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Squad how do my tears taste?


alacrity
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I personally think that the steam users are getting the short end of the stick ... they're gonna play KSP non stop with multiple builds full of bugs over the next couple weeks and a good portion of them are likely going to end up getting sick of it

All to the benefit of us die hard supporters of Squad who will end up getting the polished version afterwards ... Just my 2 cents

 

 

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13 minutes ago, pizzaoverhead said:

No, they allowed trading in your store key for a Steam key. If you're an early backer who wants to dodge the issues with both distribution channels, you have to buy the game twice, unlike with other developers who have travelled this route.

True, that. I stand corrected.

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I bought KSP when it was something like 10 dollars. I forget when, but they had put the game on Steam, and offered EVERYONE a key to switch to Steam. Why don't they do it again? Well, from what I have seen, it's just not a thing anymore. It's very likely it's on Steam's end, and not Squad, and I think I know the reason why.

Steam gets a certain amount of money after every purchase, I believe 30%. A company could just say "Buy it on our website!" and then just give you to the key for Steam. It's not fair to Steam.

Anyways, let's say they let store users get the prerelease, which is most likely going to be updated at least once every few days or even hours. That's basically a whole new build submitted, downloaded, extracted, etc every single time. Their servers are tiny compared to Steam's. They simply can't handle it, even if they could, it would most likely be insanely expensive. 

Don't blame Squad, or Steam. 

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5 hours ago, Tourist said:

Bah, I'm a steam user, but I'm not going to download the 1.1 until its done. It seems like to much work. Play, crash, report, play crash, report. Sounds too much like a job. I already have one of those.

ditto

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As for me, I am steam user who will not play the pre-release.

 

I really don't have much time to put into the game at this point in my life, as much as I want to, so I'd be unlikely to find any bugs the others won't.  And I can wait.

Two months from now there will be screaming from people who want yo build 5000 part craft that their game's performance isn't up to snuff.  Seriously, a lot of people have been getting their hopes WAY too high, and they're just setting themselves up for disappointment.

Remember, patience is a virtue. ;)

 

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35 minutes ago, Monkthespy said:

That's basically a whole new build submitted, downloaded, extracted, etc every single time.

Avoiding this is what patches are for. Aside from the initial download, no different from a normal release, the changes will be small and patches equally so. This is not a particularly difficult thing to set up, and the computational load is minimal as the diff needs generating only once for each build.

35 minutes ago, Monkthespy said:

They simply can't handle it, even if they could, it would most likely be insanely expensive.

Xdelta is free, as is rsync.

28 minutes ago, Scotius said:

*sigh*Just fix your dumb patcher SQUAD.

^ this. Fix the updater and the "we don't have the bandwidth" excuse vanishes in a cloud of sanity. Why anyone would distribute a "still in development" game without a working patching/updating system is beyond me, is squad trying to waste bandwidth?

Edited by steve_v
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Sorry... I can fell the frustration of the people that wrote here... But I will not share...

Steam give the possibility for Squad of use more players to check the new version, and at the same time gave the control of the version, to have a more perfect 1.1 version without quick packs... Do you remember 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 1.4? and in a very similar way in 1.5?

I don't have steam key and I don't want it.... I kept a copy of the game of all versions since 0.21 (when I buy the game) and I usually download the game 1 week after the original release...

Now some of the Steam users are happy playing the version 1.1, thank for you, have a good time and found quickly all the bugs of this version...

In few weeks when Squad launch the oficial game and finish this option the steam will upgrade all this people to  the final version... and the people can not stop it... so if you wanted to play you need to wait until steam finish the download...

I prefer to have the control of my game... that is why I bought the original game to the developed team. 

 

 

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I'm poking around in it, but honestly, it's not that big of a deal right now. My gameplay style has evolved around certain specific part types, and the stock game feels too lacking. This isn't casting aspersions on Squad by any means, more that I have become spoiled by mods and my gameplay has shaped itself to them. I'm speaking of things like Realism Overhaul, or for the non-RO, procedural parts, space planes, etc. So with that in mind, I'm just going to stick with 1.0.5 until 1.1 is declared release-ready, and the modding scene has caught up. Fortunately, this pre-release is allowing the modders to do just that, so the good news for you non-Steam players who like mods is that there's likely to be a pretty good library of them ready to go when you're able to update.

