ShotgunNinja

[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

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This is absolutely great and one hell of a fast development. Thank you!

 

I'll try this tonight after work

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@bertibott To some extent you can create long-lasting colonies with this mod, on a body with a magnetosphere, with breathable atmosphere (eg: Laythe), with greenhouses and with plenty of quality-of-life stuff. But its not like you can expect to go in a place without those conditions and stay there forever, just like in reality. You'll have to resupply and rotate the crew. Remember, space is hard! :)

All those mod works, with the exception of the curved solar panels of Near Future (working on it). SCANsat even get ad-hoc support for background EC consumption. This is still beta and I didn't test it explicitly against KIS/KAS for example. Let me know if there are problems.

@Bersagliere81 Water overlapped too much with the other mechanics in a way or another and so it was excluded from the original design. I could add it in future, or not. Still undecided about that. I'll try to make this work with as many other mods as I possibly can, but not if they overlap in functionality.

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I'm really excited to try this after work tonight.  

One question though, and I apologize if this has already been asked....but is there a way to pick and choose which elements we want to play with, or is it an all or nothing proposition? 

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For the radiation over super long travels like the edges of OPM systems.

Maybe if they stay in a radiation free environment for a long time their radiation level can "go away". Like on the way to the system's edge you make a stop at your permanent Laythe colony for a few months and then start the travel again.

 

Related to radiation (and sorry if it's oibvious I cant try right now and when I tried in 1.1.5 i didnt find it) is there a way to find the current radiation level of a single kerbal ? and does it goes away if they get back to kerbin or are they always doomed to die after 5 years of space travel ?

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This is one of the best mods I've ever seen! You took all the dangers of space travel, kerbalised them, and put them all together in one mod! The textures / models are superb and stockalike! I'm downloading this mod right now and subscribing to this thread. Oh, yes, and it's for the version that came out YESTERDAY. Can't wait to see what else this mod has in store! - Cy4n

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@ShotgunNinja, I've been playing around with this mod for the past few hours, and I've got a few thoughts (most of which I expect not to be possible):

 

  • It would be really great if there were more configuration settings.  Many mods have a settings.cfg file somewhere that you can edit, and it would be nice if we could set things like resource consumption rates ourselves without having to go into the actual game code.  This would go a long way to making the mod more compatible with other mods.  I, for one, would really enjoy if there was a settings file where you can change the tech nodes that apply an improvement, change LS consumption rates, and so on so that it can be used in more varied circumstances.  
  • Building off of this, the limited settings you have implemented do allow for compatibility with other mods.  I managed to effectively remove the 'signal' aspects by just giving all parts an antenna module with a very tiny EC draw and a very large range; with more configuration settings, similar things would be possible with the other parts where people are finding the mod overlaps.  You've made an amazing mod with several novel aspects (especially the radiation and background processing portions), and it would be nice to see it work with other things. 
  • I know you've already said you don't want it, but it would be nice if there was a way to define new LS resources; I'd really like to play with water as a required resource since it's such a huge factor, but I can understand your design decision.  
  • It would be interesting if CO2 played more of a role in the mod.  Perhaps, when the vessel's crew produces CO2 and there's no space onboard for it they die?  Each crewed part could have a small "COtank" that's just the internal cabin air, and filling it up would be equivalent to reaching a toxic partial pressure of CO2.  Right now, CO2's just the raw material for scrubbers and can be left to build up for years if you have a large enough oxygen stockpile; a proper CO2 poisoning aspect would really take advantage of that background processing capability.
  • Radiation shielding shouldn't have an equal max on all parts.  Long-term habitation parts shouldn't have a low limit for shielding; we should be able to keep a crew in space for decades at the expense of several tons of shielding with a good design.  Things like crew capsules, however, should have a lower limit on max shielding.  Also, if you're trying to implement the "storm cellar" idea, why not just define each part as having x crew slots with a given amount of shielding, and then average the shielding of the y highest slots on the vessel to find the effective shielding (where x is the crew capacity of the part and y is the number of crew on the mission)?  That way concentrating shielding in one place has a significant benefit, but we don't have to micromanage crew on long-duration voyages.  
  • Could we possibly get a more in-depth reliability mechanic?  RNG breakdowns are fine, but they can feel rather annoying.  For instance, things like repeatedly reusing a part like an engine should increase chance of breakdowns, and electronics should experience "wear" from radiation (if this is already implemented, sorry, I may just not have noticed it).  As well, it would be nice to have something where flying a part increases its MTBF, since it's giving the engineers on the ground a chance to iron out the design via "test flights".

