ShotgunNinja

[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

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@RzTen1 I can't, the numbers are generated after the part is compiled

 

@lagcity613 Thanks! You are right i can't manage to solve CTT with MM, im investigating alternatives

 

@criverod1988 That is intended, if you want to restore stock behaviour remove the file ScienceTweaks.cfg

@DarkonZ , that would be amazing, i need that

 

EDOT: ConnectedLivingSpace support in next version, influence shielding from radiation & Quality of life stuff, optional

Edited by ShotgunNinja

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I was having the problem where crew wouldn't consume food. I made a clean install and added Kerbalism, then added mods one at a time to see if there was some conflict causing the problem. All seemed fine, so I started my career game again, and think I found the trigger for the bug.

 

After awhile, I used the in-game cheat menu to give full XP to my kerbals because I hate that Engineers have to do a tour of the solar system in order to fix a broken wheel. After I used that cheat, the bug returned.

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Is anyone using other parts in place of the food storage parts that come default here? If so, would you share your config?

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3 hours ago, lagcity613 said:

It won't make the mod stop working - but the resources won't weigh anything like they should. No fix I know of, the mod maker has to change the resource names.

The best solution IF @ShotgunNinja wants his mod to play nice with other resource driven mods would be to work CRP into his mod.  That was the intention of the CRP when the various mod developers made it.  Anyone who was around back for the original Interstellar mod, when we would have 3 mods each with a different version of "water" will remember how annoying all that crap was.

If he doesn't care about easy interopoerability with other mods then well, he can leave it alone in which case his mod will be explicitly incompatible with anything that uses CRP, or as you mentioned, rename his resources, which will let them work side by side albeit with the fun/annoying duplicate resources issue.

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58 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

The best solution IF @ShotgunNinja wants his mod to play nice with other resource driven mods would be to work CRP into his mod.  That was the intention of the CRP when the various mod developers made it.  Anyone who was around back for the original Interstellar mod, when we would have 3 mods each with a different version of "water" will remember how annoying all that crap was.

If he doesn't care about easy interopoerability with other mods then well, he can leave it alone in which case his mod will be explicitly incompatible with anything that uses CRP, or as you mentioned, rename his resources, which will let them work side by side albeit with the fun/annoying duplicate resources issue.

Completely agree. CRP is there for modders to use. It already has oxygen, water and food. @ShotgunNinja you just need to tweak the amount and the consumption rate to your liking. This way people who come from TAC LS can switch to your mod without any pain. People who use atmospheric scoops from other mods can collect oxygen at Kerbin and Laythe. Plus it will be easier to integrate other crops growing mods like Pathfinder.

Edited by Enceos

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56 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

The best solution IF @ShotgunNinja wants his mod to play nice with other resource driven mods would be to work CRP into his mod.  That was the intention of the CRP when the various mod developers made it.  Anyone who was around back for the original Interstellar mod, when we would have 3 mods each with a different version of "water" will remember how annoying all that crap was.

If he doesn't care about easy interopoerability with other mods then well, he can leave it alone in which case his mod will be explicitly incompatible with anything that uses CRP, or as you mentioned, rename his resources, which will let them work side by side albeit with the fun/annoying duplicate resources issue.

Well, the way he has it is great - 1 food = one day for one kerbal, one oxygen = one day, one kerbal. His food weighs nearly 178 times that of CRP's, and his oxygen weighs 7092 that of CRP's - I don't see a way to integrate them without losing the simplicity of 1 supply, one day. I think his best bet would be to name oxygen BrAtmosphere, for the balance of oxygen and nitrogen and such, and food to RationPacks, so that players understand that it is both food and water.

 

Actually, to heck with it, I'm going to do this in my game and see how it looks. I doubt very many people have played with the actual weight of the resources, as CRP's will be loaded first regardless.

Edited by lagcity613

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On April 21, 2016 at 6:54 AM, ShotgunNinja said:

@Artfact

All manned command pods come with an embedded scrubber, but its efficiency increase gradually with technologies. You can see its value by clicking with the RMB on the part, as well as in the planner when you are building the vessel. Note that the efficiency is determined at launch time, so researching new tech doesn't improve scrubbers on vessels already around.

I plan to add a geiger counter experiment. Right now you can see the amount of radiation the crew is exposed to in the tooltip of the radiation icon, in the monitor. That icon is only shown when the vessel is manned and exposed to some kind of radiation, so you can assume the environment is radiation-free if you don't see that icon.

