Speeding Mullet

Shuttle Challenge v3 - The 1.1.x STS thread [Stock and Mod Friendly][11.10.2016 - CLOSED FOR REFURBISHMENT]

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10 minutes ago, awfulhumanbeing said:

Just visit this website and upload your craft. Insert a description, pictures and give us a link!

I did but where do I upload my crafts?

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Just now, Firemetal said:

I did but where do I upload my crafts?

Wut do you mean? If where the craft files are, then check my previous post, I've edited it.

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8 minutes ago, awfulhumanbeing said:

Wut do you mean? If where the craft files are, then check my previous post, I've edited it.

I mean where do I drag the files? I've tried dragging them all over the website but it doesn't do anything.

In the imgur album I uploaded, I showed the CoL and CoM. Is it correct?

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2 hours ago, Firemetal said:

I mean where do I drag the files? I've tried dragging them all over the website but it doesn't do anything.

In the imgur album I uploaded, I showed the CoL and CoM. Is it correct?

There should be a small "Upload Craft" at the top of the page if you are signed in.

Well it seems that your CoL is pretty legit, so: your lift may be located right, but it may be just insufficient. Try adding some clipped wing surfaces, or do segmented wings. Watch Scott Manley's "Space Shuttle Aerodynamics" video, it is a good example of segmented wings. Watch it fully before trying yourself.

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3 minutes ago, awfulhumanbeing said:

There should be a small "Upload Craft" at the top of the page if you are signed in.

Well it seems that your CoL is pretty legit, so: your lift may be located right, but it may be just insufficient. Try adding some clipped wing surfaces, or do segmented wings. Watch Scott Manley's "Space Shuttle Aerodynamics" video, it is a good example of segmented wings. Watch it fully before trying yourself.

Thanks!

https://kerbalx.com/crafts/14479/undefined

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;.; I was close. I found the perfect balance with the CoL and CoM. I added struts to the wings. Re-entry went fine. But I was at 5km and at 500 m/s. I resorted to the last thing possible: to pull up as hard as I could without being too hard. (Which is actually pretty hard) The shuttle was a bit unstable but it didn't lose a part. Unfortunately I was still going to fast and hit the ground at around 80m/s.

I'm so close... I think this is the final aerodynamics tweak. Now I just gotta learn how to land a space plane.

Knowing that you are close to completing your shuttle fills you with DETERMINATION.

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I'd also recommend making split-rudder airbrake - it not only helps with high-AoA reentry, but is also really good at pulling the nose up right before landing in case you still are a bit too nose-heavy or just heavy.

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27 minutes ago, Alchemist said:

I'd also recommend making split-rudder airbrake - it not only helps with high-AoA reentry, but is also really good at pulling the nose up right before landing in case you still are a bit too nose-heavy or just heavy.

 

Already done it thanks! :D

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Here's an early preview of my new orbiter! Reeeeally stable.

It is basically a sort of a copy of the Buran you can see in the first video of Deep Space Youtube Station, but the original craft was not submitted, so this is technically a my contraption.

Also, my first runway landing from orbit!

Warning: done in 1.0.2. Working in 1.1 not guaranteed.

https://kerbalx.com/awfulhumanbeing/Buran

 

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1 hour ago, awfulhumanbeing said:

Here's an early preview of my new orbiter! Reeeeally stable.

It is basically a sort of a copy of the Buran you can see in the first video of Deep Space Youtube Station, but the original craft was not submitted, so this is technically a my contraption.

Also, my first runway landing from orbit!

Warning: done in 1.0.2. Working in 1.1 not guaranteed.

https://kerbalx.com/awfulhumanbeing/Buran

 

That's pretty darn awesome for a pre-1.0.5 shuttle! Nice!

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11 hours ago, Firemetal said:

That's pretty darn awesome for a pre-1.0.5 shuttle! Nice!

Thanks! The one version I submitted was sort of early, I now added RCS, and balanced stuff out.

