The Grand KSP 1.1 Discussion Thread

[Basto]

7 minutes ago, Senpai said:

Are the landing gear going to be changed at all?

I want to start a new save but I do not want to play with 1.1's gear as it is. Would like some idea of if/when it's fixed so I know whether it'll be 1.0.5 or 1.1 that I play with.

Squad knows that wheels and gear are still broken and are working on it. There were allot of issues with them in pre and it seems like every time they fixed something it broke something else.  From the sound of things they had to do some creative and clunky workarounds to make wheels work right in unity 5.

I am hoping we see a patch soon with some fixes. But it may be a while before they are working flawlessly again. 

[dlrk]

The UI scale really needs to be fixed.

[Jhawk1099]

12 minutes ago, dlrk said:

The UI scale really needs to be fixed.

Very true

[steve_v]

25 minutes ago, J.Random said:

What is your pitch angle at landing?

Last time, about 5°. The aircraft in question is a taildragger, as light as I can build with the mk1 cockpit and fixed gear, so it's always coming down on the main wheels first anyway.

On the odd occasion I get it on the deck without the gear exploding (<1m/s vertical seems to do it), it goes into a drunken sway and rolls over (suspension enabled) or bounces, then rocks, then spins out (suspension disabled). Using the Lvl 1 runway with the apropriate (early) tech unlocked is suicide.

Hell, even takeoff is a 50/50 as to whether the gear explodes from "overstress", and if you surive that it's 50/50 whether you get off the ground before the suspension sway takes the wings off.

22 minutes ago, Basto said:

Squad knows that wheels and gear are still broken and are working on it. There were allot of issues with them in pre and it seems like every time they fixed something it broke something else.  From the sound of things they had to do some creative and clunky workarounds to make wheels work right in unity 5.

This shouldn't have been let out of prerelease. Landing gear are totally broken, wheels and landing legs almost as much. Sounds like a case of "this bug too hard, screw it" to me.

Edited April 22, 2016 by steve_v

[Senpai]

17 minutes ago, Basto said:

I am hoping we see a patch soon with some fixes. But it may be a while before they are working flawlessly again. 

I'm not so much worried about flawless, I'd just like some improvement in the very near future.

I know the current limitations, the workarounds, and such. But the level of mucking about with wheels required at the moment is a real chore.

The "run experiment" button often pops up under the "reset, transmit or keep" window for experiments that have been run. It's a real pain when running multiple experiments. A real pain as often you'll only have a short time window to get them all done. Fudging around the UI really gets in the way.

[J.Random]

2 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Last time, about 5°. The aircraft in question is a taildragger, as light as I can build with the mk1 cockpit and fixed gear, so it's always coming down on the main wheels first anyway.

On the odd occasion I get it on the deck without the gear exploding (<1m/s vertical seems to do it), it goes into a drunken sway and rolls over (suspension enabled) or bounces, then rocks, then spins out (suspension disabled). Using the Lvl 1 runway with the apropriate (early) tech unlocked is suicide.

Old landing gear didn't like camber. New wheels don't like both camber and caster. Caster leads to wheels clinging to surface or clipping through it, and when it happens, it generates uneven wheel stress, swaying, bucking and/or gear destruction.

After playing with pre-1.1, I think your best chance at the moment is to have flaps to get higher lift for lower velocity on takeoff and landing (pitching wings also helps), come in almost level and control your vertical velocity with thrust instead of pitch.

[bewing]

Actually, I just tried to create a little bug report on a different issue -- and the bugtracker is broken right now anyway. Can't create issues with text in them.

(The "Pre-release" tracker has been disabled, but the main bugtracker has not been re-enabled yet. Oops!)

[steve_v]

21 minutes ago, J.Random said:

Old landing gear didn't like camber. New wheels don't like both camber and caster.

Known. Irritating, but known. I've already compensated for caster at takeoff / landing attitude. Besides, it's a taildragger - it can't have zero caster in all situations, otherwise it won't take off.

Wheels are by definition round, right? Assuming the cowling doesn't clip the ground (yes, I checked) if caster is what's going on here then this behaviour is clearly a bug.

I also tried a tricycle setup with single nosewheel, wheels placed dead straight and level. Nosewheel exploded @ 30 m/s. Non starter.

21 minutes ago, J.Random said:

After playing with pre-1.1, I think your best chance at the moment is to have flaps to get higher lift for lower velocity on takeoff and landing (pitching wings also helps), come in almost level and control your vertical velocity with thrust instead of pitch.

I really don't know how much slower and flatter I can come in - as I said, ~0.5 m/s vertical velocity @ 50-55m/s. Extremely sedate by 1.0.5 standards. Adding more static AoA might get me down to real cessna speeds, maybe, but having to go that slow is ridiculous - especially considering we don't really have the parts to build aircraft that light, or piston engines for that matter.

---

I see they break other things too: Just converted my ~40t VTOL to the new gear, go for a quick hover and land a touch hard at ~1.5 m/s vertical. The gear survive... And the runway explodes.

I smell a rat somewhere in the ground collision detection, or the forces generated.

Edited April 22, 2016 by steve_v
Obvious spelling error.

[regex]

1 hour ago, Senpai said:

Are the landing gear going to be changed at all?

Very likely.  However, the new 1.1 reality is landing gear with weight and impact tolerances, so you'll have to use gear suited for the situation and plane going forward anyway.

