nosirrbro

1.1.2 even less stable than prerelease

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1.1.2 is definitely not an improvement. LT-1 and LT-2 legs are completely unusable. They explode in a spectacular manner, sending remains away at supersonic speeds. It's amusing, but not means that where I had to be careful about how I land, now, I can't land at all.

Edited by vedrit

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I have thus far found it to be very much to my liking. The flight control issues and ships breaking apart are gone and so far no complaints.

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39 minutes ago, vedrit said:

1.1.2 is definitely not an improvement. LT-1 and LT-2 legs are completely unusable. They explode in a spectacular manner, sending remains away at supersonic speeds. It's amusing, but not means that where I had to be careful about how I land, now, I can't land at all.

Those too? Add the LT-05 micro legs to that list, touchdown at 4.5m/s and poof!

Edited by Luke Skycrawler
typo

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Bets on getting up to 1.1.5 much quicker than we got to 1.0.5.

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I'm using loads of mods, but is anyone in stock having an issue where they can't exit the astronaut complex?

I've had this happen twice this morning.

Once from the space centre and another when hiring from the VAB.

-----------------------------------

Just tested without mods.

Doesn't happen.

Oh man, where to begin the witch hunt?

---------------------------------

Turns out its a corrupt ship in my career.

Had a corrupt ship prior to 1.1.2 so this was just a coincidence I guess.

Edited by T.A.P.O.R.

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56 minutes ago, Luke Skycrawler said:

Those too? Add the LT-05 micro legs to that list, touchdown at 4.5m/s and poof!

How heavy was the craft and how much gravity? The micro legs may only be for light un-maned probes.

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On Kerbin with the Mk1 capsule and science bay. It worked in 1.1.1 and I'm talking instant total destruction with no remains but a crash report. Keep the legs up and bounce once off the heat shield and it's OK.

edit: this with mods of course but not many (joint reinforcemnet being one), just my first test run after this second patch to see what happens with them. And just to add my input about crashing, I haven't had that problem in a long long time.

 

Edited by Luke Skycrawler

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I did a fair amount of more testing, maybe it's something with my system.  It's easy enough to recreate for me, any time I place the gear in Mirror symmetry the drag is uneven.  I tried really hard to get good pics, but in play it appears that the drag arrow on the starboard gear is pointing straight back, and is fairly large.  The arrows on the port gear actually weirdly seem to point towards the center of the craft, but they are quite small so hard to tell if that's significant.  All the following pics are from straight flight, not turning or anything.  Also I was able to show it (last pic) on a plane with a single steerable forward (no problems there) and 2 fixed gear (clearly asymmetrical drag).

Edit: I'm going to wipe out my 1.1.2 install and start fresh, see if it's still happening.

Edited by Jetski

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OK, recreated it on a completely clean install, no mods, brand new from the zipfile.

Here's a sample plane. But any plane at all with the LY-01 wheels has the same display when you enable aero.  Visible even with the brakes on before taxi or flight.  Arrows get much larger at higher speeds, but only on starboard side.@sal_vager, how do I enable that nifty aero stats display?  One thing I'm thinking is that it may just be the aero display glitching - different designs have been more or less stable, maybe the drag isn't really there, just showing the arrows?

Maybe my laptop just pulls to the right a little?  I used to have a car like that...

 

 

Edited by Jetski

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Yes, but the apparent drag is dependent on which angle you look at it from. If you look from forward on the port side, the arrow switches sides.

 The uneven pull during takeoff is actually due to terrain collision and imperfect placement of the nose gear in the SPH. "Local" reference snap vs. "global".

Best,
-Slashy

Edited by GoSlash27

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5 minutes ago, GoSlash27 said:

Yes, but the apparent drag is dependent on which angle you look at it from. If you look from forward on the port side, the arrow switches sides.

 The uneven pull during takeoff is actually due to terrain collision and imperfect placement of the nose gear in the SPH.

Best,
-Slashy

That's why I took screenshots of all 4 sides, there's always a large drag arrow on the starboard gear.  The port side drag arrow is elusive, only appears when viewed from a certain angle, and appears to be aimed towards craft centerline.  I'm thinking the issues people have been having on takeoff are a separate problem.  I always use the rotation tool in Absolute mode to snap my landing gear straight (thank you Squad for that!), so that shouldn't be part of what I'm showing here.

Edit: @GoSlash27 are you seeing the same thing on your install?  I'm half convinced this is a hardware issue unique to my setup.  Not game breaking (just played most of a career planes only on 1.1.2) so it's fine if it's just me :)

 

Edited by Jetski

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17 minutes ago, Jetski said:

That's why I took screenshots of all 4 sides, there's always a large drag arrow on the starboard gear.  The port side drag arrow is elusive, only appears when viewed from a certain angle, and appears to be aimed towards craft centerline.  I'm thinking the issues people have been having on takeoff are a separate problem.  I always use the rotation tool in Absolute mode to snap my landing gear straight (thank you Squad for that!), so that shouldn't be part of what I'm showing here.

