SpacedInvader Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) 31 minutes ago, danfarnsy said: You are wrong. The old behavior was identical to how it is now. It displays an estimate of the time remaining based on the EC that was in the batteries when you last had the vessel loaded, and it never effectively simulated background consumption because, as @ShotgunNinja said, it didn't simulate background EC production. The timer doesn't know that. But it didn't know it before, either. It's a longstanding issue that's on my list of things to address (see OP for development plans). I stand corrected then . That said, this brings the question @Valkyria90 asked into more importance. I know that in the past there were ways to make ships / stations / colonies self sufficient, or at least able to dramatically increase their resource duration through the use of recyclers, scrubbers, greenhouses, and other such parts. I don't know if these used any form of background processing, but I do clearly remember them working just fine while you were flying other ships, allowing you to set a long range vessel on its way and not need to return to it for some time. Is this still possible, or do all of these processes suffer the same limitations as EC? Edited May 11, 2016 by SpacedInvader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfarnsy Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 Just now, SpacedInvader said: I stand corrected then :). That said, this brings the question @Valkyria90 asked into more importance. I know that in the past there were ways to make ships / stations / colonies self sufficient, or at least able to dramatically increase their resource duration through the use of recyclers, scrubbers, greenhouses, and other such parts. I don't know if these used any form of background processing, but I do clearly remember them working just fine while you were flying other ships, allowing you to set a long range vessel on its way and not need to return to it for some time. Is this still possible, or do all of these processes suffer the same limitations as EC? Nothing about TACLS has changed, including how it handles background processing for resources. There have been other mods which work with TACLS to provide increased self-sufficiency, and you may be remembering these. Some of them are discussed on the previous page, if you want to explore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacedInvader Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, danfarnsy said: Nothing about TACLS has changed, including how it handles background processing for resources. There have been other mods which work with TACLS to provide increased self-sufficiency, and you may be remembering these. Some of them are discussed on the previous page, if you want to explore. I will look into those, though, unless they are offshoot mods that were split out from TACLS in the last year, they are not what I'm thinking of. I will have to research TACLS functionality some more before opening my mouth again, but I'm just wanting to be sure I don't go through the effort of building a vessel or station which relies heavily on recycling components to stretch the life support duration, only to find a bunch of dead kerbals when I come back to it because the recycling parts weren't working in the background. Edited May 11, 2016 by SpacedInvader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfarnsy Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 minute ago, SpacedInvader said: I will look into those, though, unless they are offshoot mods that were split out from TACLS in the last year, they are not what I'm thinking of. I will have to research TACLS functionality some more before opening my mouth again, but I'm just wanting to be sure I don't go through the effort of building a vessel or station which relies heavily on recycling components to stretch the life support duration, only to find a bunch of dead kerbals when I come back to it because the recycling parts weren't working in the background. Everything that worked before works now, the same way it worked before. Since you are not inclined to believe it coming straight from the horse's mouth, and you're worried about killing kerbals, perhaps you can try a test in a new sandbox save and see for yourself how the parts behave. There's no better way to trust your parts than to test for yourself. 3 hours ago, Valkyria90 said: Do I have to keep my focus on my space station/planetary base in order for all the converters to work? I have food / oxygen etc for 100 days, but I have enough waste and waste water etc to make it last for at least 500 days, but then I have to keep looking at the station to make this work. And it has a really slow conversion rate, so is there any way to make my base self sustaining without having to look at it? See the discussion above. You do not have to keep the parts in focus. The life support monitoring window will not track the fact that you have recyclers while the ship is unloaded, but when you load it again, you'll see that your resources are updated to reflect that, indeed, your recyclers have been working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacedInvader Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) 22 minutes ago, danfarnsy said: Everything that worked before works now, the same way it worked before. Since you are not inclined to believe it coming straight from the horse's mouth, and you're worried about killing kerbals, perhaps you can try a test in a new sandbox save and see for yourself how the parts behave. There's no better way to trust your parts than to test for yourself. See the discussion above. You do not have to keep the parts in focus. The life support monitoring window will not track the fact that you have recyclers while the ship is unloaded, but when you load it again, you'll see that your resources are updated to reflect that, indeed, your recyclers have been working. It's not that I was disinclined to believe you, its that the responses didn't seem to clearly indicate one way or another until your most recent response to @Valkyria90. Because we only had the information window to work with and not a better understanding of the underlying processes, and because of the discussion about the lack of proper background processing, it was easy to believe that it wasn't working correctly. When you clearly stated that the parts will be working in the background, even if the information window doesn't update, that changed the information we had to work with. I will still probably test it of my own accord, but at least now I know what to expect. EDIT: I will also point out that things don't need to change in order to break when moving from one version of KSP to another, so there were / are justifiable grounds to be concerned about broken functionality. Edited May 11, 2016 by SpacedInvader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MscG Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Any plan to put this new version on CKAN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
