blowfish

[1.5.1] Advanced Jet Engine v2.12.1 (Nov 11)

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19 minutes ago, blowfish said:

Welcome to the forums!

 The jet and ramjet modules require intakes but not intake air.  AJE has its own intake calculation that eliminate the resource.

Thank you :)

Another question.. Does AJEInlet also acts as a standard ModuleResourceIntake? I mean, does AJEInlet override its parent behavior? Will IntakeAir stacks and be useable for other parts using it?
If so, thinking about if it is intended may be an idea.

Also, do you take pull request on git? I may submit a few extended configs once I'm done adjusting AJE to my multiples part mods.

Edited by Ryujin no Mai
Typos

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38 minutes ago, Ryujin no Mai said:

Thank you :)

Another question.. Does AJEInlet also acts as a standard ModuleResourceIntake? I mean, does AJEInlet override its parent behavior? Will IntakeAir stacks and be useable for other parts using it?
If so, thinking about if it is intended may be an idea.

Also, do you take pull request on git? I may submit a few extended configs once I'm done adjusting AJE to my multiples part mods.

I think we left it as also generating IntakeAir if it was set to originally.  Not 100% sure though.

PRs are definitely accepted!

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33 minutes ago, Ryujin no Mai said:

Thank you :)

Another question.. Does AJEInlet also acts as a standard ModuleResourceIntake? I mean, does AJEInlet override its parent behavior? Will IntakeAir stacks and be useable for other parts using it?
If so, thinking about if it is intended may be an idea.

Also, do you take pull request on git? I may submit a few extended configs once I'm done adjusting AJE to my multiples part mods.

Of course we take pull requests but make sure you test fly before pushing.

 

On how to make AJE confgs

 

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On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 3:20 AM, blowfish said:

The idle thrust is an estimate of what is required to keep air flowing through the engine.  I have no idea if the idle thrust AJE produces is comparable to actual engines, if you have any data on this I would be interested to see it.

Are the links on the previous page the kind of data you are looking for?

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2 hours ago, Kitspace said:

Are the links on the previous page the kind of data you are looking for?

The 2nd one might be useful (I can't pull any thrust measurements out of the 2nd).  Haven't looked at what AJE actually produces for that engine yet though, or whether it's possible to adjust given AJE's current engine simulations.

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19 hours ago, blowfish said:

The 2nd one might be useful (I can't pull any thrust measurements out of the 2nd).

Sorry, not sure, what you mean by that?
All three links contain numbers on thrust at different throttle settings for the different engine types

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2 hours ago, Kitspace said:

Sorry, not sure, what you mean by that?
All three links contain numbers on thrust at different throttle settings for the different engine types

Actually it was the third that I meant.  In the first two I see velocity contours but no actual thrust measurements.  But maybe I'm missing them?

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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 5:37 AM, blowfish said:

Actually it was the third that I meant.  In the first two I see velocity contours but no actual thrust measurements.  But maybe I'm missing them?

In the first two documents, each page with the velocity contours contains the thrust value, near the top of the page. And the reference at the page bottom shows for which engine types that page is valid.

And I shall take a look at the idle thrust levels in the new version released, should be better now, I think

 

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1 hour ago, Kitspace said:

In the first two documents, each page with the velocity contours contains the thrust value, near the top of the page. And the reference at the page bottom shows for which engine types that page is valid.

And I shall take a look at the idle thrust levels in the new version released, should be better now, I think

 

Ahh, thanks for pointing that out, I see it now.

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Well... Reading through everything, I'm wondering about Ramjets.

Despite having the module, it is seldom used in configs. SABRE, which is a precooled ramjet combined with a closed cycle rocket, doesn't use it.

So I wonder, is the Ramjet module only good for true ramjet engines, or is it usable for scramjet and precooled ramjet^

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1 hour ago, Ryujin no Mai said:

Well... Reading through everything, I'm wondering about Ramjets.

Despite having the module, it is seldom used in configs. SABRE, which is a precooled ramjet combined with a closed cycle rocket, doesn't use it.

So I wonder, is the Ramjet module only good for true ramjet engines, or is it usable for scramjet and precooled ramjet^

The physical model of ramjet cannot simulate SCRAMjet. I don't know of a *precooled ramjet* IRL, where does the heat go?

