EmbersArc

[1.6.1] KRE - Kerbal Reusability Expansion

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@infinite_monkey @webkilla

locate your settings.cfg file in the root KSP folder and edit it.

locate LEGS_ADVANCED_SUSPENSIONDAMPER and set it to False

LEGS_ADVANCED_SUSPENSIONDAMPER = False

Run the game again and test with some craft with landing legs. Your legs will probably bottom out at this point... but they probably aren't bouncing.

At this point most or all of the leg springRatio and damperRatio settings are invalid but they haven't really been working right to begin with so you'll need to find new settings. They probably all need to be increased by some unknown factor. Maybe 100? 1000? (totally guessing here)

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11 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

@infinite_monkey @webkilla

locate your settings.cfg file in the root KSP folder and edit it.

locate LEGS_ADVANCED_SUSPENSIONDAMPER and set it to False


LEGS_ADVANCED_SUSPENSIONDAMPER = False

Run the game again and test with some craft with landing legs. Your legs will probably bottom out at this point... but they probably aren't bouncing.

At this point most or all of the leg springRatio and damperRatio settings are invalid but they haven't really been working right to begin with so you'll need to find new settings. They probably all need to be increased by some unknown factor. Maybe 100? 1000? (totally guessing here)

I had a go with this

 

first up, with a Mk1 lander can and 4 x LT-2 landing struts. The bounce ended very quickly, less than a second. This was good

With a giant fuel can on top: there was a tiny amount of bouncing, much less than before (it used to go from 0 to 0.3 m/s just from bouncing on the launch pad) - now it never got to more than 0.1m/s and stopped in less than a second

 

I'll have to do a final test with a lander on minmus to check: ok - there was a bounce.... one - and this was with an 11 ton lander - but it came to an absolute halt on the second landing, and the LT-2 struts didn't bottom out at all. They seemed to be have quite normally.

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14 minutes ago, infinite_monkey said:

And this doesn't ruin dampers/springs for actual wheels?

It only affects suspension where wheelType = LEG in ModuleWheelBase

This is the set of configs I'm experimenting with when LEGS_ADVANCED_SUSPENSIONDAMPER =False

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleWheelSuspension],@MODULE[ModuleWheelBase]:HAS[#wheelType[LEG]]]:FINAL
{
	@MODULE[ModuleWheelSuspension]
	{
		%useAutoBoost = false
		%boostRatio = 0
		%autoSpringDamper = false
		@springRatio *= 5 // only use this when turning OFF LEGS_ADVANCED_SUSPENSIONDAMPER
		@damperRatio = #$springRatio$
		@damperRatio *= 0.05  // only use this when turning OFF LEGS_ADVANCED_SUSPENSIONDAMPER
		//%targetPosition = 0.5
	}
}

// This bit here was an attempt to stop the jitteryness where it was sliding around on the ground. Not sure it really did anything for me.
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleWheelBase]]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleWheelBase]
	{
		%frictionSharpness = 1
	}
}

The bad thing about this solution is that it requires editing on the part of the player to turn that setting off. It's not exposed to the GUI anywhere that I can find. So it's not modder-friendly IMO

17 minutes ago, webkilla said:

I had a go with this

 

first up, with a Mk1 lander can and 4 x LT-2 landing struts. The bounce ended very quickly, less than a second. This was good

With a giant fuel can on top: there was a tiny amount of bouncing, much less than before (it used to go from 0 to 0.3 m/s just from bouncing on the launch pad) - now it never got to more than 0.1m/s and stopped in less than a second

 

I'll have to do a final test with a lander on minmus to check: ok - there was a bounce.... one - and this was with an 11 ton lander - but it came to an absolute halt on the second landing, and the LT-2 struts didn't bottom out at all. They seemed to be have quite normally.

what spring/damper values were you using? It's definitely possible to completely eliminate bounce this way but it seems to require such high values that it also makes them too stiff. Trying to find some kind of middle ground here.

(FYI the actual default Unity ratings for the WheelCollider are 30000 and 1500 ...)

Edited by Starwaster

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6 minutes ago, infinite_monkey said:

And this doesn't ruin dampers/springs for actual wheels?

I'll have to test that

 

uhm.... its not good - but I can't tell if that's because of tweaking the config

 

I made a rover with a sky-crane assembly - and simply starting that up on the launch pad resulted in it wobling from side to side. It never stopped. So I would consider rovers broken for the time being, until a fix to the rover wobble becomes a thing

but again - this mainly seems to be an issue when there's a lot top-heavy weight on the wheels. when the sky-crane came off on minmus, the rover behaved far more normally, albeit still a bit bouncy. No scratch that, bouncy as all hell...

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What's the distinction between deploy and extend for the grid fins? Deploy just seems to tilt them

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1 hour ago, dlrk said:

What's the distinction between deploy and extend for the grid fins? Deploy just seems to tilt them

If it's in flight mode then you need to extend them so that they become active. I'm not sure if it's intended behavior for deploy to do anything if they aren't extended; deploy is the standard behavior for control surfaces configured to act like flaps.

In the VAB action editor, I forget what you need to bind to extend them.... there's an option in the editor for extend but I think it actually is just deploy.... (I used to know; it was something confusing....)

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14 hours ago, Starwaster said:

If it's in flight mode then you need to extend them so that they become active. I'm not sure if it's intended behavior for deploy to do anything if they aren't extended; deploy is the standard behavior for control surfaces configured to act like flaps.