About the CME: when it is ejected you'll get a message and have some time to react, based on distance from the sun. Then you'll get another message when it hit.

Yes!  Geiger counter experiment for your stuff!  Very, very impressed with your programming skills :)

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40 minutes ago, lagcity613 said:

Well, the way he has it is great - 1 food = one day for one kerbal, one oxygen = one day, one kerbal. His food weighs nearly 178 times that of CRP's, and his oxygen weighs 7092 that of CRP's - I don't see a way to integrate them without losing the simplicity of 1 supply, one day.

Well, yes, but then mid-integer transfers of resources become less convenient to work on.  In fact, I specifically recall that TACLS at one time has a 1 unit = 1 day = 1 kerbal, but when it switched to CRP, after some brief growing pains of save-breaking, everything was nicey nice.  With CRP, you have 1 unit = 1 liter of a resource.  Then, densities and masses could be configured to whatever degree of realism or parody a mod designer would want, and further made third-degree mod interactivity possible (such as TACLS being capable of switching as between stock / RSS / RO / 64k / Toy at the flick of a GameData switch, because 1 unit = 1 liter.)  @Felbourn did the same thing with his Project Odyssey series, where he custom-modded his career in sandbox from scratch to base kerbal resource consumption rates on some sort of real-world metabolism that took into account the apparent size and apparent mass of a kerbal against known biological trends that could be extrapolated from earth organisms.

While I recognize that 1 / 1 / 1 is convenient in certain scenarios, the stock game already measures in meters and not in "kerbal-heights" and seconds as opposed to "kerbal cardiopulmonary pulserate" increments.  Why not convert all other resources to some sort of inter-compatible system, such as metric, which is fundamentally DESIGNED to be inter-compatible?  (Full disclosure -- I live in the United States and kinda wish that my country would embrace the metric system, too.)

@ShotgunNinja I stumbled upon your mod for the first time tonight, and I must say that I really like the concept.  However, I'm diehard TACLS (and am kinda butthurt about TACLS not continuing development) and a diehard RT user.

I'm curious what your plans are surrounding TACLS, including the discussion on CRP compatibility, and I'm curious how you'd suggest I interpret what I've been reading that your system here entirely supplants RT.  The rest of your mod sounds absolutely faboo, but I'm nervous to make the switch without those two mods considered.  I also plan heavily around mods such as DangIt, StationScience, and I am somewhat ambivalent as between Kethane and Karbonite.  Do I understand correctly that you generally intend to replace those mods with your own integrated package instead of making something that can work with or without them, compatibly, as desired by a user?

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is there a way to add more battery to the command pods? I'm playing regular career and without batteries or solar panels i barely got half way through the orbit and i was already running out of battery. I had to cut my mission way short

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30 minutes ago, Lemonpie said:

is there a way to add more battery to the command pods? I'm playing regular career and without batteries or solar panels i barely got half way through the orbit and i was already running out of battery. I had to cut my mission way short

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6zvhd9uf2zaf1xe/FoxElectricityPatch.cfg?dl=0

Here you are, just open it up and edit the multiplier. I defaulted it to 10, so you WILL need to change it to keep your game balanced. I'd recommend 1.5, I think, to have an easier time. Drop the patch anywhere.

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Still no answer to RT2....even when many players suggested compromises? :( I'm sad...

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8 minutes ago, Toonu said:

Still no answer to RT2....even when many players suggested compromises? :( I'm sad...

Have you tried using them together? I've never used RT, and I'm not too familiar with the code inside of either mods, but in that case, I'd just say, test it. 

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10 minutes ago, Toonu said:

Still no answer to RT2....even when many players suggested compromises? :( I'm sad...

Look,  it's still in beta and anything is possible.  He may implement some similar features as RT2 in the future but if he doesn't oh well.  This mod is pretty awesome as is.  If you want RT2 then use RT2 bud. And yes you can run them together but as ShotgunNinja has said "why would you?" redundant  if you ask me

Edited by Berlin

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Loving this mod so far - mainly for the cabin space stuff. Wanted a reason to actually have to build ships instead of just putting Kerbals in exterior command chairs for multi year journeys. That said.. there are some major issues. The rate at which malfunctions happens needs to be reduced by like.. oh, 1000%? Seriously, I launched two small and simple comm satellites and then launched a manned mission to Minmus. In the nine days it took me to get out there I probably had my time warp stopped two dozen times by malfunctions and lost comm signals. Halfway there I figured out how to shut off the messages, so at least I wasn't being spammed with it.. but by the time I got back the darn satellites where already next to useless due to everything being reduced in effectiveness to 50% or w/e. They both had major malfunctions.. after a couple weeks in orbit. Launched another ship and then launched a crew up to it a couple days later.. and it already had several malfunctioning parts. No idea which ones though - it'd be nice to be able to see which parts are malfunctioning on any given ship, and what those malfunctions are doing.