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3 minutes ago, camlost2 said:

The physical model of ramjet cannot simulate SCRAMjet. I don't know of a *precooled ramjet* IRL, where does the heat go?

How would you emulate scramjet with current AJE?

And, you cool intake air with LH2 before compression... Look a bit more deeply into the SABRE  engine ;) If I understand properly, it works kinda like a ramjet but use cooling to compress air further.

Another interesting thing to check out could be LACE engines but I think it would be rather hard to model.

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1 hour ago, Ryujin no Mai said:

How would you emulate scramjet with current AJE?

And, you cool intake air with LH2 before compression... Look a bit more deeply into the SABRE  engine ;) If I understand properly, it works kinda like a ramjet but use cooling to compress air further.

Another interesting thing to check out could be LACE engines but I think it would be rather hard to model.

There's no scramjet and I don't think there will be one. Unless if someone can figure out a physical model and write a dedicated AJESCRAMjet module. 

No, a cooler is not 'further compressing'. Compressing increases internal energy while cooling reduces it. Energy cannot be destroyed only transferred. Ramjets don't have compressors so "precooled ramjets" don't exist.

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1 minute ago, camlost2 said:

There's no scramjet and I don't think there will be one. Unless if someone can figure out a physical model and write a dedicated AJESCRAMjet module. 

 No, a cooler is not 'further compressing'. Compressing increases internal energy while cooling reduces it. Energy cannot be destroyed only transferred. Ramjets don't have compressors so "precooled ramjets" don't exist.

Thank you..

And you seems to be right. Sorry for the questions.

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Me, once again coming with questions.

Ducted fan? Seeing most VTOL engines seems to be made with ModuleEnginesAJERotor, I'd guess the same for a ducted fan. Especially considering ducted fan wouldn't use airflow for combustion at all. Am I right?

Also, what does flapHingeOffset actually changes?

And, how would one emulate contra-rotating propellers or rotor? Looking at the coaxial rotor or the bear prop from APP, there seem to be no difference between a rotor/propeller and a contra-rotating rotor/propeller with the same number of blades.

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15 hours ago, Ryujin no Mai said:

Me, once again coming with questions.

Ducted fan? Seeing most VTOL engines seems to be made with ModuleEnginesAJERotor, I'd guess the same for a ducted fan. Especially considering ducted fan wouldn't use airflow for combustion at all. Am I right?

Also, what does flapHingeOffset actually changes?

And, how would one emulate contra-rotating propellers or rotor? Looking at the coaxial rotor or the bear prop from APP, there seem to be no difference between a rotor/propeller and a contra-rotating rotor/propeller with the same number of blades.

ModuleEnginesAJERotor is helicopters only. it provides aerodynamics of the blade disc, and also (most importantly) collective and cyclic control & other features you only find on helicopters. For a ducted fan without those features a turbofan model is enough, I remember I made a F-35B engine years ago. 

If you don't know I guess you can google what a flapping hinge offset is on a helicopter rotor. I game it's just a pseudo-realistic feature adding to cyclic control authority. Most choppers except 2-bladed light choppers should have it.

rotating direction can be defined by clockWise which defaults -1. For Russian (like Mi-17) and European choppers they should be 1, for coaxial , 0.

I don't remember much about propeller since most of the propeller code was from NathenKell. But notice this: the tendency of rolling in one direction on a prop aircraft is largely caused by the prop blades disturbing airflow over the wings, not just torque.

Edited by camlost2

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3 minutes ago, camlost2 said:

ModuleEnginesAJERotor is helicopters only. it provides aerodynamics of the blade disc, and also (most importantly) collective and cyclic control & other features you only find on helicopters. For a ducted fan without those features a turbofan model is enough, I remember I made a F-35B engine years ago. 

