cyberpunkdreams Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 All fair points. KSP does expect you to do a lot manually that's done automatically in real life (unless you use MechJeb). On the flip side, comm sats get replaced fairly frequency in reality (as more capability is required, etc) which isn't a thing in KSP. There is a mod that simulates orbital decay and station keeping, although I doubt it'll do anything for this particular problem. I've also wanted L points in the game (even if they're just faked somehow). Maybe all this is the seed for yet another mod... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarin Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 2 hours ago, cyberpunkdreams said: I've also wanted L points in the game (even if they're just faked somehow). Maybe all this is the seed for yet another mod... The biggest problem with L points is that L1, L2, and L3 get really flippin' weird when you don't have n-body simulation. Do you just give it its own tiny SOI? Do you just have a magical point to "anchor" to? Do you adjust the orbits of things vaguely near them? At least L4 and L5 are orbits that can be sort-of mimicked in KSP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberpunkdreams Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Jarin said: The biggest problem with L points is that L1, L2, and L3 get really flippin' weird when you don't have n-body simulation. Do you just give it its own tiny SOI? Do you just have a magical point to "anchor" to? Do you adjust the orbits of things vaguely near them? At least L4 and L5 are orbits that can be sort-of mimicked in KSP. Without knowing much about KSP's internals, my assumption was just to give them their own SOI, but granted that might have lots of other problems... it would have the advantage of making them potential science sources as well though, which is a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blu3wolf Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 8 hours ago, Jarin said: The biggest problem with L points is that L1, L2, and L3 get really flippin' weird when you don't have n-body simulation. Do you just give it its own tiny SOI? Do you just have a magical point to "anchor" to? Do you adjust the orbits of things vaguely near them? At least L4 and L5 are orbits that can be sort-of mimicked in KSP. There is of course the solution of using n-body gravitation: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiService Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, Errol said: Is it possible to view the results of that poll without voting again? I've already cast my opinions and don't want to cheat, but voted really early on so I have no idea what the result developed into... 20 hours ago, cyberpunkdreams said: Only with access to behind the scenes stuff I think... I've just looked for another way, but couldn't find any. However, it is public, so I don't see a problem with granting that access, but I'll wait for an RT dev to say something before granting that. The spreadsheet with the responses is public. cynerpunkdreams posted this public link and I checked with netisa on this too. Edited January 26, 2017 by TaxiService Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neitsa Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) Hello All Just a quick note on the poll, I had started to sort the results but just finished lately when @TaxiService reminded me of them. You can download a summary here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19010758/RT_Poll.pdf Note: Tables are to be read from bottom to top (e.g. in the "Most Yes" table, the entry with the most yes is at the bottom). No real clear "winners" (maybe #516 & #436) but some entries were clearly rejected (#456 received some tomatoes :p). Edited January 26, 2017 by neitsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Situation: Active vessel is under manual control (SAS), other vessel is under RTC control, set to hold custom orientation, and it is within the physics range. Active vessel is approaching the other vessel. Question: Why RT computers decides to rotate to preset orientation, only when active vessel is at about 200m from other vessel? Isn't it supposed to be active from 2.3km range? Consequences: You need to disable / set to Hold RTC of the target vessel, or else it will interfere with docking by suddenly rotating vessel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiService Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, WildLynx said: Situation: Active vessel is under manual control (SAS), other vessel is under RTC control, set to hold custom orientation, and it is within the physics range. Active vessel is approaching the other vessel. Question: Why RT computers decides to rotate to preset orientation, only when active vessel is at about 200m from other vessel? Isn't it supposed to be active from 2.3km range? Consequences: You need to disable / set to Hold RTC of the target vessel, or else it will interfere with docking by suddenly rotating vessel. Hi, I need more details or exact reproduction steps because I can't reproduce this on the stock KSP 1.2.2 and the latest RT develop branch. The other vessel under remote control has a custom orientation (with disabled SAS) set up and holds to it, regardless of my active vessel (also under remote control and manual SAS) being outside 2.3km range, within 200m range and outside 200m range. Edited Edited January 28, 2017 by TaxiService Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamori Yuki Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 On 23. 