KerbalStuff V.2

[elpollodiablo]

What's wrong with spacedock, it looks pretty similar and doesn't it have the DB of kerbalstuff too (well in the beginning)?

 

2 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

well, for starters, we want a site dedicated to just KSP for mods. Kerbalstuff was where it was at, but now that its gone, we are adrift. spacedock LOOKED like it would fill that niche, but, it cant now as it supports other games. also the more games and the even more mods that its handling increases the chance for malware.

I would understand your concerns if they were about bandwith or accessability (both are not a problem), but malware?

Spacedock, like kerbalstuff did too, even has a link to the sources, you do not even have to go via this board.

[Temeter]

1 hour ago, InsaneDruid said:

You can't really answer a question with itself. Question was: "WHY is a multi-game site bad?" Your answer "because it is a multi-game site".

Well put, i'm not a bit smarter after that answer.

[Kerbal007]

I would personally use any site that is user friendly, efficient and advertisement free. If there is an option to donate towards its upkeep, I would be more than happy for that.

I am a grumpy father of 2 with very little time for Kerbal as it is so I value these things.

[monstah]

4 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

P.S.: your poll misses an entry - "I am already supporting/using KerbalStuff V2 (aka SpaceDock)."

https://www.patreon.com/spacedock?ty=c

There's 44 of us at this moment. Let's make that more?  

[godarklight]

Hello everyone!

@VITAS and I are working on spacedock, we had a slight issue with the database which was causing mod uploads to break (that has been around for 2 years but didn't break until we enabled threads), but I believe they've been fixed now. We also got a little bit excited with the caching and accidently pulled a steam bug. Anyone who has concerns with spacedock can do the simple thing and come talk to us - we're friendly enough

@elpollodiablo The source option is actually completely optional, as spacedock has no connection to squad, we aren't bound by their addon posting rules. That being said - you can't link mods that break the rules here, for an example, see my profile on spacedock, my latest mod

 

But yeah, as I said - If anyone has issues, take it directly to me or vitas, we will get back to replying fairly quickly, I'm online pretty much every day - The IRC is probably the best place to get either of us as it enables real-time chat too, and prevents fires as we can explain ourselves more clearly and answer questions faster.

[Warzouz]

I find it's not a good idea to fragment "community assets". Managing a service like KerbalStuff or Space dock now requires a lot of time and relied on volunteers. It's alway better to have more voluntieer on a single project than multiple project with few volunteers.

As a user (and not a modder) I much prefer to have a single community reliable repository as 2 even if the only one has less "user-friendly" features. In any case, SpaceDock seems well designed and does it's job perfectly. Non need to add more features.

Competition is nice, but cooperation is always better.

[monstah]

11 minutes ago, Warzouz said:

IIn any case, SpaceDock seems well designed and does it's job perfectly. Non need to add more features.

Personally, I'd add mod categories/tags (UI, gameplay, parts, etc.). But I agree, a single project with many collaborators seems better for me too, for the same reasons.

[Warzouz]

Just now, monstah said:

Personally, I'd add mod categories/tags (UI, gameplay, parts, etc.). But I agree, a single project with many collaborators seems better for me too, for the same reasons.

Well, we should study how users get to download a mod. Do you really need a "search/categorize" feature. Or most of us choose mods after reading forum pages or watching vids. I may not download a mod just because it's in the same category as another one. But that' my way of doing thing, it's might not be most of us way.

[monstah]

Just now, Warzouz said:

Well, we should study how users get to download a mod. Do you really need a "search/categorize" feature. Or most of us choose mods after reading forum pages or watching vids. I may not download a mod just because it's in the same category as another one. But that' my way of doing thing, it's might not be most of us way.

I like browsing sometimes just to see what's new, and I'd like to be able to browse just gameplay mods, or just eyecandy mods, for example, and not even have to look at part ones.

But then again, it's not something I think the site needs. It works perfectly fine so far.

[LostOblivion]

22 minutes ago, Warzouz said:

I find it's not a good idea to fragment "community assets". Managing a service like KerbalStuff or Space dock now requires a lot of time and relied on volunteers. It's alway better to have more voluntieer on a single project than multiple project with few volunteers.

As a user (and not a modder) I much prefer to have a single community reliable repository as 2 even if the only one has less "user-friendly" features. In any case, SpaceDock seems well designed and does it's job perfectly. Non need to add more features.

Competition is nice, but cooperation is always better.

Indeed. I like SpaceDock and have no need for another mod site as well.

And to make a suitable analogy to real life, the competition between the Soviets and the USA during the Space Race most likely hadn't happened if Kennedy hadn't been shot. He were in fruitful talks with Khrushchev about Soviet/US cooperation in going to the moon, but when Nixon took over Khrushchev didn't trust the new president, so the talks died and the competition took off. :-)

[Whirligig Girl]

16 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

 I've got other reasons, and not just having spacedock no longer being KSP only. 