Considering QuizTech compatibility in AJE itself, 

@PART[cyclone]:FOR[AJE]
{
	@title=#LOC_aje_part_cyclone_title // Pratt & Whitney F-135 Lift fan 3/4
	@description= #LOC_aje_part_cyclone_description
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
	{
		@name = ModuleEnginesAJERotor
		IspMultiplier = 1
		useOxygen = true
		rpm = 3000
		r = 1
		weight = 6750
		power = 26250
		buff = 0.0001
		BSFC = 8.47e-8

		@maxThrust=67.5
		@engineAccelerationSpeed = 1.5
        @engineDecelerationSpeed = 1.5
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleReactionWheel
		PitchTorque = 0
	}
}

@PART[KFAN]:FOR[AJE]
{
	@title=#LOC_aje_part_KFAN_title // Pratt & Whitney F-135 Lift fan
	@description= #LOC_aje_part_KFAN_description
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
	{
		@name = ModuleEnginesAJERotor
		IspMultiplier = 1
		useOxygen = true
		rpm = 3000
		r = 1
		weight = 9000
		power = 35000
		buff = 0.0001
		BSFC = 8.47e-8

		@maxThrust=90
		@engineAccelerationSpeed = 1.5
        @engineDecelerationSpeed = 1.5
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleReactionWheel
		PitchTorque = 0
	}
}

@PART[quizTechVTOLwing]:FOR[AJE]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
	{
		@name = ModuleEnginesAJERotor
		IspMultiplier = 1
		useOxygen = true
		rpm = 3000
		r = 1.23
		weight = 10500
		power = 40000
		BSFC = 8.47e-8
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleReactionWheel

		PitchTorque = 10
		YawTorque = 10
		RollTorque = 5
	}
}

ModuleEnginesAJERotor does have other uses...

3 minutes ago, camlost2 said:

 I don't remember much about propeller since most of the propeller code was from NathenKell. But notice this: the tendency of rolling in one direction on a prop aircraft is largely caused by the prop blades disturbing airflow over the wings, not just torque.

That I knew. And contra-rotating props do negates that tendency somewhat. If I look at this config from AJEExtended,

+PART[KP12]:FOR[AJE]
{
	@name = AJP_NK12MV
	@title= Kuznetsov NK-12MV
	@manufacturer= Kuznetsov
	@description= The world's most powerfull turboprop, powering the Soviet TU-95 "Bear" Bomber.
	@mass=2.9
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
	{
		@name=ModuleEnginesAJEPropeller
		IspMultiplier = 1
		useOxygen = true

		minRPM = 2000
		maxRPM = 5000
		power = 14795
		gearratio = 0.5 //Total guess
		BSFC = 8.47E-8
		ramAir = 1
		exhaustThrust = 0.6
		meredithEffect = 0.002
		boost0 = 0
		rated0 = 0
		boost1 = 0
		rated1 = 0
		switchAlt = -1
		turbo = false
		wastegateMP = 52.5
		propName = HS6501A-0x4
		
		%propDiam = 5.6
				
		 //8-bladed
		%CtTweak = 2
		%CpTweak = 2
	}
}

There seems to have a way to avoid creating both engines.. Unless this config is simply wrong.

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5 hours ago, Ryujin no Mai said:

That I knew. And contra-rotating props do negates that tendency somewhat. If I look at this config from AJEExtended,

You miss my point, the rolling tendency doesn't exist in the propeller code, and it'll be hard to simulate realistically

So a contra-rotating propeller should be the same with a 8-blade prop. But a coaxial chopper is not the same with two 1/2 choppers 

Edited by camlost2

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1 minute ago, camlost2 said:

You miss my point, the rolling tendency doesn't exist in the propeller code, and it'll be hard to simulate realistically

Oh! Well... Then I guess the simplest way to emulate a contra rotating propeller would just assume all blades are on the same propeller and fudge a bit with numbers?

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3 minutes ago, Ryujin no Mai said:

Oh! Well... Then I guess the simplest way to emulate a contra rotating propeller would just assume all blades are on the same propeller and fudge a bit with numbers?

 

		 //8-bladed
		%CtTweak = 2
		%CpTweak = 2

 

this is saying in the JSBSim module, thrust coefficient and power coefficient are multiplied by 2. Number of blades is not a parameter

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Hello, I was wondering if somebody could help me build a scramjet for aje. I believe i have done this correctly but it still does not work, it says that it has melted its internals from heat. Below is the config I have set up in my Gamedata\AJE\Squad.cfg file

 

 

+PART[turboJet]:FOR[aaa_AJE]
{
    @name = aje_scramjet
    @title = Z55 Scramjet
    @manufacturer = ISRO
    @mass = 0.8
    %CoMOffset = 0, 2.0, 0
    @description = The first functional Z55 Scramjet. Works best when faster than Mach 8. This engine provides no thrust below Mach 4!

