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[1.5.1] Advanced Jet Engine v2.12.1 (Nov 11)


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16 hours ago, blowfish said:

 But yeah, now that I think about it, RealPlume would need to be configured specifically to work with AJE (at least for anything with an afterburner).

Reported that in RealPlume-Stock's thread and posted a fix for AJE engines and RealPlume effects worked together. However, if incompatibility persists I think people should be warned of that because for me it took at least 1.5 years to accidentally realize that I was playing stock instead of AJE all this time.

And playing with the true AJE I've noticed a pair of weird issues: when an engine is inactive all it's part menu data is 0 but alternator output is 0.25 EC/s (for J85-GE-4) and the vessel's EC stays full with engines off. I can confirm that 0.25 EC/s per engine is indeed generated.
After engines' activation all the numbers (compression ratio, thrust, fuel flow) have got values but with throttle set to 0% alternator output is at 0.25 EC/s and the engines are totally silent. Adding just a bit of throttle makes engines sound again and cutting throttle to 0 mutes them. As additional symptom RPM's cabin lights go off at 0% throttle and on at any tiny value. I think that might mean that 0% throttle is somehow treated as engines off.

I've removed all the mods and checked that for J85-GE-4 and CF34-3B. If that's intended then that's a pretty weird behavior.

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Yeah that does sound weird.  Might just have to do with how the stock effects are configured, but there sound be at least some sound at idle.

Is the phantom EC generation you speak of at idle (engine active, 0 throttle) or when the engine is shut down?

Also I'm going away for about a week and a half starting Wednesday, so feel free to bug me about this stuff again in a couple of weeks.

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6 minutes ago, blowfish said:

Yeah that does sound weird.  Might just have to do with how the stock effects are configured, but there sound be at least some sound at idle.

Is the phantom EC generation you speak of at idle (engine active, 0 throttle) or when the engine is shut down?

There's no sound at idle.  The phantom EC is generated when the engine is shut down.

Edited by Ser
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Having a spot of trouble with this engine.  Idle thrust is in the ballpark of 15 kN.  minThrottle is being ignored.

This is what I'm putting in:

@PART[GE-CF34-8C5]:AFTER[AJE]
	{
			@MODULE[ModuleEngines*]
				{
					@name = ModuleEnginesAJEJet
					@maxThrust = 64.5
					BPR = 5.0
					CPR = 28.5
					FPR = 1.5
					Mdes = 0.8
					Tdes = 250
					eta_c = 0.95
					eta_t = 0.98
					eta_n = 0.9
					FHV = 32000000
					bird = 1350
					TAB = 0
					exhaustMixer = False
					adjustableNozzle = False
					thrustUpperLimit = 200
					maxT3 = 900
					defaultTPR = 0.90
					drySFC = 0.3084428116
					dryThrust = 64.5
					minThrottle = 0.05
				}
			@MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake]
				{
					@name = AJEInlet
					Area = 1.105
					#@AJE_TPR_CURVE_DEFAULTS/PilotTube/TPRCurve {}
		
					inletTitle = #[email protected]_TPR_CURVE_DEFAULTS/PilotTube/title$
	
				inletDescription = #[email protected]_TPR_CURVE_DEFAULTS/PilotTube/description$
				}
	}

And this is what I'm getting back:

	GE-CF34-8C5
	{
		ModuleEnginesAJEJet
		{
			Area = 0.245555
			BPR = 5
			CPR = 28.5
			FPR = 1.5
			Mdes = 0.8
			Tdes = 250
			eta_c = 0.95
			eta_t = 0.98
			eta_n = 0.9
			FHV = 4.191106E+07
			bird = 1350
			TAB = 0
			exhaustMixer = False
			adjustableNozzle = False
			defaultTPR = 0.9
			minThrottle = 0.3300256
			turbineAreaRatio = 0.0621081
			drySFC = 0.3084428
			dryThrust = 64.5
			wetThrust = 0
			idleNPR = 1.1
			engineID = Cruise
			DeclaringAssemblyVersion = 2.7.3.0
			DeclaringAssemblyChecksum = B2-4C-74-C7-7F-FF-DF-77-74-48-3E-5B-C0-D3-E9-22
			SolverEnginesVersion = 3.0.0.0
			SolverEnginesAssemblyChecksum = 15-EF-7B-EB-02-D4-AC-AC-7D-7A-4D-5D-34-F9-77-D2
		}
	}

 

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@Verran unfortunately, you currently can't set minThrottle.  It's being calculated to ensure the pressure in the tailpipe is above ambient.  But you can set idleNPR which will determine how much above ambient it will set to.  The default is 1.1, you can try setting it to 1.05 or lower (just make sure it's above 1).