In the VAB action editor, I forget what you need to bind to extend them.... there's an option in the editor for extend but I think it actually is just deploy.... (I used to know; it was something confusing....)

Last time I checked, if you toggled your brakes, the grid fins extend into the airstream and begin to function as, well, fins. ;)

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28 minutes ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Last time I checked, if you toggled your brakes, the grid fins extend into the airstream and begin to function as, well, fins. ;)

Do they stay extended if brakes are released?

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2 hours ago, Starwaster said:

Do they stay extended if brakes are released?

No. If you just press "B", they'll retract as soon as you let go.

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Heh. Just found this little easter egg in the New Shepard gear...

Spoiler

M8dtnYx.png

Turtle, turtle. :P 

 

Edited by MaverickSawyer

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7 hours ago, NightSky said:

Hello, there seems to be some problems loading ITSLeg-M. Any idea why?

Are you talking about KSP 1.4.5?

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5 hours ago, Dafni said:

Are you talking about KSP 1.4.5?

1.5.1 (I know: the version is not supported yet. Just to know if this is the problem)

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This mod is the only one i use for landing legs.I still think its the best out there.Thank you for giving us a way to land those rockets :D.

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Hi everyone, I'm sorry about the lack of being alive for the last couple of months. Life has been kind of busy so I had to put KRE on hold. BUT I now have some spare time again that I want to use to at least fix the leg suspension again. I'll start testing them myself but probably won't be able to check every configuration, so please let me know what legs don't work for you and in which situation. Bonus points if you have already found config parameters that work, I'll be happy to implement them.
Glad to be back! #fixKRE

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Hooray :D !Welcome back and i hope everything is mostly ok ;) . Looking forward for the next suspension fix!

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anyone given this a go with 1.5 or 1.5.1? i googled it and the link definitely said 1.5 but upon loading the page there was no mention of anything past some 1.4 version. im really jonesing  for some nice landing gear and those grid fins...

sorry if this has been covered. im not good at digging through forums.

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6 hours ago, EmbersArc said:

Hi everyone, I'm sorry about the lack of being alive for the last couple of months. Life has been kind of busy so I had to put KRE on hold. BUT I now have some spare time again that I want to use to at least fix the leg suspension again. I'll start testing them myself but probably won't be able to check every configuration, so please let me know what legs don't work for you and in which situation. Bonus points if you have already found config parameters that work, I'll be happy to implement them.
Glad to be back! #fixKRE

That's good news about the legs. Currently the ones I've tested behave just like the stock LT-1 LT-2 legs which for me are terrible. Have way too much bounce on landing. Hopefully the suspension can be made to have fixed no bounce legs so the craft lands without the pogo stick action. To date this remains the top biggest issue for me in the game, Squad's implementation of spring/damper in the legs which is just totally all wrong. It's one thing to damper the shock of landing, but for some reason Squad insists on adding an opposite spring affect that bounces the craft back off the ground a few times at landing which totally ruins the experience. For every time you go up, you must come down. Squad has got the effect of going up ok but not coming back down.

Edited by MikeO89

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3 hours ago, MikeO89 said:

That's good news about the legs. Currently the ones I've tested behave just like the stock LT-1 LT-2 legs which for me are terrible. Have way too much bounce on landing. Hopefully the suspension can be made to have fixed no bounce legs so the craft lands without the pogo stick action. To date this remains the top biggest issue for me in the game, Squad's implementation of spring/damper in the legs which is just totally all wrong. It's one thing to damper the shock of landing, but for some reason Squad insists on adding an opposite spring affect that bounces the craft back off the ground a few times at landing which totally ruins the experience. For every time you go up, you must come down. Squad has got the effect of going up ok but not coming back down.

The Unity wheel classes are horribly bugged. Developers for other games have commented on it and it's just very bouncy regardless of spring or damper settings. 

My suspicion is that basically suspension movement is happening as an acceleration rather than a force. The more I poke around at it, the more convinced I am of that. Could be wrong but it's just not behaving in a rational manner at all.

Edit: I posted further up on this very page about a fix that I'd been working on that helps a lot with the bounciness.

Edited by Starwaster

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On 12/4/2018 at 3:22 AM, Starwaster said:

The Unity wheel classes are horribly bugged. Developers for other games have commented on it and it's just very bouncy regardless of spring or damper settings. 

My suspicion is that basically suspension movement is happening as an acceleration rather than a force. The more I poke around at it, the more convinced I am of that. Could be wrong but it's just not behaving in a rational manner at all.

Edit: I posted further up on this very page about a fix that I'd been working on that helps a lot with the bounciness.

Yeah I've been noticing a lot of bouncing with other mods for 1.5.1. 

Thanks for the cfg change, I will try that now 

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NG legs changed in RL, now much more SpaceX-like:

 

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45 minutes ago, tater said:

NG legs changed in RL, now much more SpaceX-like:

 

You hear that thumping sound? That's @EmbersArc rocking back and forth and banging his head on his desk over and over...

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On 12/19/2018 at 4:47 PM, Starwaster said:

You hear that thumping sound? That's @EmbersArc rocking back and forth and banging his head on his desk over and over...

Not the only thing he has to worry about :P 

Falcon legs seems to be pretty broken in 1.6.

NvBDibD.png

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33 minutes ago, damonvv said:

Not the only thing he has to worry about :P 

Falcon legs seems to be pretty broken in 1.6.

NvBDibD.png

weird...... at first I thought this was going to be a spring/damper thing until the picture loaded

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