[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[ShotgunNinja]

@jeepwran You need to install CommunityResourcePack

[BashGordon33]

So I finished my science definitions for the Geiger counter. I'm fine if you want me to change some of them or if you want to change them. Below is a link to the file I uploaded on Filedropper. Not sure if its legit though, but it's what you used to upload your pre-release

http://www.filedropper.com/geigercounter

Muh science definition

EDIT: I downloaded Universal Storage and Planetary Bases and the sabatier reactor and the water purifier for both mods isn't considered by the background resource simulation. Can you please add capacity for this to be considered in the background

Edited July 28, 2016 by BashGordon33

[darloth]

The default profile for Kerbalism seems to have a food size/weight that contrasts fairly heavily with all of the available mods that give you a place to put it.  The small food container from Kerbalism holds 200 units which is 56kg, and it's a pretty small container, in the 0.625m cross section.  The Universal Storage basic food wedge 'supports' Kerbalism (in that it exists when Kerbalism is installed) but only holds 53 units of food (15kg) in a container that looks roughly twice the volume of the default small container.

Meanwhile, the Buckboard from Wild Blue Industries (I think pathfinder but they have a few, so it could have come from any of their base/rover expansion bits) supports all manner of resources, including food, where the big square crate holds only 319 units (90kg).  It can hold over 500kg of LFO for comparison.  That being said, it also only holds 319 units of oxygen which is a bit crazy too. 

I tried using parts from USI, but they won't hold food.  Several of them will still hold supplies but I don't think Kerbalism can use those at all in the default state and my career save is not yet far enough to see if there's a resource converter for them (perhaps the greenhouse).

You can probably put this down to inconsistent Kerbalism support in WildBlue and Universal Storage (and I can locally hotfix them by changing individual MM configs), but basically I'm struggling to find ways to attach sufficient food that aren't just stacking looooads of the default container.   Is there a well supported part pack for the default config?  Alternatively, have you considered adjusting the default config and the default small food container to at least attempt to fit in with the vague sizes suggested by other people's guesses?

(Edit: I'm using version 1.0.5, but the changelog doesn't mention anything about resource changes so I think this is still valid.)

 

(Edit2: Okay, so I've discovered that there ARE bigger parts to store this, I just hadn't seen or reached them on the tech tree yet.  Even so, I'm going to leave this post here because it highlights the size differences of the stuff I do have, but please consider my "How am I even supposed to use this?! complaint retracted.  Sorry!)

Edited July 28, 2016 by darloth
derp derp derp

[evileye.x]

@ShotgunNinja really like your work on Kerbalism, great job. 

Again, small idea to implement.

How about making LES useful? I used to play with this particular mod:

Unfortunately, no update for 1.1.x 

So the main idea is to have a chance of engine rapid overheat and explosion, only on ascent. Explosion also spreads on other parts. Also it is possible to have automatic ABORT action group activation.

Spoiler

 

Video demonstration

 

I think this concept will fit the scope of Kerbalism very well. I know about Test Flight, but it's too complicated for my taste.

Edited July 28, 2016 by evileye.x

[New Horizons]

How can I comment out features in a profile? After commenting out this

//@Kerbalism:FOR[EnableScrubber] {}

I still get Scrubbers on capsules.

 

 

 

 

[ShotgunNinja]

@BashGordon33 Great stuff, I'll include it in next version verbatim.

 

@darloth The small food container is really meant to enable manned missions on minmus. The pod contain 10 days worth of food, and adding that container extend the food supply to 30 days for 1 crew. That is enough for minmus and back even with less than optimal trajectories. That was the rationale behind these numbers. For containers from other mods I think the situation is not that bad, especially considering that Kerbalism was using complete different consumption rates before switching to CRP. I think the state of support from other mods is quite good actually.

 

@evileye.x That is interesting, I like explosions too  Also I agree the escape launch system is underused. I'll write this idea down and who knows, maybe I'll pick it up someday.

 

@New Horizons You also need to delete the bit under 'Add scrubbers to pods' in the profile. In next version I'll make this unnecessary for people that don't want to mess with the MM stuff.