[Kiro]

1 hour ago, Basto said:

Actually I would wholeheartedly disagree with this. Career mode is actually your best bet right now. Most of the current issues are with wheels and landing legs which you can't even get in career mode for a while. 

I started a new career mode game as soon as the patch went live and been having a blast. I probably have about 25 hours into it now and had only one crash and the only bugs I have noticed so far are with the mods I am using (and looking at my log file I think a mod caused the crash).

 

 

I've started too many career games only to be have the save game brake due to updates. I'd rather wait for a truly stable release. 1.1 is a great improvement from 1.0.5 but there are still plenty of important bugs that need to be addressed.

[Basto]

1 minute ago, Kiro said:

I've started too many career games only to be have the save game brake due to updates. I'd rather wait for a truly stable release. 1.1 is a great improvement from 1.0.5 but there are still plenty of important bugs that need to be addressed.

I started a career game at the beginning of 1.1 pre and it did not break during any of the many versions. I think you are pretty safe, but I get your reluctance. 

[Johnny Wishbone]

I'm really trying to give 1.1 a fair shot and like it, but the more I've played it the more I've run into things like this that just frustrate and irritate me:

 

I have a ship consisting of a MK1 capsule (with parachute), a science jr and a heat shield that I'm trying to re-enter Kerbin's atmosphere from a high orbit. Pretty basic stuff. Apoapsis of about 255km and I set my periapsis at around 40km (well inside the atmosphere, and well above what used to be a "safe" reentry altitude). In 1.0.5 and earlier, I had absolutely no problems bringing in this ship, and was able to come in much steeper without issue. However, in 1.1, I now have the science jr overheating and exploding during reentry, despite having a heat shield below it that is barely burning off any ablator. Frustrating and irritating. Like I said, this ship had no problems reentering in previous versions, and at much steeper angles. So something changed *again* with the atmosphere, reentry heating, or part (over)heating in 1.1.

 

[EDIT]

After opening this topic, I scanned further down the page and see someone else opened a topic about the same issue with service bays. Apparently that is a known bug in 1.1. I'm guessing the same thing is happening to the materials bay?

 

Sorry for posting a new topic about the same issue. If mods want to merge these threads that's fine with me. Or they can delete this one as I've replied in the other thread as well.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Johnny Wishbone

[Johnny Wishbone]

I just opened a thread about this same thing with the materials bay. Guess I should have scanned further down the page before opening a new topic.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Johnny Wishbone

[softweir]

That doesn't sound right! It might be worth checking the Support forum for other reports of this and see what is said there.

A quick workaround might be to put a fuel tank between the heatshield and the science jr. It might even work to put a decoupler - one of those skinny, ring-like ones - between them, though the fuel tank would be more sure to absorb and insulate. You may find other parts are useful, such as battery packs.

Finally, try the inflatable reentry shield instead of an ablator heatshield.

[softweir]

4 hours ago, katateochi said:

I agree, we should discuss bugs and ideally get someone else to confirm them before flinging things into the tracker and overloading the poor devs!

In that case, discuss it in the Support forum!

[EivlEvo]

Have you noticed that they have an option for you to close the science bay so that it's internals are protected from heating? Are you perhaps leaving it open (as has always been the case) and this is maybe causing the experiments to heat up too rapidly? They also added (for some stuff) an internal max and external max temp. So this might be the issue...

[DoToH]

7 minutes ago, Johnny Wishbone said:

However, in 1.1, I now have the science jr overheating and exploding during reentry, despite having a heat shield below it that is barely burning off any ablator.

Close the science Jr doors (if opened, they get out of the cover of the heatshield). There is an option in the right click menu

[Johnny Wishbone]

Just now, DoToH said:

Close the science Jr doors (if opened, they get out of the cover of the heatshield). There is an option in the right click menu

I noticed that option on the science jr, but thought it was more for aesthetics and not actually for function. I will try that. Thank you for the tip.

[stenole]

I think there are a couple instances of this bug on the tracker already.

http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/8974

[bewing]

Rocking your RV with adsw helps a lot too. You need to increase the aerodynamic drag, especially in the upper atmosphere. Did you bring your RV in sideways?

It's not the heating that changed. The MK1 pod has less drag now, so you come in faster.

Edited April 22, 2016 by bewing

[bewing]

It's not quite the same issue, actually. If you were to put two SciJrs on your RV, you would see that something different happens, which is a bug.

[EivlEvo]

Lesigh.

Had my base finally setup. Got my plane there. Science lab. Mining stuff. The whole nine. Of course the first time I loaded it... it's sliding (on the slightest... maybe 2 degree incline) nbd. Pack the drills up, and move it to a more level surface. Switch over to my Duna plane, fly it back to the Duna base, and dock it. Well. This caused it to do a crack the whip type ripple, and blew all the tires on the science half of the base and 2 of my gigantor solar panels just fell off.

Not really sure if these are bugs or what tbh. Not even sure why I'm posting other than to whine. Probably time to burn and rebuild it seems. Be a good time to rotate the crew out anyway.

[Foxster]

I'd leave those bases until we get a hot fix and go do something else for a bit. You might well find they behave a little more sanely then. 

[EivlEvo]

Yeah... tbh I think my plan is probably to mothball them for a bit and head further out. Or... just go play cities skylines lol.

[Basto]

23 minutes ago, Johnny Wishbone said:

I noticed that option on the science jr, but thought it was more for aesthetics and not actually for function. I will try that. Thank you for the tip.

Yep you need to close the doors. This will solve your problem.