space jake Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 3 hours ago, MscG said: Any plan to put this new version on CKAN? And, for that matter, SpaceDock? Thank you for all the work you're doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MscG Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 1 hour ago, space jake said: And, for that matter, SpaceDock? Thank you for all the work you're doing! I saw that the mod just spawned an hour ago in the CKAN-meta repository but it depends on the TACLS-Config module, which is still outdated and points to an older .zip file Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4ssler Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Hello to all, first time i registered on a website like this, because i am happy to read that this mod i alive. And great to see people spend many time to make this game better. Thank you. I installed tacls 0.11.3 from ckan. very happy to have it i go and watched the "life support monitoring" in the vehivle assembly building, spaceplane hanger and also at the lauchpad, if all is working and i have an issue. In the vehivle assembly building and spaceplane hanger there are shown the consumption per crew member and all works great. If i go manned or unmanned to launch something, the "life support monitoring" is empty. I have no information about consumption and days/hours left before i run out of food/water etc. I try it with and without other mods. can someone help please, or I just have to wait for the next version. Thanks a lot. greetings M4ssler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfarnsy Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, MscG said: On CKAN? It's on CKAN! 1 hour ago, space jake said: SpaceDock? No plans yet, but it sounds like a solid idea! 48 minutes ago, MscG said: the TACLS-Config module, which is still outdated If by "outdated," you mean it works perfectly fine and requires no changes, then yes, it's outdated! 44 minutes ago, M4ssler said: If i go manned or unmanned to launch something, the "life support monitoring" is empty. I have no information about consumption and days/hours left before i run out of food/water etc. Welcome to the forums! Glad to have you. Pre-launch is a different status where TACLS resources aren't consumed. Try launching your craft. It will update and be good to go. If it doesn't, let me know. Edited May 11, 2016 by danfarnsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MscG Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 21 minutes ago, danfarnsy said: If by "outdated," you mean it works perfectly fine and requires no changes, then yes, it's outdated! I suppose that the config file is not changed... yet! As a programmer, I think that this will lead to nasty bugs at the first future change which involves the config file, if you forget to update the configuration module entry on CKAN. Mine is just a suggestion: keeping things synchronized will help you a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4ssler Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 I´m sorry for my question. It works perfect after launch! 1 hour ago, danfarnsy said: It's on CKAN! No plans yet, but it sounds like a solid idea! If by "outdated," you mean it works perfectly fine and requires no changes, then yes, it's outdated! Welcome to the forums! Glad to have you. Pre-launch is a different status where TACLS resources aren't consumed. Try launching your craft. It will update and be good to go. If it doesn't, let me know. I´m sorry for my question and use your time. It works perfect after launch and resources are consumed! Now i can start my carrer ;-) Thanks for answer and help Wish you all the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfarnsy Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 9 minutes ago, M4ssler said: I´m sorry for my question. It works perfect after launch! I´m sorry for my question and use your time. No apologies necessary. I'm glad it's sorted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtedastro Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 Hello to all. Does anyone have or know of a config for HabTech and TACLS? I am looking all around but have not found one yet. Cheers and thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfarnsy Posted May 11, 2016 Author Share Posted May 11, 2016 18 minutes ago, drtedastro said: Does anyone have or know of a config for HabTech and TACLS? So far I don't believe there is one. Care to put together a MM patch? Otherwise, I could throw it on my pile of things to eventually do. I'd likely submit it as MM-patch for HabTech to include in its own download. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtedastro Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, danfarnsy said: So far I don't believe there is one. Care to put together a MM patch? Otherwise, I could throw it on my pile of things to eventually do. I'd likely submit it as MM-patch for HabTech to include in its own download. digging around i came across this. TACLS.cfg If we (you) want to use it, I will try to find it again and get owner / creators information .. I just now grabbed it and am currently testing it. Cheers. Hab Tech Forum user: dlrk Date Posted: May 2nd. There you go. Edited May 11, 2016 by drtedastro more info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dux Aquila Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Is planned in a future update to add CO2 scrubbers to manned command modules? and in respirable atmospheres is used outside air when the atmospheric pressure is adequate? Thanks for keeping this mod alive. You are awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfarnsy Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Dux Aquila said: Is planned in a future update to add CO2 scrubbers to manned command modules? and in respirable atmospheres is used outside air when the atmospheric pressure is adequate? Thanks for keeping this mod alive. You are awesome! This is already "abstracted" through ElectricCharge consumption and the accrual of CO2 in waste containers. Essentially, scrubbed CO2 