[New Horizons]

Thank you. I expected this. But with removing @Kerbalism:FOR[EnableScrubber] {} you lose all life support features - no water is used up and so on. Maybe the term "EnableScrubber" is missleading here.

[ShotgunNinja]

@New Horizons No, that add (or not) the scrubber to all command pods. All the life support rules will still apply. I've uploaded an updated default profile here and realism profile here. These only require you to remove '@Kerbalism:FOR[EnableScrubber] {}', no other changes are necessary with the updated file. Download the one you use and replace the existing file with it.

[New Horizons]

Thanks alot again.

Another little question. When using the stock converter module - is there a way to show the actions in VAB. With this I want to circumvent the limitation to only one pair of recources in Kerbalism converters. Even with that filter matarial you can not have two output rescources.

*Just fantasy values in here*

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleResourceConverter
        ConverterName = Water Filter M
        StartActionName = Start W
        StopActionName = Stop W
        FillAmount = 0.95 
        AutoShutdown = true
        GeneratesHeat = true
        TemperatureModifier = 150
        UseSpecializationBonus = false
        DefaultShutoffTemp = 0.5          
        INPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = ElectricCharge
            Ratio = 0.010
            FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
        }
        INPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = WasteWater
            Ratio = 0.035
            FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
        }
        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
            ResourceName = Water
            Ratio = 0.02
            DumpExcess = true
        }
    }

[ShotgunNinja]

@New Horizons That should already be working with the recent changes (you need to update to 1.0.6+).

 

@BashGordon33 About the sabatier reactor and the water purifier: these too should already be considered if they are implemented as stock converters or generators. Or are they using custom modules?

[New Horizons]

As far as I can tell the Squad converter does not show up in VAB - same for stock fuel cell. It would be interesting to find out how it is considered for background emulations.

Can anyone confirm that the resource calculation in flight for food, water and filtration material is broken for realism config? In VAB calculations are normal, same for default config.

 

[Japcsali]

Is there a way to change how radiation is calculated? For example you could have a command module and a lander. You shield the command module to the max, because that's where your astronauts are going to be for 90% of the journey and you shield the lander just the minimum ammount. But since the games takes an average of all the shieldable parts means that the game doesn't consider the command module fully shielded. (Sorry for the bad explanation, english isn't my first language.)

Another problem: I researched half the tech tree, got at least two or three messages about increased manufacturing quality but when I look at the active missions from the space center the quality is "poor" on every ship, even on those ones I launched after unlocking the new tech.

[ShotgunNinja]

@Japcsali You can install ConnectedLivingSpace, that detect contiguous internal spaces in the vessel. If it is installed, this mod then evaluate shielding, living space and entertainment for each individual internal space. This was implemented explicitly to deal with the kind of scenarios you describe.

About the manufacturing quality, that could be a bug. Will check.
EDIT: Found it. It is a bug in the vessel monitor, the quality is the actual one - it is just being reported as poor for all vessels, will fix in next release

 

@New Horizons I'm going to double check this. Please consider that this was a recent addition and may be not working as intended. The stock converters should be simulated in a proper way: that being, if there isn't the input resource (or the input resource isn't being generated by another module) then the simulator correctly show you no generation of output resource. Stock fuel cells have always worked.

EDIT: for example, create a new vessel with only a command pod, then add a Fuel Cell
You will see that it isn't generating EC according to the planner, this is because you don't have Liquid Fuel & Oxydizer in the vessel.
Now try to add a small fuel tank, you can notice it add EC generation.

 

Edited July 28, 2016 by ShotgunNinja

[New Horizons]

It would be interesting to find out how it [stock converter] is considered for background emulations from Kerbalism - seems working on a first glance.

To my prior question: Can anyone confirm that the resource calculation in flight for food, water and filtration material is broken for realism config? In VAB calculations are normal, same for default config.

If I add the numbers for intervall and ratio from the default profil, it works fine. But even deviating from rate or intervall a little breaks it again.

	default profile	test 1	test 2	realsim profile
rate	2,5	1	1	1
interval	5400	5400	10800	21600
h	1,5	1,5	3	6
food/h	1,666666667	0,666666667	0,333333333	0,166666667
	ok	ok	defect	defect

defect means: "perpetual" is shown in flight.