A spaceplane landing guide? It would be nice to see your pitch degrees during the flight. They are specific for each vehicle, and I'll try to fly and land your one. For my Buran orbiter, during the re-entry I hold the pitch 15 degrees higher than the prograde vector, and if my sink rate becomes too low, I turn 10 degrees lower than prograde. Basically, I do this to get low as fast as possible, so i don't overshoot the airstrip.  believe, your problem is in too sharp trajectory. Try flattening as much as possible on ~10 km, then disable all the airbrakes, and flatten out even more. At an altitude of 500 above sea, your shuttle should be pointed at the horizon. Don't try to land on the runway in your first attempts - you can splashdown, or just land on the poles.

If you overshot, and your speed is too high, try what Negative Root called a "Valentina Roll". Roll the shuttle on its roof, retract the airbrakes, and pitch up hard. That way, you can bleed off up to 300 m/s if done correctly. Take care though - it's very unsafe.

Try to make you shuttle lighter - it's not my Buran, which has a hidden fuel tank just to make it more nose heavy. Use the nose cone at the front, the docking port's blunt shape will make your craft only bleed off speed, and no way to raise back. Put the docking port in the cargo bay instead.

Another thing you can try is grab a Mallard, get it to 7 km, and try to land without engines. The capabilities of it approximate the gliding capabilities of an average shuttle, so it should be fine. Most importantly - keep trying!

I think 1.0.2 - 1.0.4 are the best versions for training pilots, since you have no splashdown option. If you go equatorial, then you must land on the runway.

The biggest problem for the new Buran is the launch stack. Namely - it does not exist. I tried to do it, but the ET engine thrust overcame the two poor LV-T45s. Anyone knows anything to make it fly at least vertically other than angling the engines? 

The first Eve landing was done! No return. The whole mission costed less than 150000. Is that much?

P.S. You have submitted a bad link to your craft, fix it please.l

Nevermind, there's the proper one: https://kerbalx.com/Firemetal/The-Taurus-Shuttle-I

Edited by awfulhumanbeing
more useful info added

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The correct link is here:  https://kerbalx.com/Firemetal/The-Taurus-Shuttle-I

From what I can see @Firemetal:

1)  You have plenty of mono-propellant at the back so you can take the mono out of the cockpit (100 units worth) which will make you nose lighter by 0.4t - Every little helps!  You could probably also move your mono tanks inside the cargo bay radially attached to your ASAS unit, or do as I have and placed a virtually empty (depending on how much I need) Mk3 Mono Tank between cockpit and cargo bay:

Proof 1

 

2)  You only need one of those solar panels (or none if you have enough batteries or a fuel cell) so get rid of two of them and that will give you your room for the mono tanks.

3)  You only have RCS at the back at the moment. RCS on the X and Y axis will help with keeping everything in line.  Also get rid of your quad ports and just go for well placed linear ports.  They survive re-entry much better and are nicer to look at.

 

4)  You need to set your split rudder airbrake to the "brakes" action group, or another action group if you want it toggle-able on its own.  Currently your split rudder will not split.  This is an example of it working correctly (You may need to invert the deployment on one of them by right clicking):

3x0DTTL.png

 

5)  You need to move your rear landing gear forwards much closer to your COM when your tanks are empty.  They are too far back at this moment which causes some instability. also you could move them a little wider and maybe strut them if you need to.  I can land your shuttle, but once landed the gears make it incredibly unstable.  Better landing gear placement would be something like this:

7vQhIfg.png

 

6)  A body flap will really really help with your situation, giving you stability, and an added wing to help the shuttle flare correctly on landing.  This is my body flap, only an example not the best example.  Also note what @awfulhumanbeing was talking about with adding wing segments:

SZZJ8ap.png

 

7)  You've got a docking port on the front of your shuttle, so you don't need another one in the inline clampotron.  That will lower your centre of gravity very very slightly, and also give you more space in the cargo bay.  With the SA, Battery and the inline clampotron I don't think you'll be able to fit the 42t fuel pod in there.  Of course you can clip the ASAS module into your shuttle body if you want to make space.