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Ah, so you're using NPR as EPR.  Hey, last thing.  I noticed you've got all the Tdes set to 250K and Mdes to .80.  Typically at .8 my ITTs are 750ish C, so I plugged 1023 K into Tdes, and this is the error I got:

Spoiler

[LOG 21:57:13.131] PartLoader: Part 'Justin/Engine/GE-CF34-8C5/GE-CF34-8C5' has no database record. Creating.
[LOG 21:57:13.139] DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'GE-CF34-8C5'
[EXC 21:57:13.200] ArithmeticException: NAN
    System.Math.Sign (Double value)
    AJE.SolverJet.CalculatePerformance (Double airRatio, Double commandedThrottle, Double flowMult, Double ispMult)
    SolverEngines.ModuleEnginesSolver.UpdateSolver (EngineThermodynamics ambientTherm, Double altitude, Vector3d vel, Double mach, Boolean ignited, Boolean oxygen, Boolean underwater)
    AJE.ModuleEnginesAJEJet.GetStaticThrustInfo (Boolean primaryField)
    AJE.ModuleEnginesAJEJet.GetInfo ()
    PartLoader.CompilePartInfo (.AvailablePart newPartInfo, .Part part)
    PartLoader+<CompileParts>c__Iterator62.MoveNext ()
    UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (IEnumerator enumerator, IntPtr returnValueAddress)

 

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1 hour ago, Verran said:

Ah, so you're using NPR as EPR.  Hey, last thing.  I noticed you've got all the Tdes set to 250K and Mdes to .80.  Typically at .8 my ITTs are 750ish C, so I plugged 1023 K into Tdes, and this is the error I got:

Tdes is the static air temperature, so 1023 is too high.

I'm skeptical that this is even needed though.  Mdes and Tdes are used as the mach and temperature at which the specificed CPR is the actual compression ratio.  But the impression I've gotten is that the compression ratio specified for engines is usually for static conditions, not at the "design" point of the engine.  But this predates my time working on AJE so I've mostly left it alone.

Edited by blowfish
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1 hour ago, ISE said:

Cannot find on CKAN, should I bring it up with you, or the CKAN thread? :P

It's because it "depends" on FAR which is not officially updated yet.  Truthfully it will run happily without FAR but generally lower engine performance doesn't work well with stock aero.  Install FAR manually and I believe it will show up when you refresh CKAN.

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With the new fuel flow system in v1.2 is it possible to have a 0% throttle represent an idle state that still consumes fuel? I thought I remembered a while back some discussion on idling consuming resources and that it wasn't possible. Or maybe just was too difficult to get working for little gain

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14 minutes ago, Drew Kerman said:

With the new fuel flow system in v1.2 is it possible to have a 0% throttle represent an idle state that still consumes fuel? I thought I remembered a while back some discussion on idling consuming resources and that it wasn't possible. Or maybe just was too difficult to get working for little gain

Not sure about propellers (I don't really understand that code), but for jets they should consume fuel at idle.  Do they not?

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2 minutes ago, blowfish said:

Not sure about propellers (I don't really understand that code)

Ah, I did not think to differentiate. I was referring to a propeller engine (SXTTinyprop reconfiged to the IO-550-B Piston Engine by AJE). I've not used jets yet so I didn't realize they have idle consumption

Edited by Drew Kerman
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  • 4 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Ser said:

@blowfish, Hi. Have you looked at the issue with phantom EC and engine sound muted at idle?

Phantom EC it looks like is an issue in SolverEngines.  A fix has been merged, I'll try to release it soon.

Engine sounds I haven't looked at yet.

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3 minutes ago, blowfish said:

Engine sounds I haven't looked at yet.

Seems like there's some volume curve that just starts at 0 throttle with 0 volume. As you add just a tiny bit of throttle the engine becomes barely audible with speaker's volume maxed out.

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5 minutes ago, Ser said:

Seems like there's some volume curve that just starts at 0 throttle with 0 volume. As you add just a tiny bit of throttle the engine becomes barely audible with speaker's volume maxed out.

Yeah, looking at the Squad effects configs, it looks like that's how the effects are set up to begin with (nothing to do with AJE here).  It is of course incorrect, but I don't think it's practical to go through and try to fix the effects on every engine (since it would have to be done for each one individually).  If you want to fix a few and submit a PR, feel free.

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I'm having some trouble configuring air intakes and was hoping for some advice. If I include the line !RESOURCE[IntakeAir] {} the intake seems to cause FAR to crash, I get no flight status display and aero drag and lift aren't applied properly. If I remove that line the intake's TPR drops off incredibly quickly and the engine provides virtually no thrust when travelling much more than 30-40m/s. I literally copied the config from the stock intake that works perfectly fine, so I'm not sure what's actually going on. I was hoping someone could enlighten me.

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8 minutes ago, Citizen247 said:

I'm having some trouble configuring air intakes and was hoping for some advice. If I include the line !RESOURCE[IntakeAir] {} the intake seems to cause FAR to crash, I get no flight status display and aero drag and lift aren't applied properly. If I remove that line the intake's TPR drops off incredibly quickly and the engine provides virtually no thrust when travelling much more than 30-40m/s. I literally copied the config from the stock intake that works perfectly fine, so I'm not sure what's actually going on. I was hoping someone could enlighten me.

