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[1.4.x-1.8.x] Airplane Plus - R26.4 (Fixed issues/Github is up to date) (Dec 21, 2019)


blackheart612
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6 hours ago, blackheart612 said:

Whether hovering or not is not the matter, when the blades are deployed, it encounters resistance as opposed to when it's not angled (zero throttle). It produces lift, but it reduces RPM. It's precisely because it's 15 or -15 is why it's limited in RPM but it's also the fastest response time. If you want to get full RPM, you should throttle 15 to 0 collective pitch instead of 15 to -15. This will make descent slower, slightly less responsive hovering, but you get full RPM, and it's possible by doing the hover method before this patch. (Diazo's vertical control plugin)

I don't think I did a very good job of explaining myself, sorry. I can manually hover my craft (this time 9 ton heli with a hippo)  at 850 RPM and ~4.3 degrees collective. Activating hover mode rapidly oscillates the collective pitch, reducing RPMs, and causing the craft to fall out of the sky. Deactivating hover mode causes the craft to fly back up again. Here is a short video-

Video

The hover autopilot fights both the weight of the craft and the inertia of the craft as it jiggles it up and down. The rotor easily has enough power to lift the heli at high RPM and low collective, but cannot lift the heli at low RPM and high collective. This is honestly a very surprisingly accurate representation of real life helicopter behavior- a rotor/powerplant pair has a very specific design RPM and powerband- outside of that bad things happen. Max collective does not equal maximum lift.

This craft cannot get off the ground at max collective pitch because the rotor RPM's cant get high enough. If I reduce the collective to zero and allow the rotor to speed up, I can take off easily with only 5 degrees collective and fly around all day. 

Edited by StevenRS11
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I have an issue with the RR Kraken(and other piston-engines). For the first couple of seconds, it builds to 34 thrust. Then, suddenly it drops to 20 and slowly decreases. I'm using 14.1, KSP 1.2.2.

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@dundun92 that is the intended behavior, if you are moving during that time. The piston engines have a thrust curve as such:

	velCurve
	{
		key = 0.70 0
		key = 0.60 0.1
		key = 0.50 0.5
		key = 0.40 0.6
		key = 0.30 0.7
		key = 0.20 0.8
		key = 0.10 0.9
		key = 0.05 1
		key = 0 0.2
	}

The first number is the mach number, and the second is the percentage of thrust. At 0.05M (~17m/s), the engine will thrust at it's rated maximum (34 kN). After that, it falls off gradually until you hit Mach 0.5 (171 m/s), where it rapidly goes to near-zero. This is to simulate how propellers work in real life. It's not entirely accurate.

@Citizen247 made a set of cfgs that I use, available here: 

If you take that code and copy it into a new .cfg file in your gamedata folder, it will change the thrust curves for the propeller engines to be more realistic. Actual propellers lose efficiency quickly as the propeller tips approach Mach 1, which, depending on prop RPM, will happen around Mach 0.6-0.7 of forward travel, IIRC.

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On 3/31/2017 at 5:13 PM, Citizen247 said:

@SSgt Baloo Well, that was more difficult than I was expecting... Anyway, I think these configs should work, as ever just copy paste the code into a text file in the gamedata folder with the .cfg extension. With these engines shouldn't splutter out until the craft is travelling much faster, way faster than possible under the power the engines provide, except in a steep dive. If there's any problems please let me know.

 

@Citizen247, a while back you posted a modified cfg for the velocity curve of the engines. What does the line with a second set of entries with a negative value do?