    !MODEL,1:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp] {} // FIXME - it should have internals, but a compressor looks wrong.

    !MODULE[ModuleGimbal] {}

    @MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
    {
        @name = ModuleEnginesAJEscramjet
        @maxThrust = 1000
        @useEngineResponseTime = False

        Area = 0.5
        Mdes = 15
        Tdes = 220
        eta_n = 0.9
        FHV = 35000000
        thrustUpperLimit = 800
    }

    @MODULE[FXModuleAnimateThrottle]:HAS[#animationName[TRJ_Heat]]
    {
        @name = ModuleAnimateHeatAJEJet
        ThermalAnim = #$animationName$

        %lerpMin = 1100
    }

    @MODULE[ModuleAJEJetAnimateNozzleArea]
    {
        minArea = 0.4
        maxArea = 1.25
        %calculateAreas = false;
    }

    // Actually undoes the first patch, but ehh
    @MODULE[ModuleAJEJetAnimateAfterburner]
    {
        @name = FXModuleAnimateThrottle
        dependOnEngineState = true
    }
}

@PART[aje_scramjet]:NEEDS[!RealPlume,!MP_Nazari]:FOR[AJE]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesAJEJet]
    {
        %runningEffectName = smoke
        %spoolEffectName = power_wet
    }
}

Edited by lk00david
just fleshing out the comment

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6 hours ago, lk00david said:

Hello, I was wondering if somebody could help me build a scramjet for aje. I believe i have done this correctly but it still does not work, it says that it has melted its internals from heat. Below is the config I have set up in my Gamedata\AJE\Squad.cfg file

Spoiler


+PART[turboJet]:FOR[aaa_AJE]
{
    @name = aje_scramjet
    @title = Z55 Scramjet
    @manufacturer = ISRO
    @mass = 0.8
    %CoMOffset = 0, 2.0, 0
    @description = The first functional Z55 Scramjet. Works best when faster than Mach 8. This engine provides no thrust below Mach 4!

    !MODEL,1:NEEDS[VenStockRevamp] {} // FIXME - it should have internals, but a compressor looks wrong.

    !MODULE[ModuleGimbal] {}

    @MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
    {
        @name = ModuleEnginesAJEscramjet
        @maxThrust = 1000
        @useEngineResponseTime = False

        Area = 0.5
        Mdes = 15
        Tdes = 220
        eta_n = 0.9
        FHV = 35000000
        thrustUpperLimit = 800
    }

    @MODULE[FXModuleAnimateThrottle]:HAS[#animationName[TRJ_Heat]]
    {
        @name = ModuleAnimateHeatAJEJet
        ThermalAnim = #$animationName$

        %lerpMin = 1100
    }

    @MODULE[ModuleAJEJetAnimateNozzleArea]
    {
        minArea = 0.4
        maxArea = 1.25
        %calculateAreas = false;
    }

    // Actually undoes the first patch, but ehh
    @MODULE[ModuleAJEJetAnimateAfterburner]
    {
        @name = FXModuleAnimateThrottle
        dependOnEngineState = true
    }
}

@PART[aje_scramjet]:NEEDS[!RealPlume,!MP_Nazari]:FOR[AJE]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesAJEJet]
    {
        %runningEffectName = smoke
        %spoolEffectName = power_wet
    }
}

 

There is no such thing as ModuleEnginesAJEscramjet, and no scramjet model in AJE.  Not enough data on scramjet performance has been published to implement one.

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12 hours ago, blowfish said:

There is no such thing as ModuleEnginesAJEscramjet, and no scramjet model in AJE.  Not enough data on scramjet performance has been published to implement one.

yeah, I changed it back to ModuleEnginesAJEramjet

However the issue I am having at this point is that it spontaneously explodes when loaded on a ship in game.

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3 hours ago, lk00david said:

yeah, I changed it back to ModuleEnginesAJEramjet

However the issue I am having at this point is that it spontaneously explodes when loaded on a ship in game.

There's a maxEngineTemp field on the module you can set.  It defaults to 4000 K

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