 

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Hi, @ShotgunNinja this mod you made is really great, but I have some questions. I'm sorry but I haven't time to read all posts in topic so sorry for repeated questions. First of all, is this working for multiple solar systems or not? RSS Expanded or other mods of this type.

Second thing is, if this mod cooperate with RemoteTech2, TAC/USI/Snacks or other mods of this type? I red few things about it at start of topic, but still, how it work?

This mod is really good and combine one of my favorite mods (RT, USI LS, malfunctions, other)...

Thanks

Toonu

 

 

Edited by Toonu

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@DarkGod I'm going to rebalance the radiation using some other methods, and extend it a bit. So that in a way or another you'll be able to reach the farthest body of the solar system no matter the planet pack.

For the current level of radiation of the Kerbals, the only feedback I give the user is the 'hearth' icon turning yellow/red in the monitor. The tooltip then show a list of Kerbals and their health problems, including radiation. I did it limited like this on purpose, I didn't think more granularity in the feedback is required.

But also I'm thinking of building a more detailed 'info window' that you can pop out per-vessel, in addition to the monitor, to show extra stuff including a bar of radiation and 'stress' for the kerbals.

When they get back to Kerbin the awesome medical facilities of the KSP fix them good as new :) Not realistic by any means but anything different and the player would have just adapted by firing the kerbals after a while. And that was unacceptable in my opinion.

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Ah well if you have plans to address it it's all good:)

 

The info window stuff should work for me yeah; this way if you keep tens of kerbals in a station in orbit you dont have to remember which one is too radiated for the mission you want :wink:

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51 minutes ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@jdub3350 All or nothing, I'm afraid you'll have to play with all the mechanics.

Works for me, I'll just have to get used to a higher level of failure, haha. I think the concept is excellent, it brings in a lot of new facets and considerations.  

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15 minutes ago, ShotgunNinja said:

I'm going to rebalance the radiation using some other methods, and extend it a bit. So that in a way or another you'll be able to reach the farthest body of the solar system no matter the planet pack.

Based on your description, your planned method will be applicable to resacling the entire solar system via Sigma Dimensions, 64K, RO/RSS.Is that a correct statement?

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@cy4n Thanks! Very appreciated :)

@Charlie_Zulu

Quote
  • It would be really great if there were more configuration settings.  Many mods have a settings.cfg file somewhere that you can edit, and it would be nice if we could set things like resource consumption rates ourselves without having to go into the actual game code.  This would go a long way to making the mod more compatible with other mods.  I, for one, would really enjoy if there was a settings file where you can change the tech nodes that apply an improvement, change LS consumption rates, and so on so that it can be used in more varied circumstances.  

Have a look here. These are the settings I currently got, and some others are generated on-the-fly. I can't possibly expose the user to that complexity. Sooner or later I'm going to make a settings.cfg however (probably later), with some less complex options.

Quote
  • Building off of this, the limited settings you have implemented do allow for compatibility with other mods.  I managed to effectively remove the 'signal' aspects by just giving all parts an antenna module with a very tiny EC draw and a very large range; with more configuration settings, similar things would be possible with the other parts where people are finding the mod overlaps.  You've made an amazing mod with several novel aspects (especially the radiation and background processing portions), and it would be nice to see it work with other things. 

I didn't think of that. Sure you can kind of disable the signal mechanics that way (there still be occlusion from bodies), but I'm replacing the stock data transmitter with my own module. The same thing does other mods that implement a similar thing (eg RT, AntennaRange), so one of the two mod will not find a stock data transmitter to replace. I have to go through multiple total refactors before being able to disable a mechanic. Long, boring stuff. Maybe I'll do it one day, maybe not. Can't promise anything in that regard.

Quote

I know you've already said you don't want it, but it would be nice if there was a way to define new LS resources; I'd really like to play with water as a required resource since it's such a huge factor, but I can understand your design decision

I'm gonna do a ninja evasion on this one :)

Quote
  • It would be interesting if CO2 played more of a role in the mod.  Perhaps, when the vessel's crew produces CO2 and there's no space onboard for it they die?  Each crewed part could have a small "COtank" that's just the internal cabin air, and filling it up would be equivalent to reaching a toxic partial pressure of CO2.  Right now, CO2's just the raw material for scrubbers and can be left to build up for years if you have a large enough oxygen stockpile; a proper CO2 poisoning aspect would really take advantage of that background processing capability.

