Signo

Tourists should be allowed to disembark from vessels and going EVA w/o "benefits"

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Signo    263

Hi all,

since 1.1 pre-release I am playing a new career game and I have (unluckily...) sent a bunch of tourists out to a Mun/Minmus sightseeing trip w/o any chute to re enter Kerbin atmosphere.

My fault of course, then I suddenly realized I could not bring them home safely if not by strapping some chutes to the craft - an auxiliary chuted&clawed skycrane seems like the only feasible option in stock. 

If tourists could be allowed to go EVA just for switching vessel or to man a command chair that could bring at hand a few more "quality playtime" opportunities.

They obviously should not be allowed to collect samples or reports and to gather and move samples from pod A to pod B.

 

Just sayin'.

 

 

Edited by Signo

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Armisael    80

You can transfer kerbals between crew cabins with the klaw, so if you send up another ship with a klaw you can dock, grab the tourists, undock, and reenter on your own.

Personally I like that tourists are restricted. Maybe if you let them go on EVA but disabled their RCS, but definitely not a fully mobile EVA.

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Kerbart    2875

Let's implement this, and I can assure you, three months from now:

It's ridiculous that tourists that EVA on the surface of a planet or moon cannot take surface samples. They pay a good amount of funds to get there, they have the trip of a lifetime and you're telling me that they can't bring back souvenirs! This is an outrage! Tourists on EVA should be able to take surface samples!

And a year from now tourists are just full fledged kerbonauts on temporary assignments.

I like it that tourists have limitations. I had to unlock the regular docking port first before I could send them to Mun/Minmus (I only launch LKO; from there anything transfers on "Kerbin Station" to transport vessels to go beyond). Surely I could transfer them through the juniors but the for me it implies an EVA and I like the restriction that tourists can't do that; an extra challenge.

Now, it would be cool to have contracts that don't use tourists but full-fledged scientists (and engineers and pilots) instead. Take Tomfrid Kerman to Minmus where he takes surface samples, and return him and the Minmus surface samples to the KSC.

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Signo    263

@Armisael - Oh, cool, did not know bout that. Thanks pal, I owe you one.

However you got the point, I am not looking for anything fully fuctional but just a way to create a very kerbalish Mun/Minmus spaceport with ppl comin and going for a ride with their space scooters. (not really, but a kind of tourists' hub might benefit my space program)

 

@Kerbart - ok, maybe souvenir samples are not the way to go, but a "scooter lander" could be a ride a tourist would really enjoy.

Edited by Signo

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Grumman    92

I wouldn't want it to be universal, but I would like to see some Tourists get the ability.

For example:

Level 0 Tourist: Can go on EVA from a craft on Kerbin's surface, and nowhere else. The basic tourist who you trust to get on and off the bus, but not much else.

Level 1 Tourist: Can go on EVA from a craft on any celestial body's surface, but can't activate the jetpack. A tourist who you'd trust to bounce around on the Mun.

Level 2 Tourist: Can go on EVA anywhere. A tourist with enough training that you'd let him go on a spacewalk.

Level 3 Tourist: Still can't control a craft, but counts as a Scientist and Engineer while on EVA. I.e. not actually a tourist, but a specialist you are being paid to ferry up to some satellite that needs fixing or whatever.

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ment18    25
19 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

Let's implement this, and I can assure you, three months from now:

It's ridiculous that tourists that EVA on the surface of a planet or moon cannot take surface samples. They pay a good amount of funds to get there, they have the trip of a lifetime and you're telling me that they can't bring back souvenirs! This is an outrage! Tourists on EVA should be able to take surface samples!

And a year from now tourists are just full fledged kerbonauts on temporary assignments.

I like it that tourists have limitations. I had to unlock the regular docking port first before I could send them to Mun/Minmus (I only launch LKO; from there anything transfers on "Kerbin Station" to transport vessels to go beyond). Surely I could transfer them through the juniors but the for me it implies an EVA and I like the restriction that tourists can't do that; an extra challenge.

Now, it would be cool to have contracts that don't use tourists but full-fledged scientists (and engineers and pilots) instead. Take Tomfrid Kerman to Minmus where he takes surface samples, and return him and the Minmus surface samples to the KSC.

Make the tourist get a different experiment "Souvenir".  It gives no science but gives a large amount of credits or rep when returned to Kerbin.  Or make planets national parks so its illegal to steal from them.

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Kerbart    2875

Tourist jetpacks have extremely limited DV on board. And maybe five times the thrust to simulate that they are really inexperienced in using it.

If you're going to have tourists EVA'ing it should be a real hair-raising experience and you should take all kinds of precautions to prevent them from drifting off in space (or getting lost on the surface)

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pandaman    1155
4 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Tourist jetpacks have extremely limited DV on board. And maybe five times the thrust to simulate that they are really inexperienced in using it.

If you're going to have tourists EVA'ing it should be a real hair-raising experience and you should take all kinds of precautions to prevent them from drifting off in space (or getting lost on the surface)

That could be fun.  Extra rep and funds for EVAing tourists. Massive compensation claim if one goes nuts with the jet pack and doesn't make it home.

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Kerbart    2875
36 minutes ago, pandaman said:

That could be fun.  Extra rep and funds for EVAing tourists. Massive compensation claim if one goes nuts with the jet pack and doesn't make it home.

Partially recoverable by the inevitable rescue mission that follows, of course!

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Signo    263

Thank you for all the answers - they are all very interesting and it seems to me that "enhanced" tourism could be really a plus with very limited side effects on the game itself.