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47 minutes ago, obi_juan said:

Steam give the possibility for Squad of use more players to check the new version

A working updater would allow every player to check the new version, if they want to.

59 minutes ago, obi_juan said:

Do you remember 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 1.4?

Yup, I also remember having to re-download the whole damn game for each one, in one case without even the basic courtesy of a version bump or any obvious way to identify which build I'm downloading.

Of course, if you're properly lazy, you could just let steam handle all that updating malarky and everybody who doesnt't use it can go fish, whether they bought the game or not.

Seriously, every other game I have played in the last ~10 years has had post-release patches of some kind, and none required me to re-download the entire game every time.

I see the KSP site has a huge "Purchase KSP" banner directing you to the store... What it doesn't have, is any warning that by doing so you forgo the functional update system and access to pre-releases that you get if you buy on steam.
You also get no way to correct that "mistake" after the fact.

The pre-release is good, for the reasons mentioned. The pre-release only on steam is a plain old slap in the face, squarely aimed at those who tried to support squad by buying directly from them. On top of the no-patcher electron wastage and slow downloads we already have to put up with for every update.

@SQUAD: Steam key please, or a patcher that works.

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Just now, kiwi1960 said:

Get of your computer, go outside, talk to real people.. smell the roses.

No. Outside it is cold and dark. Also, are you implying you are not a real person?

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I bought the game way back when there was not a steam option and since then I have never even been tempted by switching to steam.

Even now I like not loading steam to play. The idea of not being in the experimentals or the steam beta also does not rankle me in the slightest... it's just the screenshots.

I hope this open beta goes great and when the update is ready it is bug freeish. (My mod list will prolly not allow for total lack of bugs). Everything I have seen looks great and when I get started on my new career I expect to have great fun dragging my build down to 5 fps with gratuitus numbers of struts and boosters...

 

Happy flying and enjoy my tears (with a twist of lime)
Alacrity

 

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Why not make some bandwidth available for the non-Steam users who really want to test 1.1?

If the Squad servers can't spare the enormous bandwidth demand, people will just have to wait in line for the download, or distribute the 1.1 prerelease via peer-to-peer networks, e.g. torrents with some means of copy protection.

So if people purchased the game through Squad and really want 1.1, they can just get it from the website with a big WARNING message that the download may be slow and you may need to wait for a bit until you can download.

Restricting access to the prerelease to Steam users only is going to help nothing, it's only going to cause copies of 1.1 to show up on big pirate networks.

Sincerely, a Steam user. ;)

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2 hours ago, Monkthespy said:

Steam gets a certain amount of money after every purchase, I believe 30%.

Sounds probable.

So to the complainers, what should Squad do? Offer existing users an additional Steam key for $10 or $15, and just give every cent to Steam?

Or charge $18 to $20 for the possibility, make just enough to cover the administrative cost, suffer complaints of gouging from existing customers and have a ton of less scrupulous users use this to offer "legit" versions at a discount to friends and family?

Or just avoid the issue and let the entitled crowd put their money where their mouth is ($40 for a second copy of a game you claim to love so much, is that really an obstacle for you?) and let Steam put their cut to good use by guaranteeing the bandwidth and availability of updates...

33 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Seriously, every other game I have played in the last ~10 years has had post-release patches of some kind, and none required me to re-download the entire game every time.

Wait, this is a joke, right? Rather than a 500mb dowload, you really think it would be more reasonable to have a "patch" that is probably never less than half that size, has to be given admin rights to mess around with files on your OS, has to be written three times for different OSs, and is highly likely to break things in what has to be one of the most heavily modded of games out there?

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7 minutes ago, Plusck said:

Sounds probable.

So to the complainers, what should Squad do? Offer existing users an additional Steam key for $10 or $15, and just give every cent to Steam?

