inigma

[ASC-III] Air Superiority Challenge - King of the Hill (BDArmory 4v4 AI Duels: WW1 Theme) - Now Concluded!

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Just now, Monkey29399 said:

The turrets will only work if selected. So, if you have multiple kinds of weapons, the AI can only choose one at a time.

Yes, but after something else is selected, even if the AI is using it, it won't work again...

 

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4 minutes ago, Jollyfellow said:

Yes, but after something else is selected, even if the AI is using it, it won't work again...

 

So, when the AI selects a Vulcan turret, and switches to missiles, It can't use the Vulcan while firing missiles.

After using missiles, when it switches back, it can use the turret again.

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1 minute ago, Monkey29399 said:

So, when the AI selects a Vulcan turret, and switches to missiles, It can't use the Vulcan while firing missiles.

After using missiles, when it switches back, it can use the turret again.

No, even after switching back, it can't use them. This is why I am confused...

If any other weapon is used before them, they can't be used and are completely disabled.

 

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3 minutes ago, Jollyfellow said:

No, even after switching back, it can't use them. This is why I am confused...

If any other weapon is used before them, they can't be used and are completely disabled.

 

Huh. Does it just not shoot, even in close-range combat?

You might need to adjust the gun range in the weapon manager's settings.

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2 minutes ago, Monkey29399 said:

 

Huh. Does it just not shoot, even in close-range combat?

You might need to adjust the gun range in the weapon manager's settings.

Not at all, they'll follow where the AI is aiming, but just won't shoot, no matter the distance...

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So I tried running the next in line for this tournament and after nearly an hour of trying to get the crafts to take off I finally succeeded in having one of them manage to make it into the air

I have conferred with @inigma and the decision was left to myself to determine if @Dman979's Part Clipper should be disqualified which I have decided that it has been

You can watch the video below and judge for yourself if this is warranted ... Just remember it took close to an hour to get just 1 video worth uploading

 

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4 minutes ago, Jollyfellow said:

Not at all, they'll follow where the AI is aiming, but just won't shoot, no matter the distance...

Does it shoot if you manually select it?

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12 minutes ago, Monkey29399 said:

Does it shoot if you manually select it?

That's the problem, neither I, nor the AI can shoot them if something else is selected before them...

 

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@JollyGreenGI  Okay, so I did some testing with your Matadors, my jets won 2 out of 3, and you won one, I would recommend making some changes if you're going to re-enter them (especially because I basically designed mine to beat yours), or making a new jet. It was fun watching them battle, and I was actually rooting for the Matadors in the third match, luckily they won, so it looks like they have a good chance. Nice job designing your jets, and thank you for letting me use them!

Edited by Jollyfellow

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@Jollyfellow If you're talking about ASC-II, I'm probably gonna stick with the Fiesta base. It's better suited for the unconventional competition. But for the planned ASC-M, Matador should fit in nicely, especially since it used to be near identical to an F-16.

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10 hours ago, DoctorDavinci said:

~snip~

Oh-huh.

Well, that never happened when I was doing my testing. I wonder if the wheels were off on your version? They certainly weren't off on mine, IIRC. Was this in 1.1 or 1.05?

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11 hours ago, JollyGreenGI said:

@Jollyfellow If you're talking about ASC-II, I'm probably gonna stick with the Fiesta base. It's better suited for the unconventional competition. But for the planned ASC-M, Matador should fit in nicely, especially since it used to be near identical to an F-16.

You mean ASC-A? In which case, yes indeed. I've actually mounted some Mavericks and a FLIR ball onto your Matador and use it for testing my level designs :sticktongue:

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28 minutes ago, Hobbes Novakoff said:

You mean ASC-A? In which case, yes indeed. I've actually mounted some Mavericks and a FLIR ball onto your Matador and use it for testing my level designs :sticktongue:

@Jollyfellow No, I mean ASC-M, the modern division. Which I presume won't allow turrets and lazers.

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1 hour ago, JollyGreenGI said:

@Jollyfellow No, I mean ASC-M, the modern division. Which I presume won't allow turrets and lazers.

Oh, I should mention that I'm reducing the divisions to just AI vs AI  (ASC) managed by me and Player vs Environment (ASC-A) managed by @Hobbes Novakoff. There won't be an ASC-M or ASC-KAX because I've decided to keep things fresh, exciting, and not-so-burnout-able, to just rotate various rulesets for different ASC Series. Maybe a new ruleset every month or whenever someone racks up 10 wins in a row or whichever comes sooner.

 

Everyone:

I'm settling down to the following ASC-II ruleset changes:

1. Match rules are the same as ASC-I (see OP Match Info) except fights will be 3v3.

2. Entry rules are changed as follows:

- Drones allowed, but at least one Kerbal survivor is required to claim KOTH.

- Max part limit of 100.

- No turrets.

- A grand total of 20 BDArmory parts allowed. With a BDA weapons module, and AI module required, that leaves players with only 18 parts including rails (yes rails are counted separate), missiles, chaff, flares, radar, ECM, cannons, and ammo. Should make things interesting.

- Because I don't want to load every single craft and count parts visually myself, in order for the BDA part requirement to be easy on us hosts, all submissions MUST be on KerbalX. No exceptions. KerbalX has a part counting in its Details link for each craft, making it easy to count your BDA part compliance.

- still no restrictions on AI or weapons manager presets

- all systems you want activated must be done so via the staging key only. hosts will not turn on ECM or other items for you.

 

Any have any comments before this gets written in stone?

 

ASC-III will hopefully run in June, and will require Command Seat only craft, and a max of two 50cal guns and KAX engines only. :)  We will return to anything-goes most likely in July ASC-IV.