Forgive the ignorance, but can't excess CO2 just be tossed out of board? That is the way I'm doing it right now. Everything with a scrubber in it has a small capacity of CO2 (you don't see it but its there). When they consume Oxygen, they produce CO2. If there is CO2 available, the scrubber convert a part of it back into Oxygen. I avoided the 'buildup' and other exploits by giving a very small capacity.

Quote
  • Radiation shielding shouldn't have an equal max on all parts.  Long-term habitation parts shouldn't have a low limit for shielding; we should be able to keep a crew in space for decades at the expense of several tons of shielding with a good design.  Things like crew capsules, however, should have a lower limit on max shielding.  Also, if you're trying to implement the "storm cellar" idea, why not just define each part as having x crew slots with a given amount of shielding, and then average the shielding of the y highest slots on the vessel to find the effective shielding (where x is the crew capacity of the part and y is the number of crew on the mission)?  That way concentrating shielding in one place has a significant benefit, but we don't have to micromanage crew on long-duration voyages.  

That is brilliant, and simpler than the contiguous space I had in mind. It will resolve a bunch of stuff all at once i think.

Quote
  • Could we possibly get a more in-depth reliability mechanic?  RNG breakdowns are fine, but they can feel rather annoying.  For instance, things like repeatedly reusing a part like an engine should increase chance of breakdowns, and electronics should experience "wear" from radiation (if this is already implemented, sorry, I may just not have noticed it).  As well, it would be nice to have something where flying a part increases its MTBF, since it's giving the engineers on the ground a chance to iron out the design via "test flights".

I kept reliability dead simple. Especially engines, when they malfunction they only overheat faster. The reason is that I remember experiences from DangIt when the Engine just fail and you are screwed. And its not really possible to have redundant engines in every missions. THAT is playing with dice. This way instead, you get at least a chance of solving whatever new limit the malfunction imposed to you.

Right now radiation doesn't accelerate malfunction rate, but it is in the todo and not hard to implement.

Test flight I really like the idea, I saw another mod that did the same. It shouldn't be even that hard to do, you just have to build a DB of part types and accumulate time in it, per-part. And then a GUI to show the thing. Things like this is what I want to add to this mod. I want to add things that are easy to do, easy to maintain, easy to balance, fun to play and hard to master.

 

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@ShotgunNinja Just found your mod when looking through the released mods mods section. The name of the mod caught my eye ^_^. First thought - "Kerbalism" sounds like some kind of disease or a political order, like Communism. I must tell, you have amazing coding skills and a wonderful taste for UI design. Welcome to the modding community! I hope your love for this game won't let you become a one-timer. There were lots of nice mods in the past who lost their authors. I also really admire your sense of balance.

I'm definitely going to test this creation. Though, adapting this to my game will take quite a while. Stockalike Station Parts by Nertea, Pathfinder, UKS parts will require lots of config writing. I'll be glad to collaborate and share this stuff.

I really loved the challenge of controlling the RemoteTech probe by programming actions and setting up Smart Parts triggers before the probe goes out of comm range. But I think I'll get rid of it for now just to get my paws on your mod :3

Edited by Enceos

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1 minute ago, Enceos said:

 "Kerbalism" sounds like some kind of disease or a political order, like Communism. 

Or Kerbals eating other Kerbals :huh:

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G

1 minute ago, cy4n said:

Or Kerbals eating other Kerbals :huh:

Great idea! When kerbals get mad, they will eat themselves! :D:D:D xD

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1 minute ago, Toonu said:

G

Great idea! When kerbals get mad, they will eat themselves! :D:D:D xD

That would actually be a cool mechanic, if you run out of food, one Kerbal eats the others...

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@Enceos Thank you. Kerbalism was meant to be a Kerbal version of humanism (lying, it was just a match between Kerbal and realism).

Any MM patch you manage to make, I will be flattered to include in the mod verbatim. I did write some documentation for the modules here.

SmartParts should work when a probe isn't controllable, as I'm only locking user input. I'll have a look at how its doing things to check it.