8) If you want even more authority on your rear Elevons you can right click on them and set the authority limiter to 150.  They will deflect far more giving you more chance to correctly flare instead of pancaking :)

 

Apart from that your shuttle is definitely wobbly on flaring for landing, and has a tendency to sink quite quickly, but apart from that is reasonably flyable which is great!  I managed to land it first time but it was really hard to keep hold of it.  I think if you systematically go through the above list and implement each one (or as much as you feel you want to), you will have a much more effective base for a shuttle that you can really build on.

 

Hope that helps and of course ask for as much help as you need!

 

SM

 

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Here's how I'll try to explain my wing profile.

Start out at the nose at the bottom part of the shuttle with a Structural wing Type A and add Wing connectors Type A along the whole craft bottom.If you find it too short, use Type D and E connectors. Rotate them with the Q/E keys before placing. You should get something looking like a single loooong wing on the bottom. Now add Structural wings Type A on the Wing connector type B closest to the nose. Then expand the rest using the wings type A and B. Then place a Delta Wing after the Structural Wing A, and expand the rest. Add Elevons 1,2,3 all over the back. Strut everything.

If you get it right, the wings will look like a shuttle ones.

Try it, @Firemetal, and send me a pic.

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3 hours ago, awfulhumanbeing said:

Here's how I'll try to explain my wing profile.

Start out at the nose at the bottom part of the shuttle with a Structural wing Type A and add Wing connectors Type A along the whole craft bottom.If you find it too short, use Type D and E connectors. Rotate them with the Q/E keys before placing. You should get something looking like a single loooong wing on the bottom. Now add Structural wings Type A on the Wing connector type B closest to the nose. Then expand the rest using the wings type A and B. Then place a Delta Wing after the Structural Wing A, and expand the rest. Add Elevons 1,2,3 all over the back. Strut everything.

If you get it right, the wings will look like a shuttle ones.

Try it, @Firemetal, and send me a pic.

I have done so. I made two more Taurus shuttles and tried it with those. I've tried putting wings on the bottom like Speeding Mullet's Buran but my symmetry is messed up and it never places right.

#Speeding Mullet Thanks! I'll try these.

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How about these pictures? :D 

 

 

 

  • Removed quad ports and replaced with a bunch of linear ports
  • Added action group for rudder deployment
  • Moved wheels closer
  • changed monoprop position and removed 45 units from each
  • removed inline docking port
  • Added wings to the bottom

 

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On 6/15/2016 at 6:14 AM, Speeding Mullet said:

Cool yep the medium gear is an option!  De-powering (or taking fuel out) is best done in the boosters in my experience.  If you find that a lighter carrier vehicle is flipping you shuttle down due to being lighter than it was you can de-throttle the boosters, or increase the throttle on the shuttle engines.  Or just add weight :)

I didn't have any issues with the shuttle draining fuel from the comsats, but feel free to edit the fuel lines or assembly to get it working the way you like.  I'm not sure if the package has been updated in a while so it may have changed the way it works slightly loading it into 1.1.2.

Also yes feel free to redesign the comsats to fit in with your RT array!

SM

Hi,

I found that leaving the SRB's at 75%, but throttling back the orbiter to around 80% until SRB separation worked perfectly. Still need to do the split tail air brake, but at the moment it seems just fine without it. Should my body flap deploy up or down when my gear come out?

I thought I could modify the STS-2 Comsats, but in the end I just started from the fresh. If its ok with you, I'll be launching 4 relay satellites to geostationary orbit to provide links between my Geostationary array and my long range comsats.

That only took up 1/3 of the cargo bay, so I have also put 2 replacement geostationary comsats in there as well, as Dang It! has a tendency to break tings when you least expect it... I will probably leave those in the 350x350 orbit until they are needed. 

They all have been designed with spin stabilisation, and I'm considering taking a MMU or two up there as well to see how they handle before the Hubble mission.

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I'm getting somewhere.

Imgur isn't working at the moment so I can't post pictures but I've reduced the part loss count to just the wings! :D 

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Yes! Yes! YES!

Landed on runway. No parts destroyed. Very appropriate time for Imgur to not be working. But... Bigger landing gear, wings further back for stability. Right timing. Dumb luck. :D 

(Anyone else experiencing trouble with Imgur?)

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Nvm here they are.

