Devnote Tuesday: We’re back!

[Cornholio]

3 minutes ago, Foxster said:

So, I'm to be sympathetic to others whose issues I don't share but they are not required to be sympathetic to my desires?

No, but you should be concerned that continuing the current trend of new features instead of overwhelming stability might place you in the burning population some time in the future.

[Gaarst]

3 minutes ago, Foxster said:

So, I'm to be sympathetic to others whose issues I don't share but they are not required to be sympathetic to my desires?

I too want more features.

But I believe that major issues should be fixed first. So do I want it.

[spacehorse]

Hmmm, looks like a difficult Situation.

Because some People have big issues and some other have no big Problems.

I hope the Squad Team can continue with the work and bring you all satisfied as much as possible.

Only hope the console versions get not the priority one before the other points are fixed.

From my personally view I see a lot of improvements already (in especially the 64 bit version), so I am sure the team is on the right way.

 

[drhay53]

Ok let me just put this out there. I've been playing games for 30 years. I've been using the internet practically since it existed, at least in the public form.

In every game I've ever played that had a place to discuss things on the internet, the back and forth about bugs has turned vitriolic and caused people to get very angry with each other. There is no such thing as bug free software. Bugs are a fact of life. If you don't learn to deal with it, you can't be a gamer.

The fact is, SQUAD has a small team and a complex game. Yes, the wheels are broken right now. Yes, my game sometimes goes an hour where I can't go into the VAB for more than 2 minutes without crashing, and then mysteriously it just starts working fine. Yes, I have a space station which when I dock the last piece to it, zooms off a million meters in 1 second and then rips apart due to some insane rotational kinetic energy which sends the whole thing flying off into a gajillion pieces at millions of meters per second.

The one thing I've learned on the internet and gaming all of these years is that constructive criticism is the only thing that works. You can get mad and vent on the internet all you want but it will never (or very, very rarely) cause anything to get fixed.

All you can do is take the time to submit bug reports when the time commitment is tolerable for you, and try to keep the conversation calm and civil even when someone is really, really ticking you off. Just ignore the inflammatory language and respond to their content, not their tone.

I've had my fair share of griping about devs over the years, and even recently in a game that I really want to love but the devs are taking it in a terrible direction (not KSP, but I won't name names). But just try to keep perspective. Bugs are inevitable, they take a ton of time to fix, and things get prioritized in a way that us gamers may vehemently disagree with, and the best way for us to have an impact is to do as much work as we can on our end to provide information and feedback in a way that isn't insulting to all of the time these people pour into something that I'm sure they all care very deeply about.

*steps down from the pulpit sheepishly*

[Spaceception]

Welcome back SQUAD!!

Also, some of you guys must have some  bad computers (Which means the crashes probably are due to your computers, not SQUAD), because I'm running 1.1.2 on a 2 year old Acer Aspire, with a busted battery that has to be constantly charged or it'll turn off immediately, and the absolute minimum requirements with low res (That's how bad it is), and I can build and fly spacecraft capable of getting 10 Kerbal's to Duna.

@Red Iron Crown Is right, this version is perfectly playable, let SQUAD take their time with these bugfixes, otherwise you guys will be complaining about how bad 1.1.3 is as well.

Also, treasure the bugs, otherwise, Danny won't have anything to do

Edited May 25, 2016 by Spaceception
I (Think) i made it less imflammatory

[m4v]

8 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

Also, some of you guys must have some baaaad computers (Which means the crashes are due to your crappy computers, not SQUAD)

Now this is inflammatory and rubbish.

[Spaceception]

6 minutes ago, m4v said:

Now this is inflammatory and rubbish.

I think I made a less inflammatory edit to that part.

And you don't have anything to say about the second chunk?

Edited May 25, 2016 by Spaceception

[drhay53]

 

11 minutes ago, m4v said:

Now this is inflammatory and rubbish.

 

5 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

I think I made a less inflammatory edit to that part.

And you don't have anything to say about the second chunk?

just because you aren't having problems with your 2 yr old computer doesn't mean a ton of other people aren't. This is another age-old internet-ism. "Well I'm not having problems so I'm going to belittle the problems that all of these other people are having".

I personally have a PC that runs most modern games at or near max settings, and I crash in the VAB regularly and I have space stations that fly off and disassemble themselves. I highly doubt it's because my pc is bad.

editing to add: I'm not complaining about the game, though. I still play it all the time, I just work around the bugs as best I can. I just wanted to point out that it's disrespectful to a lot of people to say "the game works fine for me so all of you must be too cheap to buy a better computer", which is effectively exactly what you said.

Edited May 25, 2016 by drhay53

[p1t1o]

13 minutes ago, m4v said:

Now this is inflammatory and rubbish.

So's this.

To be fair, "rubbish" might be a poor term, but the nature of PCs (having infinite hardware/software combinations) *is* a factor.