beyond storage capacity is "vented" into space. There are a few realism issues here (for instance, it's hard to vent CO2 without venting something it's saturated in, like water. For your second question: TACLS does provide outside air when it's available! At a low enough altitude, the air is simply free (like, you could open a window and breathe the air). Above a certain altitude, where the air can be compressed and pumped in by a fan (but you'd otherwise have difficulty breathing it) it takes electric charge, but you can still get air from outside. Above a certain altitude, you have to rely on your ship's air supplies. As of right now, I don't have plans to change the CO2 process, but I'm open to ideas and discussion. We've had some interesting discussion about LithiumHydroxide and other CO2 stowage processes. I think those will come later rather than sooner. Some game mechanics under the hood are higher priority, e.g., 3.75m parts for when you need to kill a lot of kerbals all at once. We'll talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinker Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) Personally one thing I don't like about TAC is the large number of tanks it comes from with. The number of tanks can be reduced by 95% if we replace them by a new tanks that allows you to switch resourses + texture/ mesh switch using IFS Edited May 12, 2016 by FreeThinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfarnsy Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 Just now, FreeThinker said: Personally one thing I don't like about TAC is the number of tanks it comes from with. The number of tanks can be reduced by 95% if we replace them by a new tanks that allows you to switch resourses + texture/ mesh switch using IFS Glad we're on the same page! We don't like the parts editor redundancy either, so it's on my list of things to do. 95% reduction is a bit optimistic, but it can definitely be made smaller than it is. Discussion earlier in the thread was focused on exactly this problem and the use of mesh/texture switches for parts. It's definitely on my radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3tal_Warrior Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 53 minutes ago, danfarnsy said: There are a few realism issues here (for instance, it's hard to vent CO2 without venting something it's saturated in, like water. Not really. The CaO way I described earlier works without saturating anything with CO2 - in the recycling step you just have dry CaCO3 and heat it - there's CO2 (gaseous) and solid CaO afterwards, which can be separated through membranes. Even the pressure for storing could be generated by the reactor itself, although it slightly changes the reaction equilibrium towards CaCO3. With the NaCO3 way you're correct, there's one H2O for every molecule of CO2, but even then water could be separated by cooling it below zero (or - more exactly - below something about -20°C), which would freeze the water and trapping only a small portion of CO2 within the ice. And since this is water used for the CO2 separating step, one could just recycle it to that step and the CO2 dragged with it would only slightly diminish the capacity of the separating solution. There's just technical problems, no natural laws being in the way. Venting CO2 without losing more than a few molecules of water isn't impossible, it's just a bit more complicated depending on your way of doing things. You definitely don't need to dissolve CO2 in water to vent it, this would be horribly inefficient and blow out way more water than CO2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfarnsy Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 ERmaergerg, would you people stop nitpicking things that aren't the point?! My crazy is up to here. A good clue that it might not be the point: (it was in paranthesis). This deluge of know-it-alls in the details who can't see the social forest for the trees are going to make me a crusty modder before my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3tal_Warrior Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) I'm sorry, I'll just stop telling you everything is good as you do it then... Edit: Just to clear things up: I told you in length that the current way you're doing things is absolutely realistic, and the problem you might see with realism isn't there at all. You do a good job. Edited May 12, 2016 by M3tal_Warrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfarnsy Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 (edited) 52 minutes ago, M3tal_Warrior said: Edit: Just to clear things up: I told you in length that the current way you're doing things is absolutely realistic, and the problem you might see with realism isn't there at all. You do a good job. I didn't have a personal problem with the realism as it stands, knowing that the CO2 recycling or sequestration has a number of different avenues which are represented by a slightly more abstract model: electric charge consumption. The CaO is a viable avenue that lines up well with how TACLS handles it, but the TACLS model is not so explicit as using CaO, nor has it included the particular energy requirements per Kerbal for using that. My particular statement and frustration came from me trying to make a broader point: the model may line up well with any given realistic extraction method, buit is not explicitly identified with any realistic model for CO2 extraction. That is what my statement about realism was talking about. It wasn't whether the current system could be identified with a good real life analogue, but only that it hadn't been, and there are a number of complex choices available if we choose to make that real-life process explicit instead of abstract. Edit: For what it's worth, I apologize for my cranky/crazy response. I'm sorry. Sure, I felt irritated, but my response was way out of proportion. Edited May 12, 2016 by danfarnsy Trying to be less crusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M3tal_Warrior Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 hour ago, danfarnsy said: Edit: For what it's worth, I apologize for my cranky/crazy response. I'm sorry. Sure, I felt irritated, but my response was way out of proportion. No harm done. For what I know about you, you're a veteran, I'm a chemist studying biology. We both like computers and programming, so we sorta are a perfect match regarding the topic. Just give a shout if you need a bit of help on 'my' subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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