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[1.11.x] IndicatorLights v1.7: Small, convenient, informative.


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@Snark, this is fantabulous!  I like lots of little lights on my ships :)

I regret not having given this a look before.  You might want to change the advertising picture to show some of the part indicators (docking ports, SAS units, etc.) because I had no idea that was going on here.  I just saw the new part and thought that was all it was.

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2 hours ago, MK3424 said:

How about using the colours of portraitstats to indicate which kerbals are inside the craft?

Portrait Stats is definitely cool... maybe a bit less vital post-1.1, though?  (Since the stock game now shows profession and experience on the portraits, albeit without the colorful icons).

In any case:  Actually, looks like I'm pretty close already anyway, I guess DMagic and I must have similar thought processes on some level.  :)  We both ended up using blue for scientists and green for engineers.  DMagic uses red for pilots.  That actually was my first thought for pilot-- except that to me, "red light" = "something wrong", so I tweaked it a bit to make it orange instead.

However, if you'd like pilots to be red (or pink, or any other color you like):  you can!  As I just pointed out to  @jlcarneiro a few posts above, the colors are configurable.  So you can make 'em anything you want.

13 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

I regret not having given this a look before.  You might want to change the advertising picture to show some of the part indicators (docking ports, SAS units, etc.) because I had no idea that was going on here.  I just saw the new part and thought that was all it was.

Thanks!  Well, the mod's only been out for a couple of weeks, so there hasn't been a whole lot of "before" in which you could have taken a look...

Yeah, I've thought about tinkering with the photo.  I'll probably get around to it at some point.  For now I'm not too worried about trying to "broadcast" the mod-- it's still in pre-release, this is like the beta.  Until I get it to the point where I'm calling it "released", all I really care about is having enough users that I get a decent feedback stream.  In just a couple of weeks, it's already generated a hundred posts in this thread and (judging from the SpaceDock download graphs) garnered something more than a thousand regular users, which is a far steeper angle of ascent than I've seen on any of my other mods (even BetterBurnTime, by far my most popular mod up to now, wasn't so quick off the mark).

So "lack of feedback" does not currently appear to be among my problems.  :)

Keep it coming, guys!

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Thanks for this mod, great work. Space Stations in particular look really great at night with the battery and docking port indicators. I think its really wonderful and does much for immersion that it shows information 'in the world' instead of on some random UI element.

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9 hours ago, Snark said:

@jlcarneiroPortrait Stats is definitely cool... maybe a bit less vital post-1.1, though?  (Since the stock game now shows profession and experience on the portraits, albeit without the colorful icons).

 

More than the icons, I like that you don't have to hover your mouse over a portrait to see what class and level they are.

In fact, that's exactly what I like about this mod right here. You can just glance at a battery and see if it's having trouble.

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Hi all,

I've posted pre-release v0.8 of IndicatorLights.  New with this release:

  • Added status indicators to the large and small ISRU units.
  • Added crew indicators to the Mk2 cockpit and Mk2 crew cabin.
  • Made the default on/off status of crew indicators configurable (so if you really like them and generally want them on all the time, you can set this to true so they'll be on by default).

isru.png

  • Each ISRU unit has four color-coded on/off status lights.  Cyan = LFO, yellow = monopropellant, green = liquid fuel, blue = oxidizer.
  • Currently it's just a simple on/off indicator.  In the future I may come up with a way to show heat status as well.

(The eagle-eyed among you may notice that the order of the lights on the big ISRU is not the same as the small ISRU.  That's not sloppiness on my part, it's by design. It turns out that the actual order of the converters as they show up in the right-click menu are different for the two parts, and I thought it advisable to keep the order of the lights the same as the order on the menu.  So it's a feature, not a bug. If it bothers you, you can re-order them via ModuleManager config.)  :wink:

Enjoy!

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I've got a wishlist item for you: support for Ven's Stock Revamp.  I've just installed it (thanks to 64-bits), and it's gorgeous, but it doesn't quite mesh (heh) with IndicatorLights.  Thankfully, it only deletes the first MODEL node in the affected parts, so your lights are all in place, but often misaligned or even floating in midair (e.g. the ISRU parts).

