Modding Monday: Tbone's XAGM!

[halowraith1]

yes, let's all whine about a military mod.

in fact, you're right. screw mods like this that require hard work to code. let's just have yet another space shuttle/soyuz/saturn v. that's innovative and not completely boring, right? right guys? nobody's ever made any of those have they? there's absolutely none of those floating around, definitely not clogging up the creativity.

Edited March 21, 2016 by halowraith1

[Kuansenhama]

3 hours ago, p1t1o said:

Oof, dark day in here...

I think maybe everyone is just a little high strung about 1.1 coming out, it's been a long time since the last big update to the game...

There really is an argument to be had here. On one side you have the people appealing to morals saying that KSP should not be a military simulator. And on the other end, you have the people that appreciate the mod for its quality and programming. I honestly stand somewhere in the middle.

But in my opinion squad endorsing a weapons mod is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, because squad has always encouraged people to mod the game and play how they like. If you don't like weapons mods, then don't play with them. They're just showing off a mod and saying 'Hey, look at what this person made, we think it's pretty cool. If you want to try it out, you can, but you don't have to.' And while some people may prefer to play in a 'perfect world' without weapons, others may like military gameplay. And both sides of the community as well as Squad must acknowledge that there is a demographic in the community for weapon mods.

Until now, I've played peacefully but after this post I downloaded a couple of weapon mods (including this very one) and made some jet fighters and bombers for the first time. To me, it's fun building a space station or going to Duna, but it's also fun to roll out a dozen jet fighters, turn on the BDA combat AI and watch them fight above KSC. So for that, I thank Squad for helping me to have an open mind and try something new in KSP. It won't replace the things I really like to do (like exploring the solar system) but it offers another flavor of gameplay that I previously hadn't considered.

[Buster Charlie]

On 3/20/2016 at 4:56 AM, Wallygator said:

IAt what point exactly did I suggest that this was about play style in the OP?  I didn't.

This is all about Squad promoting a military weapons mod.  (BTW - A promoted mod has a  higher chance of being made stock in case you haven't noticed)

Here's an official straw man for you to chew on: Let's say someone creates a mod that accurately replicates napalm in KSP.  It would be so well done and coded that people would say "wow that's a fantastic piece of code". It would show in graphic detail or even cartoonish detail the skin actually melting off Kerbals when they are bombarded with it. It would even have sound effects of their screaming, Oh and how about a simpit interface that emits actual smells of burning flesh - yea, that too.

• The very next Monday this napalm mod appears on the community forum site and is praised, all the while the official stated position being that weapons are not planned as a component of the game.
• Do you think it wise for them to do so?
• What impact will it have on the game brand when mods like these gradually overshadow the exploration and science aspects of the game?
• What about the 6 year old who creates a fan art drawing of the skin melting + napalm + Kerbal scenario <--- will that get featured on Fridays?

Not Mondays: "Weapons have no place in stock KSP. We will never make weapons in the game."

Mondays: "Ooh! Look at this really cool weapons mod everyone! WE LOVE NAPALM!"

How may other games glorify war, weapons and killing? Do we really need KSP to be another one of those?

In the end, It's squad's decision what to do with KSP and weapons.  It's my personal personal decision to protest such actions. Everyone else can do as they like with their voices or their silence. However, players who agree that weapons should never be part of the stock game must continue to voice their opinions strongly.

Play the game how you want. Write and use the mods you want - but no more official promotions of weapons mods please. They can still all reside off-site at Curse and/or Spackdock/port/whatever

Oh, and exactly what direction is your head actually shaking?  Left/Right, Up/down? Or perhaps just reading the OP caused a seizure. If the latter, I'm really sorry about that. Really, I am. Still, i laughed a bit.

And thank you for providing the opportunity to correct the trajectory of this thread.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Nothing in this message is intended to be said or quoted by or from squad. Quotation marks are used for effect only. This message has had all its hate removed prior to posting. There are no plans to create a NAPALM! mod, and please no one should do it.  Please NO!

I thought this forum had a rule about non-political or ideological posts? It seems the reflexive pacifist protest posts are entirely ideological in nature.

 

I for one would PAY MONEY for the napalm mod you described,  and I don't even run BD Armory or any war mod.

 

 

Edit: the further clarification of my contempt for this ideological driven hatred of weapon mods.

 

A few mod showcases back they had a mod that was entirely about enhancing the graphics of crashing parts. It had crumpled rocket parts, leaking fuel,  smoking parts. By the logic of some people this was to glorify violence and death.  I mean, what purpose would it serve to include enhanced crash effects unless you  intended to crash your rockets for sadistic pleasure?

 I don't recall a single post about shaming SQUAD for encouraging children to violently smash rockets into other objects...

But some people are so threatened by actual diversity of thought they need to lash out at anything they don't personally  approve of.