Edited by inigma

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28 minutes ago, inigma said:

- Max part limit of 100.

Hi Inigma,

I'd like to make a comment-

Some people might submit radically different craft files as part of their team. I'd suggest changing that part limit to a max of 300 parts per team. This means that you could have a craft with 50, one with 100, and one with 150, and still be compliant. The total partcount is still the same as the max above, it's just a different way of spreading it out which might make it more fun.

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5 hours ago, Dman979 said:

Oh-huh.

Well, that never happened when I was doing my testing. I wonder if the wheels were off on your version? They certainly weren't off on mine, IIRC. Was this in 1.1 or 1.05?

This was done in 1.0.5 with the craft from the link in the OP

It wouldn't sit on the tarmac level ... the lack of pitch control made your craft constantly pitch down after getting airborne and smashing it's landing gear into the ground causing a catastrophic failure resulting in 'splosions as you can see from the video

You may also notice that as a result of the landing gear jittering from the uneven surface of the island runway that they essentially broke and couldn't be retracted by the one craft that did manage to make it into the air ... I ran it 8 times and individually launched each craft from the SPH and used vessel mover to move each craft to the island and only one video was worth posting

I wonder if you tested your craft being launched from the island runway which is much rougher on landing gear than the KSC runway or the grass fields beside it ... this could be the mitigating factor that caused your craft to pitch down and crash consistently

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1 hour ago, inigma said:

- No turrets.

I have a few questions about this. If we were to limit the gimbaling range on the M230 to zero, could it be used as a lighter 30mm alternate to the GAU-8?

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1 hour ago, Dman979 said:

Hi Inigma,

I'd like to make a comment-

Some people might submit radically different craft files as part of their team. I'd suggest changing that part limit to a max of 300 parts per team. This means that you could have a craft with 50, one with 100, and one with 150, and still be compliant. The total partcount is still the same as the max above, it's just a different way of spreading it out which might make it more fun.

 

sounds more fun, but more complicated. 100 max for now per craft. The idea is to ramp this up into 4v4 if we can. Also I don't want to count parts. :) I'm sure other match hosts would agree. heh.  It takes a good hour sometimes to record a single match. 37 matches? almost 40 man hours for ASC-I. Counting parts will already increase that time. egh.

 

1 hour ago, JollyGreenGI said:

I have a few questions about this. If we were to limit the gimbaling range on the M230 to zero, could it be used as a lighter 30mm alternate to the GAU-8?

Oh you mean the cool looking x-wing style you had going on... hmmm... 

Is there an obvious balance difference between locked turrets and current fixed cannons? If so, then no to turrets, if not, then yes to turrets (sans lasers).  I'll give this more thought unless other people are ok with turrets being locked to 0 gimbal. Anyone? If so, then that M1 Abrams turret could um... go flying too. :)

Edited by inigma

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11 minutes ago, inigma said:

Is there an obvious balance difference between locked turrets and current fixed cannons? If so, then no to turrets, if not, then yes to turrets (sans lasers).  I'll give this more thought unless other people are ok with turrets being locked to 0 gimbal. Anyone? If so, then that M1 Abrams turret could um... go flying too. :)

Fixed turrets essentially behave the same as any fixed gun, so the only balance difference would be weight.

P.S: I wanted to use M1 Abrams turrets as anti-laser armor. Now that lasers are banned, they're useless to me.

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36 minutes ago, inigma said:

Is there an obvious balance difference between locked turrets and current fixed cannons? If so, then no to turrets, if not, then yes to turrets (sans lasers).  I'll give this more thought unless other people are ok with turrets being locked to 0 gimbal. Anyone? If so, then that M1 Abrams turret could um... go flying too. :)

Pretty obvious. Generally, since they can rotate to compensate for wobble, they drastically increase accuracy. Also, if you mount them on the tail, they're pretty OP. See the end of the test battle-the focused plane shoots with the front turrets (which I locked to about 5 degrees of gimbal) and misses, then the other plane flies past and chews up the focused plane with the back Vulcan turret.

[Oh. Locked turrets. Derp.] :sticktongue:

Edited by Hobbes Novakoff
whoops

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3 hours ago, inigma said:

- all systems you want activated must be done so via the staging key only. hosts will not turn on ECM or other items for you.

 

Any have any comments before this gets written in stone?

How do we use ECM then? Or do we just not?

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15 minutes ago, Jakerblam22 said:

How do we use ECM then? Or do we just not?

Put toggle ECM in the stage bracket in your hot key settings ... at the top of the screen between the 'parts' tab and the 'crew' tab there is the 'Action Group' tab which allows you to set the number keys as hotkeys to use functions available for any given part, just put the part in question into the stage bracket and when the craft is staged it will be activated

Go into the Action Group tab and then click on the ECM module on your craft ... you will see some options come up which you can select to activate when you press said hotkey you want to bind it to

Edited by DoctorDavinci

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Go to the Action groups menu in the SPH and add everything that is to be activated for the plane to the stage AG (should be near the top of the available AG options). When the craft is staged by the match host to turn the engines on, everything else will get activated as well.

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Okay I think I gotta mention this, but the BD F-22 cockpit should probably be counted as a BDarmory part, since it has a built in radome.

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1 hour ago, drtricky said:

Fixed turrets essentially behave the same as any fixed gun, so the only balance difference would be weight.

P.S: I wanted to use M1 Abrams turrets as anti-laser armor. Now that lasers are banned, they're useless to me.

But... Lasers aren't banned... Turrets are.

@inigma I agree with Dman, I think it should be a 300 part total, but I will try to get my ASC-II jet(s) down a bit until then.

Dang... Still stuck at 22 BDArmory parts.... *sigh*

Edited by Jollyfellow

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