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[1.1.2] TAC - Life Support - Dev Thread


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Thunder Aerospace Corporation Life Support (TACLS) update and development

Mod License: Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 3.0 Creative Commons License
TACLS originally by Taranis Elsu


TAC Life Support is under new management in conjunction with the Realism Overhaul team! We are glad for the opportunity to keep this great mod alive. We are also very grateful to @TaranisElsu for creating TAC Life Support. Our hats are off to him.

What is TACLS?

TAC Life Support is a mod which adds food, water, and oxygen as requirements for survival in space. Go without support for too long, and your Kerbals die a non-fiery death! Included are parts with storage for food, water, oxygen, waste products, as well as some recyclers for oxygen and water. It does not include support for growing food, but there are many mods which play well with TACLS to provide this functionality.

While this thread held a brief caretaker spot as a release thread until our bigger release was going, it is now a dedicated development thread.

Please find the release thread here.
 

Source

Development Plans:

I intend to keep the scope of this mod narrowly focused on life support and building on the present mechanic. I would like to improve a few things:

  • Better background processing of electric charge consumption
  • MM-friendly configuration and settings
  • Adding switch functionality (container contents, textures/meshes) along with parts overhaul to reduce editor clutter
  • Working with @TMS for improved part models and textures. We'll discuss this in detail, but we're now ready to do so.
  • 3.75m parts (next update for sure)

Additional suggestions for features are welcome! We can't guarantee they'll be integrated, but we're always open to good ideas.

----------------------------------------------

 

Edited by danfarnsy
development thread!
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Realism Overhaul cats want to host this on the RO repo. How exactly will that work, in terms of write access, branches, etc.? And how does RO's workflow usually go? Are most contributors running their own forks and then submitting pull requests, or are they given direct write access and use separate development branches which they then merge? Is the intent to host TAC-LS directly in the RO repository, or will we have it be its own entity within the larger network of RO-associated projects? I may have misunderstood @NathanKell on this point, so I'd like to have clear expectations.

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1 minute ago, Thomas P. said:

I assume that you just downloaded the zipball instead of cloning the repo, which does not restore the submodules. :)

That's a correct assumption. I got that much working locally, and I'm working with the git extension in VS to figure out how to clone, edit, and commit properly, as I've previously only been using the clunky web interface.

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31 minutes ago, Thomas P. said:

RO already has a fork in their organisation

Found it. It's a few commits behind Taranis's current release version, so we bring that up to current, grant additional write access on that fork to a couple of dedicated contributors/managers, and use the master branch for future releases of TAC-LS. Looks like a good starting point to me. Like I said, I'm still familiarizing myself, but my current fork is here.

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good luck to you danfarnsy..

thou i wish the new TAC life support would work together with USI life support..

would be more fun to have, oxygen, water, food and supplies to work together..

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I want to mention in case it is an issue. It might be obvious. It might be dumb. Whatever, I just want to pitch in the little I can.

 

I know this mod had been made to work well with USI, and I assume KIS/KAS does their thing on their end. However, do you need to further coordinate development with USI, etc., to ensure everything is working as it has been or is that entirely the code in USI and TAC alone, respectively?

It was briefly mentioned above but I wanted to make sure the core issue of cross-compatibility is on your radars.

Edited by Friend Bear
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3 hours ago, yanzco said:

thou i wish the new TAC life support would work together with USI life support..

TAC-LS and USI-LS are incompatible systems. Aside from that, the rest of the USI suite of mods can work well with TAC-LS, and they have included MM config files to support TAC-LS. That means you can use the habitation and agriculture components in UKS to produce TAC-LS resources. If those configs fall out of date, it's easy enough to create pull requests on the USI side.

1 hour ago, Friend Bear said:

I know this mod had been made to work well with USI, and I assume KIS/KAS does their thing on their end. However, do you need to further coordinate development with USI, etc., to ensure everything is working as it has been or is that entirely the code in USI and TAC alone, respectively?

Most compatibility is handled through mod-manager patches/configs. That can be done either on the TAC-LS side or through creating pull requests for other mods, but usually not both (to avoid creating conflicting configs). It is important to me that it remains friendly to as many mods as possible and keeps a narrow and well-defined scope.

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Just a note seeing how this has been picked up before TaranisElsu had agreed (I read all the comments in the old thread).
I submitted a PR some time ago for compatibility with my DeepFreeze mod to include a Reflection wrapper and code change for compatibility that he never merged.
If you guys are going to pick up his code could you take a look and include compatibilitiy. PR me for info if required.
https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/pull/86
I've taken a look at the code in the past and am somewhat familiar with TaranisElsu's methods in this mod.
Good luck with it! Cheers!

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I realise this might not seem like the right place to put it put if you are doing an update for this I have one request. Change the resource oxygen to air or breathable air or something like that. It shouldn't be too hard a find and replace but it has always really bugged me because it is not accurate.

If you pump in pure oxygen to breath you die of oxygen toxicity at 6% oxygen.

If you pump in oxygen as fast as you vent air you lose nitrogen and end up with too much oxygen.

If you only pump in oxygen when the oxygen gets low enough, and vent air to match you end up with too much carbon dioxide at 3% and die (note this also happens first in the other two points). It's a shame that tac carbon dioxide doesn't kill but I understand that would take adding coding.

If you pump in oxygen and nitrogen why is it called oxygen? Why not air and have a second nitrogen tank? (because it's extra weight) and they don't really take up much nitrogen.