 Jetski,

 Aye, but it *does* appear. The arrow appearing on only one side is an optical illusion, not an indication of any actual imbalanced forces. There *is* an imbalanced force when taxiing at high speed, but it's not aerodynamic, it's due to a combination of problems with surface interactions. If it were aerodynamic, you'd see a tendency to yaw and roll-couple right at high speed.

 Also remember, gear are "physicsless" parts. Their drag manifests at the Cog of their parent part, not the gear themselves.

Best,
-Slashy

Edited by GoSlash27

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NothingToSeeHere_zpslgsu9gdy.jpg

The aero overlay appears to show imbalanced drag from the starboard gear, but the "drag" doesn't affect the aircraft, even at high speeds.

It's a bug in the display, not the actual physics.

Best,
-Slashy

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I just noticed a really weird issue. I'm orbiting Duna, using Ike for a gravity assist. I shut off my engines, and my apoapsis and periapsis keep changing. Not much, only a few 10s of thousands of meters, but... there are no obvious forces acting on the craft. I'm not using "point to prograde" or any auto-pointing, the ship is not thrusting and not rotating. But the orbit keeps changing back and forth like that, and slowly getting bigger over time.

OkicDg5.png

JnXk6TD.png

As you can see, I'm not thrusting, and I don't have RCS on (or even any RCS on the craft). But the orbit is changing.

 

Anyone else seen this?

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I spoke too soon. :P

I have been trying to reenter Kerbin atmosphere with a hitchhiker container with a 2.5m heat shield and directly on top of that a MK1 and no matter how steep or shallow I come in the container rolls over at or around 1700-1900m/s causing a death and destruction... Have plenty of battery power. Not sure what's going on. This is a new install with a new career and have used this setup MANY times with prior versions without issue. I have even gone so far as to strut the MK1 to the container and it still does it.

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You mean a Mk1 capsule? As in the one that kind of looks like the Mercury?

Edited by mikegarrison

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I don't think the hitchhiker is terribly aerodynamically stable in re-entry. I've had them flip out of control on me before. And the Mk1 capsule has only a very weak reaction wheel. So I'm not actually super surprised.

Did you try adding more control, like a 2.5m reaction wheel or some RCS?

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That's pretty much what I'm concluding here as well.  Tested a few other configurations, and although I continue to get imbalanced drag arrows, it doesn't seem to be affecting the performance of the aircraft at all.  I managed to fly straight for quite a while with SAS turned off, which is a big deal for me (I don't do planes well).  I'll update the OP so nobody goes on a witch hunt, and I think I'll skip the bug report.  Really it's a just a display bug on a debugging tool if you get right down to it.

 

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the hitchhiker can is a brick with the aerodynamics of well a brick encased in an even more unstable brick. and like @mikegarrison said, the MK1 capsule aka mercury style, is about as weak a capsule <in terms of torque> as you can get. works FINE when its got only itself to handle, but add anything bigger than a heat shield and say a parachute or two, and all bets are off.  Bigger pod or a ton more reaction control systems are needed to make that set up work. ONE thing i can suggest, tho, ive not tried this personally yet, is use the inflatable heatshield. from what ive read, that thing starts hitchhiker sized and swells up to 10m or so. may be what you need :)

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2 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

I don't think the hitchhiker is terribly aerodynamically stable in re-entry. I've had them flip out of control on me before. And the Mk1 capsule has only a very weak reaction wheel. So I'm not actually super surprised.

Did you try adding more control, like a 2.5m reaction wheel or some RCS?

No.... I have done this config so many times in prior versions and not had this problem. And the funny thing is...its flying straight and true just like always then at 1700-1900 m/s it just rolls in less than a second and explodes. No input can stop it. I know there have been some changes to heat shields and the bug reports seem to suggest it is just too heavy to slow down. But this behavior seems crazy to me.

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1 hour ago, RocketBlam said:

I just noticed a really weird issue. I'm orbiting Duna, using Ike for a gravity assist. I shut off my engines, and my apoapsis and periapsis keep changing. Not much, only a few 10s of thousands of meters, but... there are no obvious forces acting on the craft. I'm not using "point to prograde" or any auto-pointing, the ship is not thrusting and not rotating. But the orbit keeps changing back and forth like that, and slowly getting bigger over time.As you can see, I'm not thrusting, and I don't have RCS on (or even any RCS on the craft). But the orbit is changing.

 

Anyone else seen this?

Explained in the dev notes.

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