 

[ShotgunNinja]

@New Horizons Thanks for this report. You are right, the reason is that the depletion estimates have a 'sensibility' to avoid floating point precision issues. That sensivity was recently moved from 10E-5 to 10E-4, and that's why the last two cases report perpetual (because the values per-second goes below 10E-4). Will fix in next version, thanks again.

Edited July 28, 2016 by ShotgunNinja

[N70]

Could the geiger counter defs include stuff for Outer Planets, too?

[raxo2222]

@ShotgunNinja I created small module manager for Keep Fit mod, that uses your centrifuge part, where kerbals can regenerate fitness level FYI.

If you plan introducing G effects on kerbals, then you don't have to - keep fit takes care of it - if you want realish values then you can adjust keep fit configs with module manager.

Normally kerbals are more resistant against G effects than humans.

Edited July 28, 2016 by raxo2222

[baldamundo]

Is there a way of marking a vessel as defunct and having background processing disabled for it? Otherwise won't the game end up slowing to a crawl having to process all your redundant old probes that are no longer being used?

[ShotgunNinja]

@baldamundo Actually, there is: just set a vessel as 'debris' and this mod will ignore it for all mechanics. About performace: a lot of effort went into optimization, and this mod is now able to simulate 80+ vessels in under 0.5ms per simulation step (on a mid-range processor). Early versions suffered performance problems as the number of vessels increased, but recent ones are 'almost' decoupled from the number of vessels.

[BashGordon33]

@ShotgunNinja I'm getting '<KERBAL> can't breathe' messages, even when I have full oxygen. And I did modify the modules, but only to change the rates of consumption/production to match with Kerbalism's realism profile, and removed some of the input/output resources.I use these dedicated modules so I get 100% return rates, to represent having a dedicated machine being more efficient than small scrubber modules. 

EDIT: Seem's to be a problem on my end. I looked on the vessel planner and it said my ship had NaN% electricity and NaN food left. And when I loaded it everything went black, my altimeter was blank and everything said NaN.

Edited July 29, 2016 by BashGordon33

[Kerbos]

Hey @ShotgunNinja, I've been poking around again all that thing about the NEED and stuffs and managed to actually make it work for Universal Storage (turns out @ ; , ! { weren't just fancy ways of making something easy to read), but now as you can imagine got a few issues with it.

Universal Storage has a piece of thing that holds CO2, since poisoning and intoxication is (I think) something you'll make possible in the future (also US has an oxygen purifier, works just like your scrubber, so I've poked the values to make it twice as faster as an MK1 pod but also doubled EC, works like a charm when you got 8 kerbals and 1 scrubber only) I've been trying to make it work, but the tank doesn't seems to register the emissions or something like that.

Here's my realism.cfg and the CO2 tanks config.

Also, where I'm supposed to save a fix config file like the one that @DarkonZ did? Because I've been doing the NEED thing inside each of those config files from the other mods, and I'm pretty sure that's not the way to do it

Edited July 29, 2016 by Kerbos

[ShotgunNinja]

@BashGordon33 First, a small introduction to NaN albebra:

NaN + x = NaN
NaN * x = NaN
NaN != NaN

Now, when the stock game has to compute the mass of a vessel, it sum the mass of all parts. The mass of a part is computed like this:

dry_mass + 'mass of 1 unit of resource' * amount

This mean that, if just a part in the vessel has NaN amount of resources, the whole vessel mass will end up being NaN. At that point the universe disappear.

So something is setting a resource amount to NaN. You said you see that in the planner too, that increase my suspect that may be caused by my code somehow.

Quick question: is one of the input or output rates in your custom converters set to zero? Anyway, send me the config of the modules you are using.

 

@Kerbos Personally I store the tweaks in a single file, instead of editing the mods directly. This is useful because you don't need to rewrite the tweaks when you update a mod for example. Just put then in a file with .cfg extension inside GameData.

