Prasiatko

Does anyone actually use the first level runway?

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Even with the second level one i've found it is far easier to simply turn your plane 90o and use the miles of flat ground surrounding it. Same goes for coming into land.

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I've never improved the runway in career at all, I use it to test rovers.

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Thats an interesting use for it... but yea, I use the nice flat grass and just taxi on/off the runway.

Sometimes I do that even with the lvl3 runway, because the grass is a bigger and much wider area... I only really have an incentive to land on the runway for style points or if my plane will likely not handle the slope if I try ot taxi onto the runway for 100% recovery.

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Yes I choose to only use the 1st level runway in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are fun

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The level 1 runway is a death trap. Planes are already inclined to flip over and kill everyone without getting them up to speed on a bumpy gravel road.

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I turn my planes 90 or 180 degrees in the SPH before liftoff whenever I'm stuck with that abomination. It's also among my early upgrades, even though I barely ever use planes.

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It's weird that it's more uneven than the surrounding terrain. What's with the lumpiness? Maybe the KSC staff uses it as a sandbox of sorts?

I've been using it more often recently. It's not so bad for low tech planes - taildraggers do just fine. Use Junos, apply pitch, and lift off by ~50m/s.

Back in 0.9, though...*shudder*...the mk1 jet was too fast and too heavy. I always had to use the grass.

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If I'm feeling masochistic.

IMHO it wants a revamp. Since we're already getting a wheels overhaul, maybe make it vary the friction rather than the bumpiness. Grass would be quite high friction and potentially hard to take off or land from. The dirt runway would be less, and the paved runways less still.

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The fact that people use the grass tells us a lot about what needs to happen to planetary surfaces in general. All open ground should be worse than the level 1 runway, everywhere in the solar system. Maybe rovers would work better if this was the case. For all the work on the new wheels in 1.1, have they bothered to check this? If a large, delicate spaceplane can land anywhere but a surfaced runway, something is profoundly broken.

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19 minutes ago, tater said:

The fact that people use the grass tells us a lot about what needs to happen to planetary surfaces in general. All open ground should be worse than the level 1 runway, everywhere in the solar system. Maybe rovers would work better if this was the case. For all the work on the new wheels in 1.1, have they bothered to check this? If a large, delicate spaceplane can land anywhere but a surfaced runway, something is profoundly broken.

Yeah, there's definitely a problem when I'm intentionally de-orbiting my Space shuttles to land on the grassy plains on the other side of Kerbin, rather than the KSC, due to the grass being easier to land on, even when I've upgraded the runway to level 2.

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All of the terrain (except the KSC) should really get roughened up. And the friction should greatly increase. The same goes for other bodies. The Mun shouldn't be as smooth as it is now. If you look at any photo of the moon or mars for that matter, you see rocks everywhere, and small hills and bumps. Now everything is just one smooth surface.

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It's more spaceplane buffing. People land them all over, which should not be a thing. Spaceplane to Duna? It better have a lander, because any spaceplane that lands (other than VTOL) off a runway should be destroyed.

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3 hours ago, luizopiloto said:

the grass is more flat... :P

Exactly ;) Why would anyone land on that rugged thing if we have a perfectly flat surface bigger than it literally a couple of meters to the side?

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7 minutes ago, sal_vager said:

It's good for planting potatoes.

Nah, the ground is too uneven and dry for that :D

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44 minutes ago, r_rolo1 said:

Nah, the ground is too uneven and dry for that :D

Try pumping some water from the pool by the Administration building. Your employees may complain at first, but they will surely love the fresh fries to come!

I agree that the starting runway is worthless for launching planes. The natural ground on every celestial body is way too slippery Actually, sliding Kerbals down crater walls on the Mun is one of the most entertaining things to watch in KSP, so I take back that statement.

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Level 1 one runway? Never heard... Ah you mean that "will the tiyres of my rover blow up" test track which really got useless after upgrading to level 2. You think it is a runway? Hmm, that would explain why it looks rougly familar to FAA Cat3 runways once upgraded to level 3... I should start trying to launch aircraft on that surface...

 

 

No seriously, the level 1 runway is just a pain in the as, tried to use it one time and converted to "start on grass instead"

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i would love to see one of the city modders to make an area-51 type secondary ksc with a runway that leads into a lakebed. 

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I don't upgrade until I get the first retractable gear. Its part of my internal narrative for progression in career. 

A scrappy, poor but ambitious space program just starting out with nothing but a basic facilities and moxy, that builds themselves into a successful, state of the art, planet spanning exploration program.

It is a tough strip to work with though. Ironically I find taking off from it harder than landing on it. I lose many wings and engines on takeoff simulations.  

Edited by Tourist

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12 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I turn my planes 90 or 180 degrees in the SPH before liftoff whenever I'm stuck with that abomination. It's also among my early upgrades, even though I barely ever use planes.

Yep, this is pretty much what I do.

I tried, once, to launch a plane from the un-upgraded runway and had it promptly blow up on me. The ground around it is far better for take off and landing than the runway. Not that I've ever landed on it. Flying planes is far too painful so I land pretty much anywhere close by the end of the mission and recover.

8 hours ago, Coeus said:

All of the terrain (except the KSC) should really get roughened up. And the friction should greatly increase. The same goes for other bodies. The Mun shouldn't be as smooth as it is now. If you look at any photo of the moon or mars for that matter, you see rocks everywhere, and small hills and bumps. Now everything is just one smooth surface.

That comes down to programming and the capability of PCs. If you thought we had parts problems now watch what happens when there's suddenly millions of parts lying all over the ground that have to be taken into account. The only way that it could be done would be to make a landing that has any sort of horizontal speed that's not on a runway an automatic crash.

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I believe I have heard someone say the level 1 runway is the most uneven surface in the know universe

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32 minutes ago, Draco T stand-up guy said:

That comes down to programming and the capability of PCs. If you thought we had parts problems now watch what happens when there's suddenly millions of parts lying all over the ground that have to be taken into account. The only way that it could be done would be to make a landing that has any sort of horizontal speed that's not on a runway an automatic crash.

It need not be meshed rough, make sure the texture is a little better, and have the value be rough.

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