(Obsolete) New Rule: Repeated requests for add-on updates are now forbidden

[Red Iron Crown]

[OBSOLETE]

 

A new rule has been added to the forum guidelines, rule 2.3f:

Quote

2.3 Forbidden messages
 f.  Messages that repeat inquiries about updates or content from modders.

This is a more explicit expansion on our rule against harassment, 2.2d. Requests in an add-on thread for updates when there has already been such a request will be moderated. The onus is on the poster to check the thread to see if an update has already been requested.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Frybert
Rule now obsolete.

[Spaceception]

Just now, Red Iron Crown said:

A new rule has been added to the forum guidelines, rule 2.3f:

This is a more explicit expansion on our rule against harassment, 2.2d. Requests in an add-on thread for updates when there has already been such a request will be moderated. The onus is on the poster to check the thread to see if an update has already been requested.

Are you locking this, or leaving it open? I saw that the other one was locked.

[Red Iron Crown]

Leaving this one open for now as this is the forum for discussing the forum and its rules.

[Spaceception]

Just now, Red Iron Crown said:

Leaving this one open for now as this is the forum for discussing the forum and its rules.

'K

[Starhawk]

It's too bad we need this rule.

I understand why it's needed and I hope it helps make moderation easier.

Happy landings!

[swjr-swis]

Not a mod author myself, but I was getting annoyed on the mod authors' behalf seeing all those repeated impatient requests. So thanks for making this a rule.

...

We still get to badger SQUAD for stock KSP updates though... right? I mean, I do still have this perfectly fine pitch fork, would be a shame to let it go to waste.

[Andem]

I know that It's a by case process, but what happens if someone doesn't have time to read a whole thread? Will it only apply to the last three thread pages? I'm glad this has been put into pace, but I can also see this going wrong in several common situations.

[HebaruSan]

An appropriate and timely move.

Spamming makes it worse for everyone, kids. If another user is willing to scroll up to find the mod author's response, you're just making it harder for them by piling on chaff.

[Red Iron Crown]

@Andem To be handled on a case by case basis, as you've guessed. If a person doesn't have time to read the last few pages then they should refrain from posting asking for an update.

[Guest]

@Red Iron Crown Thank you so much!  I can't tell you how many times I've seen people constantly asking for updates.  I'm glad that I personally haven't suffered from that, but recently with the 1.1 pre-release, I've seen a lot of it.  I think there's a lot of people who want to mod the pre-release, and it's really not for that.  The only time I've done that is with updating my own mods, and I've encountered bugs which I haven't been able to report due to not being able to tell if it's a mod problem.  Fortunately, these have all already been added to the bug tracker.

[adsii1970]

It is a shame this rule ever had to be implemented. For the life of me I do not understand why some people do not understand the purpose of a pre-release...

[Sampa]

Would we be able to ask for, say, progress or even for a dev note from addon makers, or is that going to be illegal as well?

[Red Iron Crown]

3 minutes ago, Sampa said:

Would we be able to ask for, say, progress or even for a dev note from addon makers, or is that going to be illegal as well?

That's not substantially different from asking for an update, so no.

[Sampa]

ok!

[RA3236]

We needed this when a modding community started.

[Snark]

Also, bear in mind that the actual rule is "don't post to ask for an update if you're not the first one."

But as a matter of etiquette, may I also recommend that you "don't post to ask for an update ever, even if you ARE the first one."

I'm speaking here as a modder, rather than as a moderator.  Modders are doing this for free, in their spare time, and of course they want their stuff to work, and if a KSP update has broken their mod, they will get around to updating it, on whatever timeline their personal schedule involves.

Here's a handy FAQ:

• Q: "When will an update be available?"
• A:  "Whenever the author has the time and inclination to do so."
• Q:  "But how will I know?"
• A:  "When the mod author decides to tell you, by posting in their mod thread."
• Q:  "But I love this mod and can't live without it, and I really really want it now and don't want to wait."
• A:  "Be patient.  I know you're eager, but your eagerness has no bearing on the mod author's available time and energy.  Asking for an update, or asking when it will come, won't make it come any faster."

I agree with the various posters in this thread that it's a shame we need to have this rule, but alas, so we do.

[swjr-swis]

14 minutes ago, Snark said:

• Q:  "But I love this mod and can't live without it, and I really really want it now and don't want to wait."
• A:  "Be patient.  I know you're eager, but your eagerness has no bearing on the mod author's available time and energy.  Asking for an update, or asking when it will come, won't make it come any faster."

I would add that in many if not most cases, the following is also applicable:

• Q: "But I really really truly cannot do without it!!"
• A: "If you really need it that much and since you cannot play without it anyway, I'm sure you can use the spare time and put in some effort to update it yourself. Just think of the kudos you'll get if you then also share what you did! The source is right <link> here, have at it."