 

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Alright @Speeding Mullet

I finished the comsat mission a while ago and now the album is done. The only mod installed is real plume, which is PURELY VISUAL and makes the engine plumes (exhaust) look better, hence why the Nuke Plumes are red. Just said that to clarify so you don't think they are modded engines (which they're not). SO this should still allow me to get the stock badge. http://imgur.com/a/PNtMs

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Well, I've put a shuttle on a shuttle...

6cc036953805.png

Turned out capable of reaching LKO (although actual payload capacity is very questionable), but I think some kind of suborbital separation with Buran continuing to orbit and HRO flying back across the ocean is a much better option.

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3 minutes ago, Alchemist said:

Well, I've put a shuttle on a shuttle...

6cc036953805.png

Turned out capable of reaching LKO (although actual payload capacity is very questionable), but I think some kind of suborbital separation with Buran continuing to orbit and HRO flying back across the ocean is a much better option.

Dang you and Awfulhumanbeing are doing a lot of cool things with shuttles! Awesome!

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Entry for lvl 1 and lvl 2 missions coming. I have had 3 consecutive successful landings so far as well as a runway landing a couple of "tries" before.

The shuttle is ready for space but I don't see it fit for missions that take a good amount of DV as it has only 900 m/s. I've seen people like Alchemist and Speeding Mullet put on LV-N's onto Burans and I like the idea of making my own Buran for heavy duty missions like the 42t fuel tank and the Duna orbital outpost.

So after I first land the shuttle once more and fly it into orbit and back as well as putting two comsats into orbit, I will build a Buran and do a few of the missions that require a little more than 900 m/s.

http://imgur.com/Ps9wTro

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16 hours ago, Firemetal said:

Yes! Yes! YES!

Landed on runway

Nice work!!!  Look forward to seeing your entries for mission 1 and 2!

 

11 hours ago, Cipher_077 said:

Alright @Speeding Mullet

I finished the comsat mission a while ago and now the album is done. The only mod installed is real plume, which is PURELY VISUAL and makes the engine plumes (exhaust) look better, hence why the Nuke Plumes are red. Just said that to clarify so you don't think they are modded engines (which they're not). SO this should still allow me to get the stock badge. http://imgur.com/a/PNtMs

Great mission well done!  Another detailed report for this massive shuttle!  Looks like the re-entry was a little crazy right at the end but you still made it to the runway so good job!  Have a badge :) WUvoQpP.jpg

 

11 hours ago, Alchemist said:

Well, I've put a shuttle on a shuttle...

Seriously how ridiculously capable is that thing!

 

@FCISuperGuy I took your lead on the second challenge pod and to be honest as soon as it had been mentioned that a heavier pod was the way to go it was only a matter of time before I got round to making it.  Thanks for the offer though!  Without further ado I present to the world the Speeding Mullet 84t Ore Pod:

JTvZRvH.png

 

Weighing in at exactly 84t the Speeding Mullet 84t Ore Pod represents the finest in Ore to orbit solutions.  In no way a repainted and weighed down @inigma 42t fuel pod, the Speeding Mullet 84t Ore Pod will form the basis of the second "Can You Carry Me" bonus mission.  Flight Director - Level 2 mission badges are currently in production and the challenge thread will be updated shortly.  The Ore Pod is designed around an identical foot print to the Ore Pod and is exactly twice as heavy.  You don't need to create a larger shuttle to boost it to orbit, but if you happen to have one kicking around, then hell why not:

OyBLZB3.png


Also coming soontm the STS-11 Mission (I promise)

EDIT - I've finally brought the leader-boards back up to date.  Apologies for the delay!

SM

Edited by Speeding Mullet

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2 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

Seriously how ridiculously capable is that thing!

I'm currently experimenting with this configuration (yes, it got droptanks. And the bay of HRO is also filled with tanks). It's pretty much maximum start weight for horizontal takeoff (gear start glitching)

387b80bd1fae.png

Let's see if they can deploy the telescope and get both shuttles back to KSC...

 

Great - the telescope (the version linked in the OP) has issues with docking ports on the panels. I guess I'll have to share the updated version once I get it to work properly

Edited by Alchemist

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