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Devnote Tuesday: Arrivals and Departures


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1 hour ago, hildegain said:

sorry @hidegain , not sure how this quote box ended up here, but, it wont go away :S

ok. so, i posted to the wrong place, so, here is a copy-paste of that post:

There are far too many quoting me to address with the @ thing. SO, I will blanket address you all, but, first, to Claw, I wish to thank YOU personally for at least saying that "feature" is completely optional with a toggle. Thank you. NOW, to the folks quoting me and making assumptions about what I want or do want or anything of that sort.

RIGHT UP UNTIL CLAW stated it has a toggle, I saw a feature that was 100% FLUFF. This is NOT a declaration of what I want or do not want. It is a feature that, has NO PURPOSE beyond looking "pretty" to some. Again, NOT a declaration of something I do or do not want. With the fact, KNOWN FACT that we CANNOT move in IVA, the ability to see a "tech drawing" of our ship provides 0 benefit to doing ANYTHING. Again, NOT a declaration of something I do or do not want. While, YES, to some it may, might, could possibly have value in video making could be useful, I do NOT make videos so, thats a PURE GUESS.

Is it useful for keeping track of who is where? COULD BE, but, hit M and check your ships roster out by clicking the kerbal and that tells you too.

NOW, let me go into what is irritating me about a feature, that, to be 100% swear an oath in court honest, I think, at this current time, with current known features is something that could have absolutely waited to be done, as there are frankly bigger issues to tackle. I mean come on, we are switching to U5 and who knows what bugs that will bring, what things that work now in 1.0.5 are broken and being tackled for 1.1? ONLY our devs know. I personally think, they could have waited to do this for say 1.1.2 or some such when the big bugs, bugs the size of godzilla are roaming the code have been tackled, the fact that other things that need to be done seem to have lost priority to a fluff feature is what bugs me. 

Do I want this feature? I honestly will use it exactly ONCE to see it, then shut it down and forget it exists. NOW, please, understand something, I say this with all the respect in the world for our devs AND this community, I think they made a mistake doing this feature NOW when we are in a state of transition to a new and better version of the engine, it is something that, I honestly can see some people making use of, but, again, right now, with the lack of mobility in stock <no clue if a mod exists that allows IVA movement> in IVA this is a feature that we frankly do not need at this time. 

I cannot now, nor ever stress this simple fact: Cut-away views should not at this current time have been done, they should have waited, just as I think they are holding off on GP2 and other bits and bobs as they make a strong core game. Shiny parts, plasma trails, longer and better smoke plumes are all things along with, yes, IVA mobility, are things I would LOVE to see happen, but, again, not while things like engine upgrades and bug fixes that go along with that change are going on. I just think, it is something that would have been better done later.

I do hope with all sincerity HOPE this now makes sense to you all.

 

again, @Claw thank you for at least allaying ONE of my fears.

I wish everyone reading this a happy spring break and if you celebrate it, a Happy Easter.

Edited by AlamoVampire
can a mod kill that quote box, it wont go away.
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I saw the mispost, and gallantly followed your lead.

In any case, it's important to note that not every feature is going to be universally loved by everyone. Given the broad player base and the type of content in KSP, it's bound to happen. So I do encourage folks to keep on their discussion hats and try to put away their stones.

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14 minutes ago, Claw said:

I saw the mispost, and gallantly followed your lead.

In any case, it's important to note that not every feature is going to be universally loved by everyone. Given the broad player base and the type of content in KSP, it's bound to happen. So I do encourage folks to keep on their discussion hats and try to put away their stones.

Can we let Dr. Turkey keep his pitchfork?

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Great news!
Little please! It would be great if you could create save the ship sort (without mods) custom created and referred as folders (it is difficult to look for the right ship when their 200+)

like this to load: 

SPH:

--Muna (folder)

--Minmus (folder)

... (etc planets)

-SSTO

-plane

-seaplane

...(etc custom folders)

ps^ sorry for my poor english

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5 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

Stuff

I do hope with all sincerity HOPE this now makes sense to you all.