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3 minutes ago, Kerbas_ad_astra said:

I've got a wishlist item for you: support for Ven's Stock Revamp.  I've just installed it (thanks to 64-bits), and it's gorgeous, but it doesn't quite mesh (heh) with IndicatorLights.  Thankfully, it only deletes the first MODEL node in the affected parts, so your lights are all in place, but often misaligned or even floating in midair (e.g. the ISRU parts).

Thanks for the heads-up, but it's not gonna happen.  Placing those lights is slow, tedious, painstaking work (which is why I'm only gradually working my way through the stock parts).  Doing it all over again for another mod that has moved stuff around (and might do so again), when it's not a mod that I myself use, is just way way too many hours of my time for something that I myself will never use, and which would affect a small minority of IndicatorLights users.

...Sorry.  That actually came out sounding harsher than I meant it-- it's just that I don't have infinite time to spend on this (it's a hobby), and I've got a lot of higher-priority stuff than that (including actually playing KSP, which is why I make mods in the first place...)

That said, if you'd really like it, there's nothing stopping you from doing it yourself with some ModuleManager config.  :)

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11 hours ago, Kerbas_ad_astra said:

I get you.  Most of the really misaligned stuff is rotated, so I can fix that up with math (and pass the savings along to you).

Pass savings along to everyone else too? Maybe a small patch somehow? Many peasants would be rejoice, including myself. :) 

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Wow, I dip out of the thread for a moment and it blows up.

You really went to work on this mod - I really like the progression! Sadly, and this did not surprise me in the slightest, nor will it you, it does not work with Ven Stock Revamp. I even switched the model paths to the appropriate paths in the configs, and it just made things turn weird in game (your mod sort of just eats the flags and lights on crewable parts:0.0:). ...and scrolling up a post or two I see a mention of Ven's already, I'll post this and read back a few to catch up on things. I wouldn't worry too much about Ven's compatibility at the moment, since rumor has it he's at work on a big update, and you're still fleshing out this mod.

Also, and this will come across really nerdy, but this is the land of KSP after all: but you write a really clean and well organized config and that means a lot to someone who is really poophole retentive about such things (even though most people will never ever see it). And thank you for taking the time to actually explain things in your configs - very much appreciated!

Cheers (and I have some reading to do)

16 hours ago, Kerbas_ad_astra said:

I get you.  Most of the really misaligned stuff is rotated, so I can fix that up with math (and pass the savings along to you).

Fellow Ven user here: how did you get your lights to show up even? I've only tried with the MK1 Pod and it didn't show up at all; the plugin works, but the flag disappeared and the light Ven's adds no longer works right. I edited the respective configs to point to the Ven's model nodes, but...no workie workie.

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1 hour ago, Deimos Rast said:

you write a really clean and well organized config and that means a lot to someone who is really poophole retentive about such things (even though most people will never ever see it). And thank you for taking the time to actually explain things in your configs - very much appreciated!

Heh, you're welcome.  :)  Occupational hazard of being a professional software engineer, I guess.  Whatever physical space I inhabit always seems to morph into a disaster area over time... but where I actually live, in the computer, is always neat as a pin.

 

1 hour ago, Deimos Rast said:

Fellow Ven user here: how did you get your lights to show up even? I've only tried with the MK1 Pod and it didn't show up at all; the plugin works, but the flag disappeared and the light Ven's adds no longer works right. I edited the respective configs to point to the Ven's model nodes, but...no workie workie.

This actually highlights a problem I should address:  IndicatorLights has now gotten complex enough that it's no longer totally trivial for someone to glance at a config or two and reverse-engineer how to make anything happen.

I really need to add documentation-- had been kicking the idea around for a little while, but this helps put it into perspective.  The time is now.

What I plan to do, then, as the next "feature" for IndicatorLights, is not an actual feature at all, just documentation.  Github has a very handy wiki feature which I've been allowing to languish; I should use it.

My idea is to have two main areas for the wiki:  one directed at players, one at modders.

  • The player section will just list all the features of what the mod can do, and provide instructions on any bits that may be confusing to players.  (The content will look a lot like what the original post of this thread currently has.  This will have the benefit of allowing me to shorten the post quite a bit, basically just make it a photo gallery and have a link to the wiki.  Easier to maintain.)
  • The modder section will be a reference manual that explains how all the pieces fit together, with some examples of how to make stuff happen in config.