If the tank is oxygen and lithium hydroxide (it captures carbon dioxide so you don't need to vent air and take up nitrogen) why call it just oxygen not oxygen and atmosphere scrubber? I know they game has a CO2 converter module but without a CO2 scrubber earlier they would all die of CO2 poisoning, see above.

Simple fix of find and replace. Rant over sorry for the wall'o text.

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8 hours ago, yanzco said:

thou i wish the new TAC life support would work together with USI life support..

would be more fun to have, oxygen, water, food and supplies to work together..

 

6 hours ago, Friend Bear said:

I know this mod had been made to work well with USI, and I assume KIS/KAS does their thing on their end. However, do you need to further coordinate development with USI, etc., to ensure everything is working as it has been or is that entirely the code in USI and TAC alone, respectively?

 

4 hours ago, danfarnsy said:

TAC-LS and USI-LS are incompatible systems. Aside from that, the rest of the USI suite of mods can work well with TAC-LS, and they have included MM config files to support TAC-LS. That means you can use the habitation and agriculture components in UKS to produce TAC-LS resources. If those configs fall out of date, it's easy enough to create pull requests on the USI side.

Yes, I can attest that the entire USI Suite works with TACLS replacing USILS.

Will this mod we're discussing here retain the name TACLS?  Going forward, I'll be keeping an eye on the other modlets out there to allow for TACLS resource mining, third party resource recyclers, and compatibility with Universal Storage and Versatile Toolbox.  Also curious to see DeepFreeze get some tlc.  Is there any thought to developing some sort of compatibility with Kerbalism?  I like the idea of that mod, but I don't like how it's an intentionally exclusive all-or-nothing affair.  :-\

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22 minutes ago, MisterFister said:

 

 

Yes, I can attest that the entire USI Suite works with TACLS replacing USILS.

Will this mod we're discussing here retain the name TACLS?  Going forward, I'll be keeping an eye on the other modlets out there to allow for TACLS resource mining, third party resource recyclers, and compatibility with Universal Storage and Versatile Toolbox.  Also curious to see DeepFreeze get some tlc.  Is there any thought to developing some sort of compatibility with Kerbalism?  I like the idea of that mod, but I don't like how it's an intentionally exclusive all-or-nothing affair.  :-\

One thing I may be able to do is use Kerbalism's disabling feature I heard about on it's wiki to disable the food so TAC and Kerbalism work together.

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Give me your github usernames and I'll add you to the repo. I'll also be doing a merge from @WaylandSmith's update branch. With that done, and barring anything turning up, I suggest we make an official release so that people have at least something to use in 1.1 while other cool stuff gets done. :)

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3 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

If you guys are going to pick up his code could you take a look and include compatibilitiy. PR me for info if required.
https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/pull/86
I've taken a look at the code in the past and am somewhat familiar with TaranisElsu's methods in this mod.
Good luck with it! Cheers!

I'll be happy to incorporate your pull request. I don't have a time estimate yet on when that will happen, though it's clear you've been waiting for months.
 

1 hour ago, Clockwork_werewolf said:

I realise this might not seem like the right place to put it put if you are doing an update for this I have one request. Change the resource oxygen to air or breathable air or something like that. It shouldn't be too hard a find and replace but it has always really bugged me because it is not accurate.

Leaving aside your numbers (regular atmosphere is ~21% oxygen), respiration depletes oxygen content in the atmosphere and increases carbon dioxide, while ignoring nitrogen. It's oxygen we have to replace in a spacecraft and carbon dioxide we have to filter out in order to retain atmospheric balance. It's not about providing new atmosphere but replacing the part of atmosphere that our bodies are turning into CO2.
 

2 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

Give me your github usernames and I'll add you to the repo. I'll also be doing a merge from @WaylandSmith's update branch. With that done, and barring anything turning up, I suggest we make an official release so that people have at least something to use in 1.1 while other cool stuff gets done. :)

I'm glad you've got Wayland's branch. Without it, I was patting myself on the back for getting the project to build and run, and then I was figuring out how to replace RenderingManager, since it was throwing a bunch of NREs. I figured it was worth the learning experience.

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2 minutes ago, danfarnsy said:

I'll be happy to incorporate your pull request. I don't have a time estimate yet on when that will happen, though it's clear you've been waiting for months.

Send me your new Repo and I'll recreate the PR and changes if you like. Would like to get it into your first release for 1.1 as yes - Been waiting months and months - to the point where I was doing my own fork re-builds of it.

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At the least @WaylandSmith would have needed to update some namespace references. Or at least I had to for it to build. And with it built and compiled, I still have to make some changes to get it functional, as I mentioned above. Sorry, folks, release will still take a wee bit of time unless Wayland pops his head in again.

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30 minutes ago, JPLRepo said:

Send me your new Repo and I'll recreate the PR and changes if you like. Would like to get it into your first release for 1.1 as yes - Been waiting months and months - to the point where I was doing my own fork re-builds of it.

Never mind found it and re-created my pull request against it.

https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/pull/2

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2 hours ago, NathanKell said:

Give me your github usernames and I'll add you to the repo.

I'm zyxabacab on GitHub.  Luckily, it's not a very common username....

2 hours ago, NathanKell said:

Wayland said he'd get this sorted tomorrow, so all good :)

I suppose it would be a good idea to wait until then?  TAC-LS compiles with the code from both danfarnsy and JPLRepo, but only after commenting out references to PopupDialog and EngineersReport.

Wayland's code compiled without needing to do that....

Edited by Zyx Abacab
Added a point about the code repos.
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