NOPE! Literally, did not make any sense. If I tried to get change for your two cents worth of sense, I'd be in debt! :confused:
Sounded like the rambling of one who absolutely, positively does not understand programming, programmers, and possibly people! :huh:

If you had ANY idea how programming works, you'd know that stuff like this can be stumbled upon. "Oops! Oh you, Z-Buffer... Looks like we're rendering the wrong layer in front of something it should be behind... hmm... Wow! That looks pretty cool!". It could also have been a part of debugging the IVA view itself. Point is, someone thought to test it. Someone thought "Cool!". Your little rant is absurd. If the devs didn't occasionally experiment, or be creative, we'd still be launching off a a square patch of swampland, and we'd be lucky to even have Mun and a "picture" of the Sun.

I don't even wanna respond any further, other than to let you know I'm genuinely shaking my head, thinking "how absolutely sad..."

Edited by richfiles
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3 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

it useful for keeping track of who is where? COULD BE, but, hit M and check your ships roster out by clicking the kerbal and that tells you too.

Hitting M doesnt help much if you have several hitchickers or copulas at your base. It just tells you that the desired kerbal is in a hitchhicker, but not which one. 

Besides that, i'm looking forward to this new feature, although i'm not sure i'll use it a lot.

Regards

Tantalus

 

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4 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

NOW, let me go into what is irritating me about a feature, that, to be 100% swear an oath in court honest, I think, at this current time, with current known features is something that could have absolutely waited to be done, as there are frankly bigger issues to tackle. I mean come on, we are switching to U5 and who knows what bugs that will bring, what things that work now in 1.0.5 are broken and being tackled for 1.1?

You can't add big, important features to the game that is going through pre-release QA. They would have to start tests again. That's why antenna relay was delayed. 

But, you can add features that do very little and do not interfere with other things - like autosave rotation or IVA overlay. 

And not every dev can fix any bug. Some devs are better at working with UI, some with backend engine things and some with graphics and shaders. Just because they made this, doesn't mean they had to sacrifice something else, like bugfixing. Maybe guy working on IVA overlay didn't have anything else to do. 

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7 hours ago, Claw said:

That's correct. The cutaway view has a toggle to turn it on when you want to see it, and it is not a replacement for IVA.

Are there some kind of layers, so you could hide clipped parts, but show "main" part? Something like z-index in html for example.

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29 minutes ago, _stilgar_ said:

And not every dev can fix any bug. Some devs are better at working with UI, some with backend engine things and some with graphics and shaders. Just because they made this, doesn't mean they had to sacrifice something else, like bugfixing. Maybe guy working on IVA overlay didn't have anything else to do. 

Precisely this. Just because someone is working on IVA Cutaway does not mean that efforts are sacrificed elsewhere and just because one snowflake doesn't want development time to be attributed to it (or thinks its worth it or not) doesn't mean that it is worthless or wasted effort.

The guy reiterated his point and yet came across equally whiny the second time round.

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Not sure if people here are really understanding what the IVA overlay really means or how it relates to performance.
This is mainly directed @AlamoVampire, but also to anyone who doesn't understand the workings of this feature...

So, guess what guys... See those little IVA portraits of your Kerbalnauts in the lower right corner of the screen? That's the IVA space being rendered to generate typically 1-4 points of view. The IVA has always been rendered, ever since Squad started using a 3D IVA to render the IVA portraits. The thing is, the IVA space is not rendered visibly on the main screen. It's hidden away, visually, but still there, so the points of view can be properly rendered for the IVA portraits.

What does this mean?

A: A 3D model of the IVA has always been there, and is rendered "out of sight" to generate the IVA views. (ever since they went with 3D IVA models to generate portraits)
B: To make it visible, is a matter of switching the IVA model to visible rendering, and placing it at the top of the Z-buffer, so it renders as the front most object (on top of everything). This is simplified, but about covers the basics.
C: Because this rendering has more or less been happening in the background anyway, it's doubtful it would generate any noticeable performance impact.
D: A lot of people here have revealed that they get really whiny when they don't understand what they're talking about, and can't comprehend where a new feature might lead.

Yeah, I'll admit, point D was pretty snarky, but seriously... You're all complaining about something you clearly have no comprehensive understanding of the internal workings of, and you clearly have no vision of where this feature could someday lead. Instead of trying to learn how it works, or imagine the possibilities, or even just decide "I guess I'll just disable it"... You whine. I can't even... That behavior is just sad. Why not be grateful that the devs are working their tails off to create something amazing for us all, and be appreciative that they keep trying to add new ideas and features to KSP, and not just do a few bug fixes and calle'er'good!