 

BTW, I managed to save my stranded tourists funneling them through a claw connection.  

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KerikBalm    1524

I would support EVA ability only while the craft state is "landed"... maybe with a G limitation... if a moon with less gravity gets added, or maybe for gilly. For example, the gravity of the comet that the Rosetta mission tried to land a craft on... a tourist could get in real trouble trying to EVA on that... he could probably jump to escape velocity.

*maybe* also "tethered EVA" ... which could go along with some sort of upgrade for kerbonauts at the astronaut complex. They can't jetpack, but they can get out and climb around ladders and such... if they slide off a lader (as kerbals often do)m they'd be pulled back to it like a docking port connection - and I'm not talking about when you're trying to dock, I'm talking about like after you've docked, and you subject the joint to a lot of acceleration, and see a gap form, with the docking port springing back after the acceleration stops.

It should be such that they can't give scientifically relevant EVA reports, or pick up samples of scientific relevance (its their souvenir, the lab can't have it darnit!). They could, however, be trusted to place flags, which could be used for contract completion.

And no.. I don't think they should level up to have better abilities... although the prospect of repeat customers is interesting.

Lets say there is a pool of tourists... they alll spawn tourist contracts... but if they've never even been to space, they only spawn suborbital spaceflight contracts. Only those you've taken to space spawn orbital contracts, only those youve taken to orbit spawn contracts to the moons, only those that went to the moon spawn interplanetary contracts, and so on.

Or perhaps the restriction for one level of spaceflight is lifted once X number of tourists have also done that, so it becomes "mainstream", then all tourists, regardless of "experience" can also spawn contracts for that level. Only those that have done the highest current "spaceflight level" can spawn the next one (with Eve, Moho, Eeloo, and Tylo surface landings being very high level spaceflights)

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Kerbart    2875
7 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

It should be such that they can't give scientifically relevant EVA reports, or pick up samples of scientific relevance (its their souvenir, the lab can't have it darnit!). They could, however, be trusted to place flags, which could be used for contract completion.

That is actually a very good solution. “Plant Flag” is one of those contracts that are great money makers but at the same time feel a bit cheaty at times. Dump a hitch-hiker on the surface (anything smaller would be cruel), put two Kerbals in them (again, just a single one is mean, they'll get lonely) and whenever a flag contract comes up, one of them gets up from watching "CSI: Outer Space", gets out through the Mk 1 Lander Can airlock (I take my Kerbal Komfort seriously!), plants a flag and returns. Profit! It's a great way to get some good Kerbucks on the side, but at the same time it feels a bit shenaniganny.

Now imagine that plant flag missions require taking representative from the contract sponsor to the site to plant a flag; it makes the mission more involved. The contract could even involve multiple steps:

  • Tourist A plants the flag
  • Tourist B takes a picture of tourist A next to the flag
  • Tourist A takes a picture of tourist B next to the flag
  • Perhaps even a tourist C could need to have its picture taken

Tourists on EVA would have a function "take picture" (which generates funds per biome on safe return) aside from "take souvenir" and "plant flag". The conditions to fulfill the contract would be to be within 25m of the flag and within 25m of the target tourist (or something along those lines). Since these contracts are a lot more involved they should pay out significantly more than the current flag contracts (which could for that reason maybe still exist)

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HebaruSan    1997
1 hour ago, KerikBalm said:

although the prospect of repeat customers is interesting.

The idea of a tourist named Jorji Kermana who requests repeated trips to Muun, Ebe, or Dunna makes me smile.

latest?cb=20140201164650

 

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Grumman    92

@KerikBalm Tethered EVA I dislike primarily because it conflicts with a much more interesting implementation of tethered EVA - placing a KAS winch by the hatch so you can have kerbals on EVA grab the cable and jet around in safety.

The idea is not that Tourists level up, specifically, it's that different contracts give you different qualities of Tourists, ranging from dilettantes doing a joyride in the back of a suborbital vomit comet to kerbonauts for that other space agency, the one whose employees keep defecting after they get stranded.

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Signo    263
1 minute ago, HebaruSan said:

The idea of a tourist named Jorji Kermana who requests repeated trips to Muun, Ebe, or Dunna makes me smile.

latest?cb=20140201164650

 

Papers,please FTW.

"Build a new outpost that has an antenna and a border checkpoint" :)

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swjr-swis    1454

So... am I the only one that wants tourist EVA ability, just so I can kick them out of my craft at the nearest space rock for being too rowdy? :D

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whale_2    28

You're not the only one. I always wanted to make my tourists ride a bus to a spaceplane, get flown wherever they want, come back, get off the plane and be recovered from the ground while spaceplane is towed to parking, refueled, restocked and get ready for next flight.

I've made a first simple attempt for this, going to publish on github tomorrow and share a link so someone could test it and provide feedback.

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Wcmille    58

The technologies in KSP are all historical -- they exist in some form or fashion (even things like the Dawn drive). To my knowledge, there are space tourists, but there has never been a space tourist who went on an EVA.

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whale_2    28

This is Mark Shuttleworth de-boarding Soyuz capsule. 

http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/1539857

 

Mine, and some other people's point was about this - allow them to disembark in certain conditions. On the other hand, in human history there were only handful Moon missions (and no tourists), while in KSP landing on Mün is a routine operation. I guess when in not-so-far future we will have real Moon tourism, the tourists will be allowed to set their foot on Moon surface  (maybe for additional price, but who cares)

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