 

For the children of course.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Buster Charlie

[HoloYolo]

2 hours ago, halowraith1 said:

yes, let's all whine about a military mod.

in fact, you're right. screw mods like this that require hard work to code. let's just have yet another space shuttle/soyuz/saturn v. that's innovative and not completely boring, right? right guys? nobody's ever made any of those have they? there's absolutely none of those floating around, definitely not clogging up the creativity.

Lol have you seen the BD expansions? There are way more than you think. I agree that there is way too much real life spacecraft mods, but there's a hell of a lot of BD expansions as well if you bother to check.

[SpaceToad]

1 hour ago, Buster Charlie said:

I thought this forum had a rule about non-political or ideological posts? It seems the reflexive pacifist protest posts are entirely ideological in nature.

 

I for one would PAY MONEY for the napalm mod you described,  and I don't even run BD Armory or any war mod.

 

 

Edit: the further clarification of my contempt for this ideological driven hatred of weapon mods.

 

A few mod showcases back they had a mod that was entirely about enhancing the graphics of crashing parts. It had crumpled rocket parts, leaking fuel,  smoking parts. By the logic of some people this was to glorify violence and death.  I mean, what purpose would it serve to include enhanced crash effects unless you  intended to crash your rockets for sadistic pleasure?

 I don't recall a single post about shaming SQUAD for encouraging children to violently smash rockets into other objects...

But some people are so threatened by actual diversity of thought they need to lash out at anything they don't personally  approve of.

 

For the children of course.

This right here. Perfect explanation.

[troyfawkes]

Not sure if this was brought up, but rocketry started with the military. I don't think you could talk about the history of rocketry without talking about the V-2 (the German name for it translates to "Retribution Weapon 2"), which was the first man-made object to pass the boundary to space.

Wikipedia tells me that 3,000 V-2s were fired at the allies during WW2, resulting in upwards of 9,000 deaths (add 12,000 if you count the forced labour to build them). And that's just one example.

Spaceflight has a dark history.

I think it's noble that Squad didn't include warheads in the first couple parts of the tech tree and shows the intention of the stock game, but if they did it would have been more realistic. I believe one of the (optional? it's been a while) packs in the RO universe includes wardheads, for example, which makes sense because it fits into our history and a push for greater realism. We also have life support packs that often kill kerbals. The stock game has a million ways a kerbal could die.

It's definitely not just a black and white issue, and unfortunately the line gets drawn by someone who isn't you (in the general sense, not talking to anyone in particular). In this case, I think Squad would certainly avoid any connection to a mod that simulates a war crime in graphic detail, such as the napalm example, but I can see why it's well within their limit to include BD. It's definitely a balance, though.

Edited March 21, 2016 by troyfawkes
A word

[OrbitalBuzzsaw]

On March 21, 2016 at 3:48 PM, troyfawkes said:

Not sure if this was brought up, but rocketry started with the military. I don't think you could talk about the history of rocketry without talking about the V-2 (the German name for it translates to "Retribution Weapon 2"), which was the first man-made object to pass the boundary to space.

Wikipedia tells me that 3,000 V-2s were fired at the allies during WW2, resulting in upwards of 9,000 deaths (add 12,000 if you count the forced labour to build them). And that's just one example.

Spaceflight has a dark history.

I think it's noble that Squad didn't include warheads in the first couple parts of the tech tree and shows the intention of the stock game, but if they did it would have been more realistic. I believe one of the (optional? it's been a while) packs in the RO universe includes wardheads, for example, which makes sense because it fits into our history and a push for greater realism. We also have life support packs that often kill kerbals. The stock game has a million ways a kerbal could die.

It's definitely not just a black and white issue, and unfortunately the line gets drawn by someone who isn't you (in the general sense, not talking to anyone in particular). In this case, I think Squad would certainly avoid any connection to a mod that simulates a war crime in graphic detail, such as the napalm example, but I can see why it's well within their limit to include BD. It's definitely a balance, though.

FINALLY

[Hellbrand]

Hate to necro however! yeah as it stands we all have the right to play our games the way we want. as previously stated, Rocketry's greatest advancements usually came along-side Military research, the original Gemini and Mercury suits were nothing but high altitude Aircraft Flight suits in thier early incarnations. We have to face it. Military Research and advancement in the civilian sector has gone hand in hand I mean the initial form of the internet was essentially a dial up connection between the different Radar bases and i dont have to explain the importance of the internet

 

[KSP Bros KS]

On March 15, 2016 at 2:09 PM, KSP Bro AE said:

WHAT? This gets featured? C'mon, I made two weapons mods (Star Wars BD addon and Starfire laser pack), and this gets featured. No offense to the modder, it must be a good missile, but this is just a 1 part mod!

 

Star wars was MINE