Being forced to engineer some redundancy in case a critical part fails is fun - it adds to the challenge. Knowing that every single part on the ship is going to fail practically before the ship leaves the atmosphere? Not so much.

Also, my Kerbals are apparently being irradiated. I have no idea how much radiation they can take before they start turning green.. err, well, maybe not that. Anywho, it'd be nice to know how irradiated my Kerbals are.

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3 hours ago, Lemonpie said:

is there a way to add more battery to the command pods? I'm playing regular career and without batteries or solar panels i barely got half way through the orbit and i was already running out of battery. I had to cut my mission way short

If you deactivate the scrubber and don't use the reaction wheel too much, you should get at least one full orbit out of the built in battery.

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I just wanted to say that I'm using this in a new career game and enjoying it a lot.  It seems to be in the sweet spot between specificity and abstraction.

 I already ran into an in-game setbeck with my early Munar Scansat probe suffering a number of breakdowns, including damage to the single antenna before it could broadcast the science results of the radar scan.  It was very satisfying to launch a new Munar lander probe with multiple antennas to enable the crippled satellite to broadcast its science while the slowly deteriorating solar panels still produced enough power to make it work.  The Scansat probe is now on its last legs, and will probably be useless in another few weeks of game time.  Fun!

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8 hours ago, Storthos said:

I was having the problem where crew wouldn't consume food. I made a clean install and added Kerbalism, then added mods one at a time to see if there was some conflict causing the problem. All seemed fine, so I started my career game again, and think I found the trigger for the bug.

 

After awhile, I used the in-game cheat menu to give full XP to my kerbals because I hate that Engineers have to do a tour of the solar system in order to fix a broken wheel. After I used that cheat, the bug returned.

I had the same issue once, a Quicksave/quick load solved it. 

19 minutes ago, Enorats said:

The reliability of your ships will improve as you proceed through the tech tree.

in the early days they will not work for a long time (like in RL), but slowly you'll be able to build somethings reliable.

in this way you're also forced to think about the safety of your crew in space stations or interplanetary ships.

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Regarding negative prices: the "cost =" line in the part.cfg needs to be the "wet" cost - the cost of the part when completely full (regardless of how much it starts with).

Food Container has a "cost = 5000" and "maxAmount = 100".  Big Food Container has a "cost = 20000" and "maxAmount = 500".

Using Kerbalsim's definition for Food:

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = Food
  unitCost = 66.0

Then the Food cost of the small container is 100*66 = 6,600.  The Food cost of the big container is 500*66 = 33,000.  Doesn't matter how much it starts with (the "amount =" line), just the maxAmount.

This makes the dry containers themselves cost 5000-6600 = -1600, and 20000-33000 = -13000, thus the negative costs.

The "cost = " line in the .cfg file needs to be set to: cost of empty container + (maxAmount x resource cost).  Yes, this system is ridiculous, but that's modding for KSP. :)

I agree with other posters and hope you'll either adopt the CRP's definitions of Food/Oxygen/Waste/CO2, or rename your resources so they don't conflict.

Edited by hab136

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Apologies if this has already been covered, but has anyone else noticed they've been having difficulties taking Crew Reports or EVA Reports with Kerbalism installed?  I get that there's been some science tweaks, but is anyone aware of specific incompatibilities with other mods that might be causing this?  Right clicking on a capsule, either in flight or on the ground, didn't allow me to choose the "Crew Report" option button.  I went through and uninstalled/reinstalled my other mods, and it disappeared once I uninstalled Kerbalism. It happened both in a Career game in progress, and a brand new game.

List of mods I'd been using:

Spoiler

 

KIS/KAS

Kerbal Engineer

SpaceY Lifters

Strategia

Universal Storage

DMagic Orbital Science

Extraplanetary Launchpads

SCANSat

Chatterer

Environmental Visual Enhancements

Stock Visual Enhancements

Outer Planets Mod

Tarsier Space Tech

Near Future Solar/Electrical/Propulsion/Construction

 

 

I really like the all-encompassing range of realism tweaks that Kerbalism brings to the game, moreso than a lot of the other life support mods out there, so I'd love to be able to integrate it into my suite of mods.  However, if it's incompatible with one or more of the others, then that may be problematic.