[BashGordon33]

@ShotgunNinja Yeah, about that. I basically modified over 20 config files to be consistent with Kerbalism Realism profile. About 10 in Planetary Bases and another 10 in Universal storage, not to mention what I did to the realism profile. I'll send that as I'm pretty sure its causing the errors. Either that or it's something to do what I did to the sabatier and reclaimer modules for both Planetary Bases or Universal Storage. I built a base on Serran from New Horizons, with modded Planetary Base modules, and had a station with Universal Storage in the station orbiting it. But because Serran is an oxygenated moon I used my scrubbers for oxygen. I'm 99% sure it's either the modded moon i'm landed on, Pregas from Kerbol Plus, which is the only place I've had troubles at, or it's the sabatier and reclaimer modules that I've only just included in my Pregas Mission. But the problem with that is I had an error with my Pregas Assent Vechile, which did not include sabatier and reclaimer modules. Here is the files I think might be causing errors, plus my persistent file. 

EDIT: The PAV was touching, but not docked, to my station, with the S and R modules

http://www.filedropper.com/configs_5

 

Edited July 29, 2016 by BashGordon33

[ShotgunNinja]

@BashGordon33 Ok I taked a look, here is what I found:

1) You need to comment out all the lines of a module or resource in a MM patch, not just the initial MODULE/RESOURCE tag, so this

Spoiler

//MODULE
  {
    name = Recycler
    display_name = Water Filtration

    resource_name = Water // resource produced
    waste_name = WasteWater // waste resource recycled
    filter_name = FiltrationMaterial // filtration material used up in the process

    //Each unit of filtration material can clean 4 units of waste water at the total cost of 400 EC
    //1 unit of water per day per kerbonaut, so total cost of 100 EC per kerbonaut each day

    ec_rate = 0.00625 // ec per second
    waste_rate = 0.0000625 // waste removed per second
    filter_rate = 0.000015625 // filtration material used up per second

    @ec_rate *= #$/CrewCapacity$
    @waste_rate *= #$/CrewCapacity$
    @filter_rate *= #$/CrewCapacity$

    // disabled by default when added to a vessel
    // is_enabled = false
  }

  //RESOURCE
  {
    name = FiltrationMaterial

    // Command pods come with enough FM to filter +12 days worth of water.
    // This gives basic vessels a total of 16 days worth of supply.
    // For longer missions, you'll need a supply canister.

    amount = 3.0
    maxAmount = 3.0
    @amount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
    @maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
  }

 

should become this:

Spoiler

//MODULE
//{
//    name = Recycler
//    display_name = Water Filtration
//
//    resource_name = Water // resource produced
//    waste_name = WasteWater // waste resource recycled
//    filter_name = FiltrationMaterial // filtration material used up in the process
//
//    //Each unit of filtration material can clean 4 units of waste water at the total cost of 400 EC
//    //1 unit of water per day per kerbonaut, so total cost of 100 EC per kerbonaut each day
//
//    ec_rate = 0.00625 // ec per second
//    waste_rate = 0.0000625 // waste removed per second
//    filter_rate = 0.000015625 // filtration material used up per second
//
//    @ec_rate *= #$/CrewCapacity$
//    @waste_rate *= #$/CrewCapacity$
//    @filter_rate *= #$/CrewCapacity$
//
//    // disabled by default when added to a vessel
//    // is_enabled = false
//  }

//RESOURCE
//  {
//    name = FiltrationMaterial
//
//    // Command pods come with enough FM to filter +12 days worth of water.
//    // This gives basic vessels a total of 16 days worth of supply.
//    // For longer missions, you'll need a supply canister.
//
//    amount = 3.0
//    maxAmount = 3.0
//    @amount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
//    @maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
//  }

 

2) The PAV and Pregas Base vessels are ridden with NaN resource amounts. Try using this build that contain a fix for a possible generation of NaN values. And replace your savegame with this one: I set all the NaN amounts to full capacity instead (or to zero for waste resources).

[BashGordon33]

@ShotgunNinja Thanks, I really should just stick to playing the game shouldn't I? Also, muh science definitions! Should I work on definitions for various planet packs like OPM or NH? Or try to make definitions for the telemetry experiment? But due to the nature of telemetries expect vague and repetitive definitions.