The biggest being  different website structure. Specifically in relation to the mod listings themselves. 

It's actually still identical to the old KerbalStuff, the size of the listing is the only change. There's no reason to make another KerbalStuff website when we have one that works just fine and is being maintained by plenty of nice, community driven, experienced people. With a good server.

Edited April 12, 2016 by GregroxMun

[FungusForge]

7 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

well, for starters, we want a site dedicated to just KSP for mods. Kerbalstuff was where it was at, but now that its gone, we are adrift. spacedock LOOKED like it would fill that niche, but, it cant now as it supports other games. also the more games and the even more mods that its handling increases the chance for malware.

Seriously. KS was great software, and SD is still ad-free. So what if it supports mods for 3 others games (which have a grand total of 1 mod between them)? I think it branching out to other games is a great, as it could potentially help support the site (unless, of course, you want the only good, reliable modding site to sink again).

 

Besides, it was first made for KSP, is massively popular in the KSP community, and is even named Spacedock. Fact is it'll be a long while before the mod-count of those other games out-numbers KSP's since Spacedock basically slipped into KS's throne of KSP's #1 mod host.

Edited April 12, 2016 by FungusForge

[nosirrbro]

2 hours ago, GregroxMun said:

It's actually still identical to the old KerbalStuff, the size of the listing is the only change. There's no reason to make another KerbalStuff website when we have one that works just fine and is being maintained by plenty of nice, community driven, experienced people. With a good server.

Yeah, but I still feel that we should have an easy to use Kerbal only mod website. Adding other games on the small servers is never a good idea and I feel like space dock is taking a path towards curse which will solve nothing. A site made specifically by the apposers of curse and 'new' space dock would certainly fully avoid that path since that's why the site even exists.

[monstah]

14 minutes ago, nosirrbro said:

Adding other games on the small servers is never a good idea

But, why??

[nosirrbro]

4 minutes ago, monstah said:

But, why??

Ever heard of server overloading? You know, the thing that caused the 1.1 controversy?

[Table]

Oh I'll wait for the next KerbalStuff, my main modsite right know is basically the forums...

 

Curse is too unorganized, and SpaceDock's layout makes me confused

[monstah]

By "the thing that caused the 1.1 controversy", do you mean the fact that it's on Steam and not on the webstore, or the fact that people can't deal with bugs on a pre-release software? I haven't read anything about 1.1 and server overload, maybe I'm disinformed.

If you mean KerbalStuff going down, its server was underfunded, and the dev wasn't up to it anymore (which was not his fault in anyway). Which is why this time, much of the effort is being spent on "PR affairs", getting the community to help support it. And I don't see how an increased community would hurt that.

2 minutes ago, Table said:

and SpaceDock's layout makes me confused

yeah, I kinda agree about that. I support it, but I think an interface overhaul is welcome.

[nosirrbro]

18 minutes ago, monstah said:

By "the thing that caused the 1.1 controversy", do you mean the fact that it's on Steam and not on the webstore, or the fact that people can't deal with bugs on a pre-release software? I haven't read anything about 1.1 and server overload, maybe I'm disinformed.

If you mean KerbalStuff going down, its server was underfunded, and the dev wasn't up to it anymore (which was not his fault in anyway). Which is why this time, much of the effort is being spent on "PR affairs", getting the community to help support it. And I don't see how an increased community would hurt that.

What I'm talking about is the small space dock servers getting too much traffic and slowing down by adding more games. That's what caused the 1.1 controversy because squad's servers can't handle users downloading a bunch of updates all the time due to servers being overloaded, so they only offer it on steam

[Gordon861]

33 minutes ago, Table said:

Oh I'll wait for the next KerbalStuff, my main modsite right know is basically the forums...

 

Curse is too unorganized, and SpaceDock's layout makes me confused

Is there any reason why the site needs to really change?

I assume the actual MODs and their info is all held in a database.  So why could a different front end not be produced?

Or for maximum speed a graphics free, text only one that would list 20 MODs on a page?  Multiple pages all interrogating the same database.

The whole advantage of databases is that they can be read in as many different style devices as you want.  Another thought, could a link be added to the SpaceDock page to add a MOD to a users CKAN install, similar to the magnetic links for torrent files? 

Edited April 12, 2016 by Gordon861

[InsaneDruid]

1 hour ago, nosirrbro said:

40 minutes ago, nosirrbro said:

What I'm talking about is the small space dock servers getting too much traffic and slowing down by adding more games. That's what caused the 1.1 controversy because squad's servers can't handle users downloading a bunch of updates all the time due to servers being overloaded, so they only offer it on steam

Yeah, but I still feel that we should have an easy to use Kerbal only mod website. Adding other games on the small servers is never a good idea and I feel like space dock is taking a path towards curse which will solve nothing. A site made specifically by the apposers of curse and 'new' space dock would certainly fully avoid that path since that's why the site even exists.