Or charge $18 to $20 for the possibility, make just enough to cover the administrative cost, suffer complaints of gouging from existing customers and have a ton of less scrupulous users use this to offer "legit" versions at a discount to friends and family?

Or just avoid the issue and let the entitled crowd put their money where their mouth is ($40 for a second copy of a game you claim to love so much, is that really an obstacle for you?) and let Steam put their cut to good use by guaranteeing the bandwidth and availability of updates...

Wait, this is a joke, right? Rather than a 500mb dowload, you really think it would be more reasonable to have a "patch" that is probably never less than half that size, has to be given admin rights to mess around with files on your OS, has to be written three times for different OSs, and is highly likely to break things in what has to be one of the most heavily modded of games out there?

Squad have the ability to bulk request Steam keys for free. A code patch is generally less than 5 MB; asset bundles make up the majority of the file size and these don't change as often (new content).

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1 minute ago, pizzaoverhead said:

Squad have the ability to bulk request Steam keys for free. A code patch is generally less than 5 MB; asset bundles make up the majority of the file size and these don't change as often (new content).

So who gets to choose who gets the keys? I'm pretty sure Steam will not want to give away free keys for every copy of a game which they specifically did not get a cut of since the developers continued to sell it off-Steam.

And again, point me to examples of multi-platform 5mb code patches which did more than fix a couple of bugs on a third-party game engine without going through Steam.

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34 minutes ago, Plusck said:

what should Squad do

How about the same service steam users get, or a transfer to steam? that would be, oh, I don't know, fair and equal treatment of all paying customers.

34 minutes ago, Plusck said:

a "patch" that is probably never less than half that size, has to be given admin rights to mess around with files on your OS, has to be written three times for different OSs, and is highly likely to break things

If your game patch does any of the above, especially "mess around with files on your OS", get out of software development right now, you're a hazard to all and sundry.

None of the issues you mention need affect KSP, provided someone with more than 3 brain cells sets it up.

Do you have to re-install your OS for every minor patch? No? You do realise this is a far more complex task than updating a single application, right? I can't actually recall ever having had an update bork my system, at least not unexpectedly.
Then again I don't run windows, I hear that kind of thing happens over there.

The size of a patch is the size of the changes - that's the point. Do you really think each build is going to change half the game data so radically that you can't get a useful delta?
Squad must have a great many code monkeys to be generating that, either that or they're planning on replacing all the assets every time they fix a bug. :confused:

The last patch I downloaded was ~200MB... for a ~6GB game. Totally not worth patching OFC, I've got 5.8GB of DL traffic and a few hours to burn. :rolleyes:


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16 minutes ago, Plusck said:

So who gets to choose who gets the keys? I'm pretty sure Steam will not want to give away free keys for every copy of a game which they specifically did not get a cut of since the developers continued to sell it off-Steam.

Whatever deals Squad made with Steam are their problem. The fact is, I paid for the game just the same as someone who bought it on steam... yet I get inferior service and exclusion from testing. Same product? apparently not... and this is not disclosed before purchase.

 

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Ooh look, a patch for PoE on GOG... game size: 6.8GB, patch size: 593MB. Smooth install, system and game unharmed. I rest my case.

Edited by steve_v
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4 hours ago, steve_v said:

Well, they did - but only to those who bought it prior to release on steam. I'm SOL because I bought a copy ~1 month too late... with no warning that I would be shafted later on for this apparent blunder.

hmm, what about 1 week...

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19 minutes ago, Plusck said:

And again, point me to examples of multi-platform 5mb code patches which did more than fix a couple of bugs on a third-party game engine without going through Steam.

One example that I can think of off hand. Planeshift, http://planeshift.it, predates steam by several years. Coded for win, lin, and mac. Built on the Crystalspace engine.  Some of the .2 and .3 and .4 version updates well exceeded 5mb. On mid 3 digit full install sizes

Edited by steuben
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2 minutes ago, jwenting said:

hmm, what about 1 week...

Ouch. Gotta love that arbitrary segregation of your customers, makes people real happy and all.

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