Spoiler
@PART[51prop]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleEngines]
	{
		-velCurve {}
		velCurve
		{
			key = 0 0.9
			key = 0.05 1.1
			key = 0.1 0.6
			key = 0.15 0.4
			key = 0.17 0.15 -0.025 0.1
			key = 0.218 0.15
			key = 0.3 0.1
			key = 0.4 0
			key = 0.5 0
			key = 0.6 0
			key = 0.7 0
		}
	}
}

 

Edited by Nightside
sp.
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@Nightside

The values in velCurve are points on a bezier curve. The first two points are the location in a 2D plane, the second two define how the curve should be interpolated through that point. If you leave it blank you get a default smoothing between that point and the points either side. Where I've explicitly placed interpolations it's because there's a big change, if you leave the default smoothing the curve drops below zero between 0.17 and 0.218, meaning the engine cuts out then restarts between those two.

I.e. the curves look like this without those extra two values:
Screenshot%20from%202017-06-08%2019-11-0


And like this with them:
Screenshot%20from%202017-06-08%2019-05-5

Notice the trough on the first curve.

Edited by Citizen247
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MooHello @blackheart612. Not to add too much to your to-do list, but I drove by NASA's Super Guppy at Ellington Field today, and was inspired to ask: how about a huge goofy plane to carry 3.75m parts in a bulbous upper fuselage?

http://www.tested.com/science/space/533738-nasas-super-guppyawkward-old-and-irreplaceable/

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@StevenRS11 It works exactly as you say. It's how FS implemented it and as far as I know, there's no limiting the collective pitch when in hover mode.

@TMasterson5 They are powerful. Some parts are just faulty as it was very experimental. But the Beluga is very powerful. The Gemini is alright but I might buff it even more. Only the Hippo is probably the most faulty of them all.

@theonegalen I'm hyping myself up for now, I'm running out of easy ideas cause I'm lazy at the moment. But there's a big chance that the guppy's cargo bay "cockpit" is impossible due to the fact that the IVA is most likely not movable when the cockpit moves, as well as you can't attach anything such as gears on that part, else it would not move.
Anyway, I want to move on to one or a few Mk3 parts and Size 3 as well, but I'm trying to find more motivation right now. Still lazy like I said. I also want to keep on improving the IVAs.

Edited by blackheart612
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On 1/19/2017 at 1:46 PM, TheRagingIrishman said:

Welcome to the forums! @SufficientAnonymity made some RPM configs a while back and I finally got around to packaging them and writing a mm.cfg to autoswitch the internal from the stock one to the RPM one. Go to the link below, download it, put the stuff in the Spaces folder into /GameData/AirplanePlus/Spaces and put the APP_RPM.cfg file anywhere within /GameData. Make sure you have ModuleManager installed. There are currently no RPM internals for either of the size 2 cockpits (Droopnose and Commercial).

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/q2l9n7x8a44ar5x/AAArbJbUL3LTwbVYn4NAs2Tba?dl=0

@SufficientAnonymity would you mind making RPM internals for the 2 cockpits that currently don't have any?

@blackheart612 would you mind adding these to the next release?

Has this been updated for 1.3?

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21 hours ago, blackheart612 said:

@StevenRS11@theonegalen I'm hyping myself up for now, I'm running out of easy ideas cause I'm lazy at the moment. But there's a big chance that the guppy's cargo bay "cockpit" is impossible due to the fact that the IVA is most likely not movable when the cockpit moves, as well as you can't attach anything such as gears on that part, else it would not move.
Anyway, I want to move on to one or a few Mk3 parts and Size 3 as well, but I'm trying to find more motivation right now. Still lazy like I said. I also want to keep on improving the IVAs.

Ah, I see. Well, do what you enjoy, for sure. I was thinking maybe it could have a hinged tail section instead of the nose section, or that placing the hinge behind the cockpit part as a separate part would probably work.

Edited by theonegalen
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29 minutes ago, Sebforce116 said:

Nice to see I'm not the only one who would like a Guppy

The damn thing looks like a Kerbal design.  You see it flying, but your brain tells you there's no way it should, no matter how many times you've seen it.

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I wish I could say the same @razark, but, I can see it flying, ish, ok not really but. Well, it looks aerodynamic, more than the Space Shuttle, I think.