Adding other games leads to potential more users which lead to potential more patrons paying for faster servers.

The reason to go for steam was surely also not "overloading the servers" but steam offering a very convenient way to use push auto-updates. Having a non-fragmented user base is essential for such a public beta. Also the integration of opt-in betas while still offering auto-updated main builds in general is better in steam than if you host something for yourself and the users get all confused about which version is which.

[monstah]

1 hour ago, nosirrbro said:

That's what caused the 1.1 controversy because squad's servers can't handle users downloading a bunch of updates all the time due to servers being overloaded, so they only offer it on steam

I think there's some misunderstanding here. Or, at least, I don't remember Squad ever mentioning they chose Steam because of server traffic. Instead, from what I read on the Devnotes my conclusion is similar to this:

28 minutes ago, InsaneDruid said:

The reason to go for steam was surely also not "overloading the servers" but steam offering a very convenient way to use push auto-updates. Having a non-fragmented user base is essential for such a public beta. Also the integration of opt-in betas while still offering auto-updated main builds in general is better in steam than if you host something for yourself and the users get all confused about which version is which.

 

[nosirrbro]

2 minutes ago, monstah said:

I think there's some misunderstanding here. Or, at least, I don't remember Squad ever mentioning they chose Steam because of server traffic. Instead, from what I read on the Devnotes my conclusion is similar to this:

 

They said themselves that without a working patcher people downloading a new entire copy of KSP daily would make their servers slow to a hault, and they can't afford outsourcing the load for that long.

[Hobbes Novakoff]

On April 11, 2016 at 8:40 AM, ZooNamedGames said:

I'm working with a friend who may soon make a project to succeed KS. 

Is making a successor to KS the new cool fad or something?

[swjr-swis]

2 hours ago, nosirrbro said:

What I'm talking about is the small space dock servers getting too much traffic and slowing down by adding more games. That's what caused the 1.1 controversy because squad's servers can't handle users downloading a bunch of updates all the time due to servers being overloaded, so they only offer it on steam

I've looked at this for 10 minutes straight, and still the most intelligent reaction I can muster is - Huh??

1. There is zero connection between SpaceDock server size or bandwidth and mod downloads on the one hand, and Squad's choices regarding their method of offering a pre-release version of the game on the other. ZERO.
2. SpaceDock has had a few issues, but download bandwidth has not been one of them. Downloading KSP mods has never been faster than it has been since SpaceDock started hosting them. The speed difference couldn't be more obvious, and if you're using CKAN, I suggest you pay attention to what host the mods are downloading from and at what speed, before complaining about something that is clearly not a problem.
3. I would be really interested to see the specs of the server and the bandwidth and CDN setup that you plan on offering as an alternative. Since apparently that's the centerpiece of your marketing argument, it better blow SpaceDock's 'small servers' completely out of the water to make any sense. Can we see some hard data?

 

At least it's clear now what the actual reason is for this whole thing: someone is patently unhappy about not having access to the 1.1 pre-release. Nothing much anyone can do about that now, except just pointing out that you are completely misdirecting your displeasure at the wrong target. How about instead offering Squad to host a patch server for KSP pre-releases for non-Steam users? At least that would direct your energy towards the real source of your displeasure.

Edited April 12, 2016 by swjr-swis
liquided? really?

[VITAS]

Regarding server load:

Spacedock is running on its own CDN comprising of 10 Servers with a combined max bandwith of over 250 Gbit/s

I challenge everyone to even come close to using that amound of bandwidth. (could even be that curses setup is smaller then SpaceDocks)

Also thanks to all the Donators for makeing that possible (and especialy to GenPage for donating Servers to the mix)

Regarding The multigame thing:

im not playing KSP exclusivly. So isnt it wired that i spend my time making the best mod hosting site i could think of and then go on some crapy site to download mods for some none KSP game? Ofcause im offering SpaceDock to other game communities. Especialy because im not worried about the servers (see above).

And yes i hope the increase in usage will propotional to the increase in donators.

Regarding the name Kerbalstuff:

When we made SpaceDock i asked @SirCmpwn if we are allowed to take over the design and the name and he i didnt allow that.

So: Name rights for Kerbelstuff are with him and youre simply not allowed to call your name "KerbalStuff" or use its design.

SpaceDock Design:

see above

Regarding data and templates:

I simply cant support and maintain more than one design but im thinking about adding color schemes to the site you can pick.

IF you hate it compleatly: there is an api and you can write a desktop app...like CKAN?

------------------------------

If someone wants to making a better site a try they should be allowed to and im ready to learn from them.

If you want to get more facts about SpaceDock or have any request/question please just join the chat

or at least take it to the spacedock thread

and dont fill this thread with SpaceDock related suff. Thank you

 

p.S. i would host a prerelase for store users at an instant if needed.

Edited April 12, 2016 by VITAS