[Guest]

Speaking of the new rule, maybe you could have people agree to the rules when making the account.  I don't know if that's done now, but, if who's reading this has admin privileges, you can go into the Admin CP - Terms and Privacy Policy, and add it in there.  There's an option to force members to accept the rules, etc.  You can also chose to make users accept it again when it's been changed.  I don't know if any admins know that, but if they don't, it's really useful.  Oh, I see that it's used.  Forget that I said anything about it then.

I definitely think that some of this is caused by the fact that the community is growing considering the release of 1.0, then 1.1, and then consoles.  I do expect to see an increase of people who think this is Reddit, or some other forums.  I think we've also just come to an unfortunate age where no one reads EULA's or rules.  Maybe one day...

[swjr-swis]

11 minutes ago, CliftonM said:

I think we've also just come to an unfortunate age where no one reads EULA's or rules.  Maybe one day...

..when EULA's are written in common language and do not consist for 95% of one large compilation of corporate disclaimers and cover-my-butt and avoid-as-many-responsibilities-as-I-can clauses?

Yep, we might actually start reading them then...

[Randazzo]

This is a weirdly specific rule.

Like the "Do not use orally" warnings on hemorrhoid cream.

Don't ask about that comparison.

[Snark]

5 minutes ago, Randazzo said:

This is a weirdly specific rule.

It's a very necessary one, due to the tidal wave of eager players relentlessly pestering mod authors for updates.

It's an issue for any major mod-breaking KSP update, but it's especially acute with 1.1, which breaks just about every mod.  It has turned into a real problem recently, which prompted the need for the new rule.

[Mister Dilsby]

14 hours ago, Snark said:

But as a matter of etiquette, may I also recommend that you "don't post to ask for an update ever, even if you ARE the first one."

Hear, hear! And I think this goes for other content creators as well, though we non-modders don't need a specific rule quite yet. Believe me, whenever a serial author can't post regularly for any reason, we already feel pressured and a little guilty.

"This is great, I want more!" is a nice encouragement. "When are you going to post more pages?" or "Hurry up, post more now!!" or anything else that adds time pressure just plain hurts. I'd imagine it's 1000x worse for modders. 

[Dman979]

14 hours ago, CliftonM said:

I definitely think that some of this is caused by the fact that the community is growing considering the release of 1.0, then 1.1, and then consoles.  I do expect to see an increase of people who think this is Reddit, or some other forums.

Yup, and I think that the moderators will have their work cut out for them, too. But if you think about it, we're kind of being negative, too, by disparaging them before they've even joined.
As for the rule, I'm not a modder but if I was I'd really appreciate it. I have a hard enough time doing schoolwork, let alone working on something I'd start for fun.

[Snark]

20 hours ago, Sampa said:

Would we be able to ask for, say, progress or even for a dev note from addon makers, or is that going to be illegal as well?

As Red Iron Crown pointed out, this is considered illegal, too.

Look, we know you're eager about your favorite mods.  But you have to remember that mod authors have lives, too.  They're not getting paid for this stuff, chances are good that they're busy with a full-time job, or full-time university, or whatever.  Modding is what they do in their spare time, for fun.  Also bear in mind that they know they have a large community of users who like their mods.  They can see the download count.  If I've written a mod that's been downloaded 15,000 times on SpaceDock and has over 200 followers, then I know there are people eagerly waiting for updates.  If I'm concerned that I'm keeping them waiting too long between updates, and if I feel like it, then I'll post a status update or something.  I don't need someone to ask for it.

So if you post anything at all that's "please tell us what's going on" or "what are your plans" or "when will X happen?", you're not doing anyone a service; it's not as though the mod author was just saying "oh gosh, I guess nobody's interested so I won't post anything about my service."

Chances are good that you're one of a pretty big crowd.  If a mod has thousands of users, a lot of them are going to be very eager, and mod authors don't need to be hectored.  They made the mod in the first place on their own initiative, and they will continue to update it on their own initiative.  Let them know "I love the mod!", sure-- that's great encouragement!  But don't jostle their elbow by asking for information that they have chosen not to give.  If the mod author wants you to know something about current status or future plans, then they will tell you.  You don't need to ask.

37 minutes ago, Dman979 said:

As for the rule, I'm not a modder but if I was I'd really appreciate it.

As a modder, I sure do!    But actually, I really appreciate this rule as a mod user, too.  Really popular mods that have a lot of users, like Kopernicus for example, tend to have very long forum threads with many pages of posts.  If I want to find out something specific about Kopernicus (for example, "I'm getting this issue, I wonder if someone else has reported it?"), then I have to rummage through many pages of posts to see if someone has mentioned it.  That's time-consuming.  It's really not helpful if I have to wade through pages of people asking "when will it be updated for 1.1"; that adds nothing to the discussion and is unhelpful to anyone (especially when we all know the answer already; it's "whenever the author chooses to do so, at which time he will tell us").  It's an annoyance to the mod author and the mod users alike.

[Cydonian Monk]

5 hours ago, Kuzzter said:

Hear, hear! And I think this goes for other content creators as well.

Agreed. I'd go so far as to suggest just dropping the "from modders" verbage from the end of the rule now if only to save you mods from having to make said tweak in the future.