 

@thunder175 Correct. Sorry I missed your post earlier. This mod make absolutely no absumptions about the features of the solar system, with the notable exception that it only support 1 star and that star has to be the body at index 0.

 

Edited by ShotgunNinja

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ShotgunN,

Too bad you don't have a version of 0.9.9.1 for KSP 1.0.5. I finally got KSP 110_1230 setup and it seems to be behaving somewhat liquid-poorly. Come to think of it, the pre-release wasn't all that impressive either. Besides, nearly half the mods I use have yet to be updated. From the looks of it, that's going to take a looong time, or maybe not at all. Of the mods that I do have installed, most of them seem a little wonky in some way or another. Hopefully, with your 1.1.0 version you'll get slammed with a ton of new posts, questions, stupid posts, suggestions, bug reports and contributions. Wait, the flood gates have already opened. Supposedly, that will be a good thing...? Well, maybe not so much for the modder.

It's possible I'm confused, but I have a question regarding the scrubber efficiency values. Are these somehow hard coded in your mod? If so, then how would someone change the techid/requirements regarding other tech trees? I would think the last two would be much further out in the CTT and possibly the EngineeringTT.


LifeSupport.cfg:

@RDNode:HAS[#id[scienceTech]]
{
@description = ... [Scrubber efficiency: 80%]
}
@RDNode:HAS[#id[experimentalScience]]
{
@description = ... [Scrubber efficiency: 90%]
}


Since I use and rather like DMagic Orbit Science, I'd guess that a patch would be needed (if possible) to bring that stuff more in line with how you envision your mod to operate. I've seen where you changed the Goo mass in Kerbalism. Maybe some of the DMagic stuff might need some Kerbalism love?

Oh, another suggestion for your GUI with the new food and oxygen readout. Is that truly 4 days food left or is it 4.2 or perhaps 4.9 days food? It ain't 3 and certainly not 5. How about a single digit decimal for better accuracy?

HTH,

EDIT: And no, I didn't type "liquid-poorly". Guess the word I used used was too naughty. Gaffaw!

Edited by DarkonZ

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@ShotgunNinja I haven't had a chance to play with this yet, mainly becase of all of the mods I have, but I'd like to contribute, I might make antenna configs for a few mods. I'll try to play with it today and see how I like it, since I really love the concepts in the mod and your dedication.

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Does anyone else find their kerbals gasping for air and suffocating on their first trip escaping the atmosphere in career? My first launch, just jeb with a hammer, to get that first escape atmo up to 70 - 80k. By the time I start falling back, it says he's gasping. Don't the modules have co2 scrubbers? When looking at it in the builder, it says it has no storage capacity or recycling of oxygen...

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@DarkonZ Yeah I noticed that 1.1.0 is still a bit unpolished (ahem...).

The things that are gradually unlocked with technologies are hard-coded right now. The values will probably stay this way, as they are a pain to balance. The technology at this point I'll put it in the config file (that I'm going to implement in a while). Definitely for EngineeringTechTree this is required, its too huge and reorganize the techs too much.

DMagic science stuff I like and definitely go for it :)

The gui show an integer number of day because all food consumptions happen at meal time. The precision is set to 2 decimal digits like Oxygen. But i understand what you mean, it doesn't include the time from 'now' to 'next meal'. I'll fix that in the next version.

 

@legoclone09 Sure, those are welcome! Have a look here, under the section Antenna. You'll notice there isn' any numeric range to specify, but a 'scope': that's because I then calculate the ranges from the features of the solar system. To see what each scope is supposed to mean, have a look at how I'm using them with the stock antennas here and with a mini antenna there.

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3 minutes ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@legoclone09 Sure, those are welcome! Have a look here, under the section Antenna. You'll notice there isn' any numeric range to specify, but a 'scope': that's because I then calculate the ranges from the features of the solar system. To see what each scope is supposed to mean, have a look at how I'm using them with the stock antennas here and with a mini antenna there.

After looking at the antenna configs they seem very easy to create and are simple! I'll try to do a few soon, but I might not get to it. I hope to, though.

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This mod looks amazing! I can't wait to try it out. I'm also making a realism mod that would go nicely with this. 

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Wow, this mod is really awesome :)

 

Love that background simulation, really gives you the feeling of controlling a space program!

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