Edited by DeltaVforVall

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Actually, isn't really incompatible with any of your mods and ShotgunNinja is working on the integration, we just need to wait.

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Thanks for this mod, I'm loving it!

I was just wondering why the Mk1 Crew Cabin does not have a scrubber. It has all the other things needed for spaceflight and is "upgraded for use in a spacecraft" so it makes sense for it to have a scrubber installed. 

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9 minutes ago, Nansuchao said:

Actually, isn't really incompatible with any of your mods and ShotgunNinja is working on the integration, we just need to wait.

Ah, well that is awesome news!  If it does integrate with the other mods, then I'll be more than happy to wait for a fix.

 

*waits two minutes* Is it there yet?  Is it there yet?  Is it there yet? :wink:

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Well i gave i try and i'm playing with both Kerbalism ans RT, so far RT works normally although the the Kerbalism probes report as connected RT overrides the use of commands, so you get kerbalism report as "connected" but when RT reports "no connection" it prevails over kerbalism on sending commands to the probe etc.

I've no programming skills but i believe a simple solution (i'm sorry if i'm wrong and that's totally impossible to do) kerbalism could "grab" the RT status and use it, instead of using it's own antennas and such, so when RT gets improved etc, kerbalism will directly benefit from that, and Kerbalism has a good degree of realism that appeal to most of RT fans, maybe it can be a simple solution to fix the most wanted feature to kerbalism from what i was reading (RT compatibility) but i can be completely wrong. 

I challenge someone that can actually program to test with both mods and try to understand what i'm saying :)

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8 hours ago, MisterFister said:

In fact, I specifically recall that TACLS at one time has a 1 unit = 1 day = 1 kerbal, but when it switched to CRP, after some brief growing pains of save-breaking, everything was nicey nice.  With CRP, you have 1 unit = 1 liter of a resource.  Then, densities and masses could be configured to whatever degree of realism or parody a mod designer would want, and further made third-degree mod interactivity possible (such as TACLS being capable of switching as between stock / RSS / RO / 64k / Toy at the flick of a GameData switch, because 1 unit = 1 liter.) 

Close :)  TAC-LS was one of the first to switch to 1L units, CRP followed suite, and we include it (and still do), with TAC-LS being the basis (tho if that mod ends up deprecated it would move to CRP curation like LqdCO2 and a few others).  And in general, the golden rule is that we don't mess with them - tho *how* a modder uses them is up to them.

I'd also join in and recommend @ShotgunNinja either consider CRP (for compatibility) or change the resources used by Kerbalism to something else, otherwise there are going to be conflicts, and given how prolific CRP is, his values are going to get overwritten a lot (which can cause some serious hilarity) with pretty regular frequency.

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@Storthos That sounds like its interacting in a weird way with the method i use to detect resque mission kerbals. To confirm it, would you please try loading the vessel containing one of those tweaked kerbals, you should see the 'we found it' message on bottom of the screen and consumption will kick in again. I'm also aware there are new facilities to track resque mission kerbals in 1.1, so I could just remove my hack completely in future.

 

@hab136 Thanks, I am aware of the issue and fixed it already in new version. I noticed that and fixed it in 0.9.9.1, but there was a problem with how i was using MM patch variables

Spoiler

// this was working in KSP+MM 1.0.5, but stopped working in 1.1
var = 660.0
@var *= #$CrewCapacity$
@cost += #$var$
-var = dummy

// this is working in 1.1, instead (assign to variable, then multiply by constant)
var = #$CrewCapacity$
@var *= 660.0
@cost += #$var$
-var = dummy

 

 

@Enorats That is intentional. Research advConstruction and things will last a lot more. That being said I can tweak the values a bit higher if everybody finds them too frustrating. You can also do the same with a simple MM patch, look at the Malfunction section here.

 

@JonGustav The MK1 is supposed to have the scrubber already. All manned command pods have one.

Also the Vessel Info window is coming, will show radiation accumulated by individual crew members among the other things.

 

@MisterFister, @RoverDude I didn't realize the shared-resource problem at first, and I do want to play nice. These are the problems i have to solve:

  • switch to CRP resources, adapt all containers to new densities, adapt all consumption rates to new densities
  • find a way to do not break the savegames, maybe by scanning all existing vessels at first load time from old version and just scaling all capacity & amount of parts
  • deal with the fact that my CO2 and Waste are massless, invisible pseudo-resources (and CRP are not)

 

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