1. 2017 at 9:55 PM, linuxgurugamer said: Ok. So I'm going to go ahead and move ahead with this. I already have the code (from the Selectable Module Antenna I wrote), and once I can get someone to make me a couple of parts, I'll be able to have that added. I'd like to know more about your plans for implementation. At least for inspiration. On 25. 1. 2017 at 4:27 AM, cyberpunkdreams said: Are omni antennas supposed to be able to connect to dishes at much longer than the usual range? Cause my C-16s are showing the usual range (2.5Mm) but seem to be able to connect to dishes and KSC (not other omnis) from Mun and beyond. What kind of range model you're using? Square root model woud do this, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamori Yuki Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 As for keeping satellites in place, I think it makes a great idea for a new mod. This would be way out of scope for Remote Tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxgurugamer Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 36 minutes ago, Yamori Yuki said: On 1/23/2017 at 3:55 PM, linuxgurugamer said: Ok. So I'm going to go ahead and move ahead with this. I already have the code (from the Selectable Module Antenna I wrote), and once I can get someone to make me a couple of parts, I'll be able to have that added. I'd like to know more about your plans for implementation. At least for inspiration. I don't have any, yet. But, Multiple parts. Lowest tech parts will use more EC than the highest tech parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacedInvader Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Question about the math of the multiple antenna multiplier option: From the way it reads, it seems that if you set it to 0.5 and then only have 2 omnis on your craft, then the result is no bonus at all because (X*2)*0.5 = X. Am I correct in reading it this way, or is the math handled differently? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyAce Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I want more groundstations like in stock... but this mod seems to delete all of them. Is there any way to keep the ground stations as vanilla? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 On 28.01.2017 at 4:47 PM, TaxiService said: Hi, I need more details or exact reproduction steps because I can't reproduce this on the stock KSP 1.2.2 and the latest RT develop branch. The other vessel under remote control has a custom orientation (with disabled SAS) set up and holds to it, regardless of my active vessel (also under remote control and manual SAS) being outside 2.3km range, within 200m range and outside 200m range. Edited Oops, I was thinking that it's some sort of limitation, and thus not followed my bug reporting procedure: logs, screens, steps ... I need a save made just before tanker entered physics range of OSS3 ... that save may be overwritten for now ... I will try to catch that situation again and this time log everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doktorstick Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 2 hours ago, EasyAce said: I want more groundstations like in stock... but this mod seems to delete all of them. Is there any way to keep the ground stations as vanilla? Check out SETI RemoteTechConfig. It'll add ground stations, but it does change other rules. Alternatively, you can copy the ground stations section from the SETI version into the RT settings file to add them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberpunkdreams Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 On 28/01/2017 at 10:40 PM, Yamori Yuki said: What kind of range model you're using? Square root model woud do this, I think. Aye, I had the wrong root model selected... doh! I can't remember changing it from the default, but I guess I must have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiService Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 9 hours ago, SpacedInvader said: Question about the math of the multiple antenna multiplier option: From the way it reads, it seems that if you set it to 0.5 and then only have 2 omnis on your craft, then the result is no bonus at all because (X*2)*0.5 = X. Am I correct in reading it this way, or is the math handled differently? Thanks. Assumed both Omnis is of the same part (same range), the math takes the range of the max-range X and computes on the remaining antenna, resulting in the range bonus of (X)*0.5 for both antennas. 