The "Ven test" might be a good validation of whether I've done it right.  If the Ven fans out there can successfully mod it, using the documentation that I produce, then I know I've hit the mark.  If there's still confusion, then I'll know where I need to add more examples or whatever.

Therefore, I'm deliberately not going to give you any advice as to how to patch Ven's mod, at least not for now.  :P  I'd like to take it as a challenge to see whether I can write docs that are good enough to accomplish the same task.

Anyway, that's my plan.  There's a fair amount to document, so it will take a little time.  I'd like to get that out of the way now, before I further boost IndicatorLights' complexity by adding more features.

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The "Ven Test" ...I like it. You found a very clever way of catering to the demands of a portion of your playerbase without actually catering to their demands!:sticktongue: Seriously though, your idea is the best approach of "teaching a man to fish" while still building your mod in keeping with your vision for it. My only objection is it might actually require me to do work, which I am known to be allergic to. Oh well.

"Adding more features..."

Such as....?:)

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1 hour ago, Deimos Rast said:

Seriously though, your idea is the best approach of "teaching a man to fish"

Yes!  I like Terry Pratchett's version of this quote, though.  :wink:

 

1 hour ago, Deimos Rast said:

"Adding more features..."

Such as....?:)

It'll be on the wiki.  :P

(That's the other useful feature of the wiki:  gives me a place to jot down ideas for new features, including a place to capture suggestions I like from this forum thread, so that interested parties don't have to wade through umpteen pages of posts to get the interesting bits.)

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7 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

Fellow Ven user here: how did you get your lights to show up even? I've only tried with the MK1 Pod and it didn't show up at all; the plugin works, but the flag disappeared and the light Ven's adds no longer works right. I edited the respective configs to point to the Ven's model nodes, but...no workie workie.

The lights stay in the same place they always were, but the model may be different.  For example, the Mk1 pod is actually wider in VSR (so that it's exactly 0.625 m wide at the top), so the light is probably inside the model.  I thought it would be easy enough to "fly" inside the model with WASD Editor Camera and find them, and from there work out how to move them back into visibility, but there's something not quite right about my implementation of rotation matrix multiplication with Module Manager.

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2 minutes ago, Kerbas_ad_astra said:

The lights stay in the same place they always were, but the model may be different. For example, the Mk1 pod is actually wider in VSR (so that it's exactly 0.625 m wide at the top), so the light is probably inside the model.

^ This.

One technique that I found helpful, while trying to debug "where the dickens is the light?":

In the VAB, click on the part's button, so that you get a transparent copy of the part attached to the mouse cursor... and then don't actually place it.  In this mode, the part is transparent and if you zoom up close to it and look carefully, you can spot the lights lurking inside.

My own workflow when I'm adding lights to a part:

  1. Import the .mu into Blender
  2. Delete the collider mesh, to get it out of the way
  3. Make a little placeholder dummy object that's about the size of an indicator light
  4. Move it around until it's sitting on the model about where I want the light to be
  5. Note down the X, Y, Z numbers of the dummy object's location
  6. Swap 'em around, since KSP uses different coordinates:
    • Blender X = KSP X
    • Blender Z = KSP Y
    • Blender Y = KSP Z
  7. Edit the config file to add them in
  8. Load up KSP and see the placement
  9. Emit mild profanity
  10. Tweak the numbers in the config file (either via guesswork, or with some math, or both)
  11. Repeat steps 8-10, with profanity of decreasing mildness, until happy with the result.

 

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Yeah, that's what I figured. Not entirely sure why it would be causing conflicts with the flag rendering or the pre-existing MK1 light (added by VSR).
 As I have next to no experience in blender or unity (have both but never having success importing anything into either, despite using proper import tools/addons and reading numerous tutorials), I instead use the ingame mod NodeHelper by Felbourn, which as the name suggests, helps you visually create and adjust old/new/dummy nodes and move them around in the editor (it also can output stuff to textfiles and such). Very useful!