If anything a Guppy would be quite useful I would imagine. (Basically, It'll be fun to fly and work with :D)

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Hi!

I have a bug report: The tail rotors don't seem to work. If you disable all reaction wheels you'll notice that the tail rotors don't produce any torque. You can see the "collective" field in the info box react to the yaw input, you can see the blade angle change, you can hear torque-producing sounds, but they don't actually work. The fuel delivery overlay shows that the fuel should reach the control rotor. Tried both K73-S and KV2-117A. This is with 16.0 and KSP 1.3.0.1804.

And yet another bug: If you attach a new control rotor, the steering response is set to 30, but as soon as you touch the value, it snaps to 15 and you can't set it higher than that.

Cheers!

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Something is wrong with tweakscale patch for rotors.
I had troubles with my helis, and most of them use upscaled version of rotors, i quickly found out by testing that size of rotor doesnt affect how much power it generates at all.
My helicopter with rotor at scale of 150% had problems lifting, would barelly lift off (and spin out of control soon >_>), at 50% it lifts even slightly better.
yaHdhgx.jpg

 

On 9.06.2017 at 10:06 PM, TMasterson5 said:

@blackheart612 tweakscale patch updated, sorry for the delay

works incorrectly for rotors, atleast for me. Size has 0 effect on thrust.

Edited by Vladokapuh
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Can I make a suggestion? I think many people could use it.

Your flaps are awesome, but it's still difficult to make realistic or, more importantly aesthetic aircraft with swept wings because flaps on airliners are angled.

primary.jpg

flaps.jpg

While theoretically we could use the rotate tool, that wouldn't change the hinge axis.

So here's my proposal:

Make another two slotted flap, same scale, but this time, the trailing slat should be split in half diagonally so that there is no continuation of it to carry over to the next flap.

Next, add a single slot FAT-455 colored flap, also at an angle, to make a set of angles.

For the other single-slots, just add angled ones.

Don't mean to be pushy, and I know it seems like a lot, but it would be sooo helpful.

(P.S.: Could you consider expanding the FAT-455 family?)

 

Thanks!

EDIT: I know that the whole wing is usually at an angle. My issue is with a smooth seam between flaps and ailerons

Edited by EVA_Reentry
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On 6/8/2017 at 11:28 PM, blackheart612 said:

@StevenRS11 It works exactly as you say. It's how FS implemented it and as far as I know, there's no limiting the collective pitch when in hover mode.

@TMasterson5 They are powerful. Some parts are just faulty as it was very experimental. But the Beluga is very powerful. The Gemini is alright but I might buff it even more. Only the Hippo is probably the most faulty of them all.

@theonegalen I'm hyping myself up for now, I'm running out of easy ideas cause I'm lazy at the moment. But there's a big chance that the guppy's cargo bay "cockpit" is impossible due to the fact that the IVA is most likely not movable when the cockpit moves, as well as you can't attach anything such as gears on that part, else it would not move.
Anyway, I want to move on to one or a few Mk3 parts and Size 3 as well, but I'm trying to find more motivation right now. Still lazy like I said. I also want to keep on improving the IVAs.

You can definitely move IVAs along with the external part, but I haven't tried IVA with props, though I suspect you can do thhat too. It would take a custom plugin.

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KaskAp4.png

This cockpit is great for my low-g lander. Does it void the warranty to take it to space? Anyway, there's one part I'm really missing that I'd really like to have: an inline airlock so that my kerbals don't have to depressurize the cockpit every time they want to leave the ship. Something like the Mk I Passenger Door, except with a hatch instead of just a door, and it wouldn't need to be as long. Like the inline airlock from KPBS, but for planes and landers. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would have use for such a part...?

Edited by ruiluth
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Would you provide patches to include FARControllableSurface into the following parts?

  • AirplanePlus/Parts/Aero/elevonhalf/part/hlfSrf
  • AirplanePlus/Parts/Aero/roundfin/part/roundwinglet
  • AirplanePlus/Parts/Aero/smallwings/elevon2b/elevon2b

I would much appreciate that.