A lot of things got added in incomplete, that were later upgraded or made functional. Mission control was one of those things. We got the building before the function. I think R&D was the same way. We got destructible buildings first, and then later got building tiers. A lot of the dev tools are not just good for debugging. THey can provide valuable tools for building crafts! Some of the aero and thermal overlays can really reveal bugs in a design, not just code. I'd consider the loss of those features to be devastating!

Just because you are not able to understand why something exists, or what purpose it could be used for, doesn't make it useless, frivolous, or pointless. A visible IVA is a potential precursor to internal ACTIVE IVA! For example, pizzaoverhead has created a mod that allows you to actually move around in IVA. He's been doing this mod for I think a year now, and the first stages... Were visible IVA. He didn't need to create the IVA... It was already there. What he needed to do was show the IVA, and then the mod had to do tricks to make the hatches able to be opened. it had to create an internal collision mesh, and other fun stuff like that. I'd lost track of the mod's development after the forum thread subscriptions were lost in the forum upgrade, but this reminded me of it.

The point I'm trying to make, is that there's great potential for all new forms of gameplay int he future, and this visible IVA feature could be the foundation to that... Or it could just be a pretty gimmick. Either way... If you don't like it, disable it! Squad has been VERY generous in making most settings user configurable! Why on EARTH do people complain about things they can just turn off! I just don't understand that type of attitude at all! It is literally crazy! :confused:

Edited by richfiles
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ahh! It's been a while since we've had an experimental for a KSP release that felt relaxed and quality driven and not date driven. I'm optimistic that we won't need any hot fixes pushed right after 1.1, but I won't really be upset if we do :-)

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I'm hoping the cut away interior feature will one day become something truly worthwhile.

Showing animated Kerbals moving from module to module would be great and would allow for a much better interface for moving Kerbals around your craft (...and finally putting an end to the witchcraft that allows Kerbals to transfer through trusses and girders).

having full freedom of movement in first person IVA would be awesome too. imagine that in VR!!

edit - and for the nay sayers, I quote richfiles:

2 hours ago, richfiles said:

C: Because this rendering has more or less been happening in the background anyway, it's doubtful it would generate any noticeable performance impact.
D: A lot of people here have revealed that they get really whiny when they don't understand what they're talking about, and can't comprehend where a new feature might lead.

Edited by Capt Snuggler
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7 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

Entitled snowflake snipped

#KERBALSPACEPROGRAMSOGREEN

You say this has no purpose, it has a purpose, and that is to make the game more enjoyable for people who enjoy such features. If you want to go all spartan utilitarian then I can argue that sound effects, textures, and high polygon models, and advanced shadows are also pointless, because the core game mechanic could run on flat shaded low poly hit boxes with vertex lighting.

 

But guess what, some players find enjoyment in small quality of life or 'fluff' or 'roleplay' aspects of the game. 

Imagine that, people enjoy  things you don't find enjoyable. #shock #teenageangst

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11 hours ago, Arsonide said:

It is a configurable setting, so you can have none, ten, or a hundred. Every time the game autosaves, it'll copy the save to a "Backups" directory, before overwriting it.

That's great to hear. Will we also be able to control the frequency of autosaves? What's the default time interval?

Edited by Kerano
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29 minutes ago, Kerano said:

That's great to hear. Will we also be able to control the frequency of autosaves? What's the default time interval?

You can already control the frequency of autosaves. It's in your settings configuration file, AUTOSAVE_INTERVAL. Not exactly intuitive to find, but it is there. The default is five minutes.

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To add on to what Arsonide said is that the game already autosaves by overwriting the persistence file, and it does that at the AUTOSAVE_INTERVAL. The new system keeps backups as well, so if something happens to your persistence.sfs, there will also be some automatic backups.

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Ψ(`_´ #  )↝ PRE RELEASE OR RIOT \(`0´)/

 

 

 

Jokes aside, thanks for the devnote as always. Nice to hear it's going smooth for a change, looking forward to post-experimentals!

Edited by Temeter
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