. I've got a tiny thing that can actually get locked into a Cobra, bleeding speed like crazy while going forward with a >90º AoA until it falls out of the sky (or you turn on the afterburners and rocket away vertically). The trick is to hit upon a design that is stable both going "forwards" (CoM in front of CoL), and also falling "down" (CoM below CoL), but with them close enough that your control authority can get you from one stable point to the other. And careful! Your normal control surfaces don't really work flying at 90º AoA, because they hardly get any torque, which is why I get my very funny control locks on this one if I try to do it without the engine gimbal to get away form the maneuver.

 

Rune. That simple thing can make a roundtrip to the pole at Mach 2, BTW.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Rune

[He_162]

Put some wing flaps clipped inside the nose, and turn on only pitch, by doing this, you can get rid of the canards completely, and by rotating the flaps vertically, you can adjust the center of lift to be above and behind as Rune is saying, but then you may also be able to get it to be point in just such a direction that when you pull maneuvers, you can easily pull out of them as well.

[M.Wolfy]

On 03/16/2016 at 1:57 AM, Rune said:

-Snip-

Well I managed to get the aircraft into a pugachev's cobra.... It didn't recover before it stalled (might be able to do it at higher speeds).

Anyway, i had to add 6 extra fuel tanks which also lowered the thrust/weight quite a bit, and I'll have to adjust the wings a little (since I'm reluctant to change the shape). MOST of my aircraft so follow the CoL being and above the CoM technique, this is the one exception that does fly.  also would be be so kind to give me the wing loading of that aircraft?

thanks for the tips as well.

On 03/16/2016 at 1:57 AM, Rune said:

Rune. That simple thing can make a roundtrip to the pole at Mach 2, BTW.

Kudos (shame I've forgotten how to give rep in 2 years...)

On 03/16/2016 at 9:51 AM, He_162 said:

Put some wing flaps clipped inside the nose, and turn on only pitch, by doing this, you can get rid of the canards completely, and by rotating the flaps vertically, you can adjust the center of lift to be above and behind as Rune is saying, but then you may also be able to get it to be point in just such a direction that when you pull maneuvers, you can easily pull out of them as well.

I've done that, the 4 flaps clip into the rear of the cockpit, so if i ever made my own cockpit they'd either have to be replaced or relocated, I'll still change the DL to it though (when i get the time), and rotating the flaps vertically moves it forwards and at 90 degrees move it slightly back, but I'll see what I can do.

Edited March 17, 2016 by M.Wolfy

[Rune]

12 hours ago, M.Wolfy said:

Well I managed to get the aircraft into a pugachev's cobra.... It didn't recover before it stalled (might be able to do it at higher speeds).

Anyway, i had to add 6 extra fuel tanks which also lowered the thrust/weight quite a bit, and I'll have to adjust the wings a little (since I'm reluctant to change the shape). MOST of my aircraft so follow the CoL being and above the CoM technique, this is the one exception that does fly.  also would be be so kind to give me the wing loading of that aircraft?

thanks for the tips as well.

I will do you one better, I set up a quick KerbalX download so you can check it out (though it's very simple, basically what you see are all the parts that are there). You can see in the pics that I did also take it a lot of places (and I think they are all fromteh same flight!). It's convenient, because although it is a bit slower than turbojet-equipped planes, the huge TWR in wet mode means you reach cruise speed really, really quick. So you can get to a stable cruise altitude quick (where you get good fuel efficiency in dry mode, at about 10,000m and 600m/s), then just turn physical timewarp on and get most places very fast, at least in terms of gameplay time.

 

Rune. I think reducing wing area would work better than adding tanks in yours.

[M.Wolfy]

1 hour ago, Rune said:

I will do you one better, I set up a quick KerbalX download so you can check it out (though it's very simple, basically what you see are all the parts that are there). You can see in the pics that I did also take it a lot of places (and I think they are all fromteh same flight!). It's convenient, because although it is a bit slower than turbojet-equipped planes, the huge TWR in wet mode means you reach cruise speed really, really quick. So you can get to a stable cruise altitude quick (where you get good fuel efficiency in dry mode, at about 10,000m and 600m/s), then just turn physical timewarp on and get most places very fast, at least in terms of gameplay time.

 

Rune. I think reducing wing area would work better than adding tanks in yours.

Thanks for the craft, It'll serve as a good reference for inevitable struggle I'm about to experience, and I've already managed to explode it in a high speed attempt at a pugachev's cobra , and a little quick question, can you actually get out of the cobra using just pitch or you have to use the afterburners?

In terms of the extra fuel tanks, I was at school at that time and only had 15 minutes to try and test something quickly, and i quickly realised that adding tanks was a bad idea as it struggled to throw a stone at mach 1. So I've decided on removing some of the less important wings (under the main fuselage) and replacing them with things that don't produce lift and removing more wings if that dosen't help (but will still keep the "actual" wing).

I'll probably spend a bit too much time on this during the weekend...

Edited March 18, 2016 by M.Wolfy