Reason:

Edited by Gordon Dry
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@Gordon Dry I worked on some of that a couple weeks ago. Let me see if I can dig it up.

 

EDIT: Here you go. It's actually just about everything except the slats and slotted flaps, which I had no idea how to do, since they don't just hinge, but have their own animation. A lot of this is guesswork/approximation, but it seemed to work. :)

 

//FAR Compatibility by theoneGalen


//FAT-T3R Aeroplane Main Wing
@PART[bigwing]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 2.48
		MidChordSweep = -4.16
		b_2 = 11.060831
		TaperRatio = 0.5871914171
	}
}

//FATwings 
@PART[fatwing0]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 1
		MidChordSweep = 0
		b_2 = 3.5
		TaperRatio = 1
	}
}

@PART[fatwing1]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 3.5
		MidChordSweep = 0
		b_2 = 1
		TaperRatio = 1
	}
}

@PART[fatwing2]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 0.5
		MidChordSweep = 8
		b_2 = 3.5
		TaperRatio = 1
	}
}

@PART[fatwing3]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 1.75
		MidChordSweep = 36.75
		b_2 = 1
		TaperRatio = 0
	}
}

@PART[fatwing4]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 3.5
		MidChordSweep = 0
		b_2 = 0.5
		TaperRatio = 1
	}
}

@PART[fatwing5]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 1.75
		MidChordSweep = 40
		b_2 = 0.5
		TaperRatio = 0
	}
}

@PART[fatwing6]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 0.25
		MidChordSweep = -4.1
		b_2 = 3.5
		TaperRatio = 0
	}
}

//Small APP Wings
@PART[smallwingConnector1]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 1.14
		MidChordSweep = 0
		b_2 = 0.96
		TaperRatio = 1
	}
}

@PART[smallwingConnector2]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 1.87
		MidChordSweep = 0
		b_2 = 0.67
		TaperRatio = 1
	}
}

@PART[smallwingConnector3]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 0.67
		MidChordSweep = 0
		b_2 = 1.87
		TaperRatio = 1
	}
}

@PART[smallwingConnector4]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 0.71
		MidChordSweep = -7
		b_2 = 1.87
		TaperRatio = .48
	}
}

@PART[smallwingConnector5]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 0.34
		MidChordSweep = 7
		b_2 = 1.87
		TaperRatio = 0
	}
}

@PART[smallwingConnector6]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 0.935
		MidChordSweep = 38
		b_2 = 0.68
		TaperRatio = 0
	}
}

@PART[smallwingConnectortip]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
		MAC = 0.935
		MidChordSweep = 36.91
		b_2 = 0.58
		TaperRatio = 0.3568965517
	}
}

//CONTROL SURFACES

//Round-Deluxe Winglet
@PART[roundwinglet]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceRange = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceArea = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleControlSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARControllableSurface
		MAC = 0.98
		MidChordSweep = 11.14
		maxdeflect = 20
		b_2 = 1.36
		TaperRatio = 0.661
		ctrlSurfFrac = 0.45
        transformName = obj_ctrlSrf
	}
}

@PART[elevon2b]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceRange = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceArea = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleControlSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARControllableSurface
		MAC = 0.75
		MidChordSweep = 0
		maxdeflect = 20
		b_2 = 1.825
        nonSideAttach = 1
		TaperRatio = 0
		ctrlSurfFrac = 1
        transformName = ctrlSrf
	}
}

@PART[hlfSrf]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceRange = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceArea = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleControlSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARControllableSurface
		MAC = 0.525
		MidChordSweep = 0
		maxdeflect = 20
		b_2 = 0.9125
        nonSideAttach = 1
		TaperRatio = 0
		ctrlSurfFrac = 1
        transformName = elevon
	}
}

 

Edited by theonegalen
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