I'll try the transparency trick. The WASD camera mod probably will be handy for that too.

---Edit--

I also recommend sarbian's Debug stuff mod, as I spent 10 minutes trying to find the indicator light in the Mk1 pod until I loaded that mod up, turned on labels and found it in 10 seconds. Turns out it was hiding right by the ladder rungs, for which I confused it.

Edited by Deimos Rast
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2j58JaZ.jpg?1

@Snark

Here is a Ven's MK1 capsule with the indicator light. I kind of sort of artfully arranged the image to hide the fact that it's slightly sticking out too far (currently set to 0.0, 0.0, -0.58) but dialing it a hair to say -0.575 would probably do the trick. However, this picture is mainly to highlight two other things (capsule is occupied as the light suggests): one the flag on the left side and two the window light.

The flag is currently toggled off and so shouldn't appear at all, yet instead we have a blank white rectangle. It reminds me of when I sometimes forget to copy over the flag transform when cloning parts and I get a neat little hole in the mesh (I know no one else does such things:rolleyes:). No idea why that would be, but there are some loose ends on my side of things I can try to tie down first before pointing fingers.

Two: VSR adds a neato light emissive to the window you see above the ladder rungs. It glows full on yellow when lit. It's actually lit now, and you can see the glow from/around the window but not actually in the window. Not working as intended, no idea why.

I should note sometimes these do work in the editor, but this might be dependent on whether crew lights are toggled (not sure). Also, telling, there seems to be zero log spam from this (usually it yells loudly about transforms missing) according to Exception Detector.

The important take away from all this though is your light still works! Everything else is just details.:D

--edit---

do these lights consume resources by the way? I remember how you gleefully added energy consumption to all the radiators in your toggle radiators mod, I wouldn't put it past you to try that again here...:P

----edit2----

In pursuit of nailing down loose ends. Turns out the above problems may not be related to your esteemed mod or personage. Apologies.

Edited by Deimos Rast
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9 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

I instead use the ingame mod NodeHelper by Felbourn, which as the name suggests, helps you visually create and adjust old/new/dummy nodes and move them around in the editor (it also can output stuff to textfiles and such). Very useful!

I also recommend sarbian's Debug stuff mod, as I spent 10 minutes trying to find the indicator light in the Mk1 pod until I loaded that mod up, turned on labels and found it in 10 seconds. Turns out it was hiding right by the ladder rungs, for which I confused it.

Whoa.  Now that got my attention.  The trial-and-error, start-KSP-a-couple-of-dozen-times process I've been following when placing lights is just excruciating.  If there are any tools that can eliminate (or even significantly reduce) that, I'll be all over them like white on rice.  Got some links?

6 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

Here is a Ven's MK1 capsule with the indicator light.

Excellent, that looks great!  :)

6 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

do these lights consume resources by the way? I remember how you gleefully added energy consumption to all the radiators in your toggle radiators mod, I wouldn't put it past you to try that again here...:P

Nah, they don't need any resources at all.  (I should probably document that.)  In fact, if you had a ship that got blown into smithereens, and some of the "debris" parts had indicator lights on them, they'd keep on happily shining even if not connected to any batteries at all.  My in-KSP-universe justification for that is that they're LEDs, which need next to no power, so the rationale is that the part just has some built-in tiny batteries with enough oomph to keep the lights lit.  My gameplay-balance justification is that the lights don't actually do anything for gameplay, they just convey information to the player, so there's no reason to put a cost on them.  And my IRL justification is that it would be extra work for me to make them consume resources.  :P

(In the case of the radiators, it's worth pointing out that they were consuming resources anyway.  All I did was tweak the numbers to make them consistent, which on the one hand raised their electricity cost, but on the other hand you could turn them off to save power.  So I think it pretty much all balanced out. The mod giveth, and the mod taketh away.)

6 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

In pursuit of nailing down loose ends. Turns out the above problems may not be related to your esteemed mod or personage. Apologies.

Heh, no problem.  :) I was pretty sure that IndicatorLights wasn't the culprit there.  It's actually a pretty unintrusive mod-- the only thing that it actually does to the ship is to change the emissive color of the specific meshes that the config points it at.  So there's very little chance of it interfering with other mods, unless those mods are also trying to tinker with the same lights.  About the worst that I'd expect would be that some other mod could "break" IL by changing the model, like Ven's.