I know FAR had issues detecting intakes without IntakeAir in the past, but I believe that has been fixed.  What version of KSP, FAR, and AJE are you using?

Logs would also be useful as always.

Edited by blowfish
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10 minutes ago, blowfish said:

I know FAR had issues detecting intakes without IntakeAir in the past, but I believe that has been fixed.  What version of KSP, FAR, and AJE are you using?

FAR and AJE are recently from GIT. AVC says AJE is 2.7.3 and FAR is 0.16. KSP version is 1.2.2 build ID 01622 (2016-12-06_07-56-46).

I will add that I did recently download an updated FAR, and I think the problem wasn't occurring before then. I don't think I've updated AJE recently though.

Edited by Citizen247
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10 minutes ago, Citizen247 said:

FAR and AJE are recently from GIT. AVC says AJE is 2.7.3 and FAR is 0.16. KSP version is 1.2.2 build ID 01622 (2016-12-06_07-56-46).

I will add that I did recently download an updated FAR, and I think the problem wasn't occurring before then. I don't think I've updated AJE recently though.

Okay, nothing obviously wrong there.  Logs then?

(I probably could have identified the problem already, and would know exactly what version of everything you had, if you'd provided logs originally, just sayin')

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12 minutes ago, blowfish said:

Okay, nothing obviously wrong there.  Logs then?

(I probably could have identified the problem already, and would know exactly what version of everything you had, if you'd provided logs originally, just sayin')

You're right, sorry. I didn't think it was a bug, but more something I was doing wrong, hence the lack of logs (that and KSP is running on my Linux desktop and I'm writing this on my windows laptop :)). Honestly I appreciate any help. I'm just reloading the game with the changes reverted, I'll give you logs ASAP.

 

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So I think this log has both the loss of intake and FAR problem in it:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AsRF_VZ1GjT3hNMQe4J1pllmiDCi7w

Toward the end, when I was testing an inlet with !RESOURCE... line there's a stream of errors like this:

[EXC 00:44:55.140] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	ModuleResourceIntake.FixedUpdate ()
	SolverEngines.AJEInlet.FixedUpdate ()
[EXC 00:44:55.141] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.FARGUI.FARFlightGUI.PhysicsCalcs.CalculateEngineAndIntakeBasedParameters (Double vesselSpeed)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.FARGUI.FARFlightGUI.PhysicsCalcs.UpdatePhysicsParameters ()
	FerramAerospaceResearch.FARGUI.FARFlightGUI.FlightGUI.FixedUpdate ()

Which is presumably the problem.

The vessel loaded before that one had an inlet with identical configs but with the !RESOURCE line commented out. It had the strange inlet bug, where the TPR tanks at relevantly low speeds.

Edited by Citizen247
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@Citizen247 Apologies, I should have remembered from the beginning that most of the AJE intake patches don't actually remove the intakeAir resource.  So that explains the exception because ModuleResourceIntake does expect a resource.  It looks like most of the AJE patches don't actually do this ... what patches are you looking at that do this?

Edited by blowfish
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@blowfish Sorry it's taken me awhile to get back to you. The configs are one's I've written (well, copy pasted :)). Originally based on the AJE-Squad inlet configs I think. I added the line when I saw it in other configs, and I was having the problem with TPR dropping for no apparent reason. It seemed to work under stock aero, the TPR worked as expected but obviously not under FAR. I think it's the QuizTechAero configs that still has them.

Anyway, that all makes sense, thanks. I'm just left with the problem of intake TPR dropping like a stone at relatively low speeds. I can't get some aircraft into the air because although they have plenty of thrust at 0m/s, by the time they're reaching take off speeds the inlet TPR has dropped so much the engine provides virtually no thrust.

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57 minutes ago, Citizen247 said:

@blowfish Sorry it's taken me awhile to get back to you. The configs are one's I've written (well, copy pasted :)). Originally based on the AJE-Squad inlet configs I think. I added the line when I saw it in other configs, and I was having the problem with TPR dropping for no apparent reason. It seemed to work under stock aero, the TPR worked as expected but obviously not under FAR. I think it's the QuizTechAero configs that still has them.

Anyway, that all makes sense, thanks. I'm just left with the problem of intake TPR dropping like a stone at relatively low speeds. I can't get some aircraft into the air because although they have plenty of thrust at 0m/s, by the time they're reaching take off speeds the inlet TPR has dropped so much the engine provides virtually no thrust.

Yeah, I noticed that issue in the QuizTechAero configs.  Will be fixed.  I don't think it occurs anywhere else.

Could you show me the config you're using.  It should be copying one of the default TPR curves, maybe that part isn't working?  You've confirmed that it's only this part - other intakes work fine?

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