8 hours ago, EasyAce said: I want more groundstations like in stock... but this mod seems to delete all of them. Is there any way to keep the ground stations as vanilla? Someone (can't find his post here) posted this MM patch for the extra ground stations. @RemoteTechSettings { !GroundStations,* {} GroundStations { STATION { Guid = 5105f5a9-d628-41c6-ad4b-21154e8fc488 Name = Mission Control Latitude = -0.13133150339126601 Longitude = -74.594841003417997 Height = 75 Body = 1 MarkColor = 0.996078014,0,0,1 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 75000000 Dish = 0 CosAngle = 1 UpgradeableOmni = 4E+06;3.0E+07;7.5E+07 UpgradeableDish = UpgradeableCosAngle = } } } STATION { Guid = c4020a3a-3725-4644-9185-e092ea000772 Name = North Station One Latitude = 63.0959948383325 Longitude = -90.0686195497409 Height = 2864.02024834626 Body = 1 MarkColor = 1,0.8,0,0.7 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 1E+06 } } } STATION { Guid = a48ebe2b-dd33-43cd-b6fc-0ff01d286a28 Name = Baikerbanur Latitude = 20.6820169733268 Longitude = -146.499776485631 Height = 426.953797265305 Body = 1 MarkColor = 1,0.8,0,0.7 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 1E+06 } } } STATION { Guid = 1b85e542-f333-42c4-b947-63c68fa1c07e Name = Crater Rim Latitude = 9.44728971864159 Longitude = -172.106644413907 Height = 4115.64748514118 Body = 1 MarkColor = 1,0.8,0,0.7 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 1E+06 } } } STATION { Guid = 924a1f04-65fd-43b0-b5d9-92b42622b47a Name = Mesa South Latitude = -59.5861679042582 Longitude = -25.8627095278566 Height = 5455.44101071125 Body = 1 MarkColor = 1,0.8,0,0.7 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 1E+06 } } } STATION { Guid = 5ff6a830-98a2-488f-bdd4-4322511222d6 Name = Harvester Massif Latitude = -11.9503778337192 Longitude = 33.7373248915106 Height = 2701.44694075082 Body = 1 MarkColor = 1,0.8,0,0.7 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 1E+06 } } } STATION { Guid = 6de2d751-bbbc-4892-80d7-d3852ab99d9b Name = Nye Island Latitude = 5.36081966792828 Longitude = 108.546677792524 Height = 411.161351518473 Body = 1 MarkColor = 1,0.8,0,0.7 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 1E+06 } } } } } Put it in a cfg file and toss into your GameData's RemoteTech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacedInvader Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 57 minutes ago, TaxiService said: Assumed both Omnis is of the same part (same range), the math takes the range of the max-range X and computes on the remaining antenna, resulting in the range bonus of (X)*0.5 for both antennas. Right, but is the net effect X*1.5 or 2X*0.5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaxiService Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 22 minutes ago, SpacedInvader said: Right, but is the net effect X*1.5 or 2X*0.5? The net effect for each X is X*1.5 so yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacedInvader Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Just now, TaxiService said: The net effect for each X is X*1.5 so yup Ok, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheBoom Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Ok, so what does Remote Tech bring to the game that the new stock communications network system doesn't... Because I'm starting to wonder if Remote Tech is even worth installing considering the fact that stock KSP already has a comm network built in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcs123 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, HereComesTheBoom said: Ok, so what does Remote Tech bring to the game that the new stock communications network system doesn't... Because I'm starting to wonder if Remote Tech is even worth installing considering the fact that stock KSP already has a comm network built in. There was debate in this thread when KSP 1.2.0 is released. Somewhere around page #20. You might need to read few pages before/after, I no longer recall exact spot. RT is similar, but yet different in some aspects. I will note a few, as much as I can recall from top of my head, so take this with a bit of grain of salt. - stock antennas - no need to adjust specific dirrection where antenna is pointed. You need to do that in RT on both end of communication node. - there is no signal delay in stock comm - you can choose to have signal delay or not in RT - there is no flight computer in stock as there is no need for it - you have flight computer in RT that you will need for proper node execution if you have enabled signal delay. Either that or you might prefer kOS autopilot - there is much more diversity of antennas in RT and they were more balanced for career gameplay (mass EC consuption, etc.), just my personal opinion - many other differences that you can only notice once you start using RT that I most probably forgot about because it was blended in game quite well If you just want some comm system that will give you need for launching comm sats/probes and don't want complex system that RT provide, then stick with stock game. However if you want some more chalange in game and don't mind learning a bit more of everything then give RT a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathair Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 On 2017-01-30 at 2:26 PM, SpacedInvader said: Question about the math of the multiple antenna multiplier option: From the way it reads, it seems that if you set it to 0.5 and then only have 2 omnis on