(Obligatory caveat: Of course, like any plug-in, there's always the chance that IL could have a bug that crashes KSP or something similarly spectacular, if I've done something egregiously stupid.  And IL is heavily config-driven, so it's possible to cause odd behavior if you've got a bug in config that points it at the wrong place.  But the chance of an actual conflict with another mod is pretty low, I think.)

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Some more thoughts about compatibility with Ven's Stock Revamp (or with any other mod, for that matter):

  • On the one hand, I would love for IndicatorLights to be compatible with all sorts of popular mods.
    • A big part of my vision for IndicatorLights is that I want to make a handy general-purpose tool that other folks can use to do neat things with.
    • Making it compatible with Ven's Stock Revamp is a perfect example.
  • On the other hand, I don't really have the time to add compatibility patches myself.
    • This is a spare-time hobby for me.
    • What little time I have to spend on it is pretty much completely taken up just developing my mods.
  • The ideal case is when the author of the other mod is actively interested in IndicatorLight compatibility and takes it on themselves.
    • Example: this has been happening with SpaceY; I've been engaged with @NecroBones, and he's been adding some nice compatibility fixes to SpaceY for IndicatorLights.  Try out his probe cores and SAS units, you'll see what I mean. They actually have lights built into the parts themselves-- none of this pussyfooting around tacking on extra indicator meshes, the way I've been doing with stock parts.
    • To any mod authors out there:  if you think IndicatorLights is cool, and you want your mod to work with it, let me know!  I'll happily give you any info you need.
  • However, that requires that the mod author have both the interest and the time to do so, which is not always the case.
    • My impression is that @Ven is pretty busy these days and may not be up for this.  Ven, please correct me if I'm wrong!

 

So... in a situation like that, perhaps the best compromise might be a "community patches" mod?  i.e. "IndicatorLights Community Patches", something like that.  It would live in its own Github repository, which would be maintained by public-spirited folks who have the motivation (and, most importantly, time) to contribute.  Perhaps I could even contribute to it myself from time to time :) ... I just don't want to be the actual owner or primary maintainer, since it's likely I'll be too busy a lot of the time to do much with it, and I would feel guilty for neglecting it.  But if someone else is running the show, then I have no such guilt problems.

I will be producing a comprehensive wiki doc for modders Soon™, which I suspect would greatly ease the path of anyone taking on such a task.

If such a thing is produced, I'll happily link to it in a prominent location from Indicator Lights (forum thread, SpaceDock page, etc.) so that folks using IL will know about the patch and can find it.

So... anybody interested in stepping up to take primary ownership of such a project?  @Deimos Rast, maybe?  :)

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I'm a little steamed at Past Kerbas right now.  "It's just a rotation matrix", he said.  "It'll be easy," he said!

I've finally chased out the typos and made configs for the ISRU units, the Mk1-2 command pod, and the hitchhiker pod.

@PART[ISRU]:AFTER[IndicatorLights]:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp]
{
	@MODEL:HAS[#model[IndicatorLights/Meshes/nubbinLamp]],*
	{
		oldX = #$position[0]$
		oldZ = #$position[2]$
		
		temp = #$oldX$
		@temp *= 0.5
		newX = #$temp$
		@temp = #$oldZ$
		@temp *= -0.86603
		@newX += #$temp$
		
		@temp = #$oldX$
		@temp *= 0.86603
		newZ = #$temp$
		@temp = #$oldZ$
		@temp *= 0.5
		@newZ += #$temp$
		
		@position[0] = #$newX$
		@position[2] = #$newZ$
		
		@rotation[1] -= 60
		
		-temp = delete
		-oldX = delete
		-oldZ = delete
		-newX = delete
		-newZ = delete
	}
}

@PART[MiniISRU]:AFTER[IndicatorLights]:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp]
{
	@MODEL:HAS[#model[IndicatorLights/Meshes/nubbinLamp]],*
	{
		@position[0] *= 0.93
		@position[1] += 0.1
		@position[2] *= 0.93
	}
}