your craft, then the result is no bonus at all because (X*2)*0.5 = X. Am I correct in reading it this way, or is the math handled differently? The range of the best antenna on the craft is unmodified by the multiple antenna multiplier. Take all the other antennae on that craft, add their ranges together and multiply that total by the multiplier you set. Add that result to the best antenna range and that's your total range. With a multiplier of 0.5; If you had 2 identical omnis with a range of 10, the total craft range would be 10 + (10 * 0.5) = 15 If you had 3 identical omnis with a range of 10, the total craft range would be 10 + ((10+10)*0.5) = 20 7 minutes ago, kcs123 said: If you just want some comm system that will give you need for launching comm sats/probes and don't want complex system that RT provide, then stick with stock game. However if you want some more chalange in game and don't mind learning a bit more of everything then give RT a try. 5 I think of the new stock comm system as RT-Lite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbaratu Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I stopped using RT after the new stock comms was out because of one small thing about RT that really ticked me off, that stock comms fixes, and that's this: In the real world, you don't need a high powered massively battery-straining strong transmitter on BOTH sides of the communication. You can compensate for a low powered system on one end by having a much more high powered system on the other end. We put the high powered antennas on Earth, not on the little probes where all mass has to be conserved. Stock comms models this but RT didn't. In RT you needed to have a massive amount of power on an interstellar probe. Stock also models the idea of having partial spotty communications (although the effect of partial connections in stock comms is backward - you have immediate manual control but not computer-assisted control when you have partial communication, which is the opposite way around to how it should have been done - you should have been required to do only computerized control). Anyway, RT is entirely Boolean. Either you have a perfect connection or nothing. I just got so tired of dealing with this. If there was a variant of RT that worked with the stock comms connectivity model, but had the distance delay of RT, I'd consider using RT again. When the first RT to work with 1.2 came out, it was nothing more than a pure replacement of stock comms - you just disable stock comms and use RT's comms system instead. If there was a version of it that worked WITH stock, rather than INSTEAD of stock, I'd definitely look into using it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyAce Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 15 hours ago, TaxiService said: Assumed both Omnis is of the same part (same range), the math takes the range of the max-range X and computes on the remaining antenna, resulting in the range bonus of (X)*0.5 for both antennas. Someone (can't find his post here) posted this MM patch for the extra ground stations. @RemoteTechSettings { !GroundStations,* {} GroundStations { STATION { Guid = 5105f5a9-d628-41c6-ad4b-21154e8fc488 Name = Mission Control Latitude = -0.13133150339126601 Longitude = -74.594841003417997 Height = 75 Body = 1 MarkColor = 0.996078014,0,0,1 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 75000000 Dish = 0 CosAngle = 1 UpgradeableOmni = 4E+06;3.0E+07;7.5E+07 UpgradeableDish = UpgradeableCosAngle = } } } STATION { Guid = c4020a3a-3725-4644-9185-e092ea000772 Name = North Station One Latitude = 63.0959948383325 Longitude = -90.0686195497409 Height = 2864.02024834626 Body = 1 MarkColor = 1,0.8,0,0.7 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 1E+06 } } } STATION { Guid = a48ebe2b-dd33-43cd-b6fc-0ff01d286a28 Name = Baikerbanur Latitude = 20.6820169733268 Longitude = -146.499776485631 Height = 426.953797265305 Body = 1 MarkColor = 1,0.8,0,0.7 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 1E+06 } } } STATION { Guid = 1b85e542-f333-42c4-b947-63c68fa1c07e Name = Crater Rim Latitude = 9.44728971864159 Longitude = -172.106644413907 Height = 4115.64748514118 Body = 1 MarkColor = 1,0.8,0,0.7 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 1E+06 } } } STATION { Guid = 924a1f04-65fd-43b0-b5d9-92b42622b47a Name = Mesa South Latitude = -59.5861679042582 Longitude = -25.8627095278566 Height = 5455.44101071125 Body = 1 MarkColor = 1,0.8,0,0.7 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 1E+06 } } } STATION { Guid = 5ff6a830-98a2-488f-bdd4-4322511222d6 Name = Harvester Massif Latitude = -11.9503778337192 Longitude = 33.7373248915106 Height = 2701.44694075082 Body = 1 MarkColor = 1,0.8,0,0.7 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 1E+06 } } } STATION { Guid = 6de2d751-bbbc-4892-80d7-d3852ab99d9b Name = Nye Island Latitude = 5.36081966792828 Longitude = 108.546677792524 Height = 411.161351518473 Body = 1 MarkColor = 1,0.8,0,0.7 Antennas { ANTENNA { Omni = 1E+06 } } } } } Put it in a cfg file and toss into your GameData's RemoteTech. Zhanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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