@PART[Mark1-2Pod]:AFTER[IndicatorLights]:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp]
{
	@MODEL:HAS[#model[IndicatorLights/Meshes/nubbinLamp]],*
	{
		oldX = #$position[0]$
		oldZ = #$position[2]$
		
		temp = #$oldX$
		@temp *= 0.87462
		newX = #$temp$
		@temp = #$oldZ$
		@temp *= 0.48481
		@newX += #$temp$
		
		@temp = #$oldX$
		@temp *= -0.48481
		newZ = #$temp$
		@temp = #$oldZ$
		@temp *= 0.87462
		@newZ += #$temp$
		
		@position[0] = #$newX$
		@position[1] += 0.1
		@position[2] = #$newZ$
		@rotation[1] += 29
		
		@position[0] *= 0.95
		@position[2] *= 0.95
		
		-temp = delete
		-oldX = delete
		-oldZ = delete
		-newX = delete
		-newZ = delete
	}
}

@PART[crewCabin]:AFTER[IndicatorLights]:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp]
{
	@MODEL:HAS[#model[IndicatorLights/Meshes/nubbinLamp]],0
	{
		@position[2] -= 0.05
	}
}

 

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48 minutes ago, Kerbas_ad_astra said:

I'm a little steamed at Past Kerbas right now.  "It's just a rotation matrix", he said.  "It'll be easy," he said!

I've finally chased out the typos and made configs for the ISRU units, the Mk1-2 command pod, and the hitchhiker pod.

@PART[ISRU]:AFTER[IndicatorLights]:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp]
{
	@MODEL:HAS[#model[IndicatorLights/Meshes/nubbinLamp]],*
	{
		oldX = #$position[0]$
		oldZ = #$position[2]$
		
		temp = #$oldX$
		@temp *= 0.5
		newX = #$temp$
		@temp = #$oldZ$
		@temp *= -0.86603
		@newX += #$temp$
		
		@temp = #$oldX$
		@temp *= 0.86603
		newZ = #$temp$
		@temp = #$oldZ$
		@temp *= 0.5
		@newZ += #$temp$
		
		@position[0] = #$newX$
		@position[2] = #$newZ$
		
		@rotation[1] -= 60
		
		-temp = delete
		-oldX = delete
		-oldZ = delete
		-newX = delete
		-newZ = delete
	}
}

@PART[MiniISRU]:AFTER[IndicatorLights]:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp]
{
	@MODEL:HAS[#model[IndicatorLights/Meshes/nubbinLamp]],*
	{
		@position[0] *= 0.93
		@position[1] += 0.1
		@position[2] *= 0.93
	}
}

@PART[Mark1-2Pod]:AFTER[IndicatorLights]:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp]
{
	@MODEL:HAS[#model[IndicatorLights/Meshes/nubbinLamp]],*
	{
		oldX = #$position[0]$
		oldZ = #$position[2]$
		
		temp = #$oldX$
		@temp *= 0.87462
		newX = #$temp$
		@temp = #$oldZ$
		@temp *= 0.48481
		@newX += #$temp$
		
		@temp = #$oldX$
		@temp *= -0.48481
		newZ = #$temp$
		@temp = #$oldZ$
		@temp *= 0.87462
		@newZ += #$temp$
		
		@position[0] = #$newX$
		@position[1] += 0.1
		@position[2] = #$newZ$
		@rotation[1] += 29
		
		@position[0] *= 0.95
		@position[2] *= 0.95
		
		-temp = delete
		-oldX = delete
		-oldZ = delete
		-newX = delete
		-newZ = delete
	}
}

@PART[crewCabin]:AFTER[IndicatorLights]:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp]
{
	@MODEL:HAS[#model[IndicatorLights/Meshes/nubbinLamp]],0
	{
		@position[2] -= 0.05
	}
}

 

oh you're just the worst - I was just working on the crewables. How dare you try to be helpful too!:P

Actually glad you posted, as I had no idea how to do this via MM and I may have just been taking the knife the configs directly (heresy I know) in the interest of expediency.

Looking at the ISRU one...(I haven't actually seen what it looks like in game), but why the need for all the variables and such? I thought it'd be like the crewCabin patch above.

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