[drhay53]

The truth is that the definition of 'playable' is very different for each person as well. Personally, it's a big stressor that any space station I build seems to be at risk of spontaneously ripping itself into a million pieces on a kerbol escape trajectory. It's not yet unplayable for me, but I fully admit that the 1.0.x series of patches got unplayable for me and I left for many months.

This could certainly be a function of the mods that I prefer to play with, and may not even be a SQUAD issue. I'm still trying to determine the cause. But I spent literally 5 days of playing time designing and launching the pieces of this station. And every time I connected the final piece in a certain way, the station immediately went absolutely bonkers and blew itself apart. Eventually I literally just rotated the last module around and connected it the other way.... and it waited about 5 minutes and then still did it. I'm fully expecting to one day try to look for the station and find that it was taken by the Kraken.

But anyway, this is a side story simply to point out that some people may call this situation unplayable, and who am I to tell them that they're wrong?

[Green Baron]

The discussion leaves reality behind. It's just logically impossible that we all have badly installed computers. And from what i read some of the people here are developers (for me it's just a hobby) or admins (i did something like that long ago). I consider my systems relatively clean and capable for the jobs they have to do (server, development, gaming, whatever). The two gaming comps (a laptop and a desktop, upper medium range i'd say with i7, 16gb, nvidia graphics, one running debian 8, one mint 17) have all the appropriate libraries installed and do perfectly with f. e. 1.0.5. Moreover i try not to have too much software installed which i don't know what it's for.

Believe me, i know how to run a computer. My first one was a sinclair zx81.

:-)

Edited May 25, 2016 by Green Baron

[Perringo]

Hello friends! I think I have found the solution: No more dev notes. Just stop them. No more soontms, no more hypes, no more what we are doing now, no more what we will do next, no more moars. I guess the dev-notes could have been a good idea when the game was starting and there was a little community, to inform the people about the game’s development, form the community and give a little publicity. Nowadays, in my opinion, they are not only useless but counterproductive.

How did knowing who’s taking a vacation or how long it would be, help in any way Squad or the community? What benefit brings to know someone is working in this and some other in that?

I came to this game in 1.0.4, of course not knowing anything about Squad, who works where or whose finger is broken. I just bought a game, played it and loved it. After a while I started reading the forums and found out a new version was coming soon. (I hadn’t learned the special language used in here yet). So I left aside the big campaign I was playing and waited… (hype, prerelease, patch, patch, patch…..) Was that January, February? Actually I’m still exploring the moons in my new 1.1.2 career.

Now after a dev-notes release it’s funny to see people just trying to translate and read between lines what they really mean, because experience has taught them that if a naïve reader only reads the dev-notes and take them literally he will be lead to frustration and disappointment. To me they sound like political / marketing language: correct but empty.

We use thousand of products every day, each of them have a development team behind working hard to improve their product just like you. I don’t need to know if the fisherman who fished my food has problems with the boat or if the engineer who maintains the bridge went to Acapulco in vacation. I just need my fish to be fresh and the bridge to don’t fall when I pass through it. So my friendly suggestion (which I know not many people will support but, hey, I’m weird) is to stop the communication, keep on working, fix the bugs, keep in mind the suggestions of the community, and just let your work speak for you.

No one plays the game because you are very friendly or communicative, it’s because people likes the game. If it gets better we will play more and recommend it to our friends. If it gets worse we will stop playing and not talk about it. For me, the lessons I’ve learned in this past months are: not to read the dev-notes and wait veeeery long before downloading a new version of the game.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Perringo

[MaxPeck]

3 hours ago, Sirad said:

What would you do if you want to sell the Game to more Customers.

1st: Adding new content

OR

2nd:Bugfixing.

Until its not reputational scorched ground, choose.

Were it me, I wouldn't release until I had a finished product.  Then I wouldn't have to choose.  If I did have to choose, I think bugfixing should always come first until your current version if feature complete, and that you shouldn't even think about new features until the current release is stable for the majority of users on all platforms.  Critics have been VERY nice to KSP so far, but all it's going to take is one or two reviewers talking about an amateurish game that crashes frequently and has gameplay issues and your new customer base will drop off sharply.  Word of mouth on KSP is good... so far, but judging from these threads, patience is starting to wear thin for a lot of people.

[Zoidos]

20 hours ago, KasperVld said:

I scratched my arm trying to replace the headlight bulb on my motorbike

May this be the worst biking-related accident you ever have.

Sincerely,

A fellow biker

[p1t1o]

26 minutes ago, Perringo said:

No more dev notes.

This doesn't sound ridiculous. I don't know if it would bring benefit, or not, but sometimes reducing communicative bandwidth can be a good thing. Could be temporary, or partial, or more complex, or simple.

Tough call.

 

18 minutes ago, JJE64 said:

...judging from these threads, patience is starting to wear thin for a lot of people.

Hopefully (it would represent the best outcome for all) its just the few loudest ones, its hard to call from internet fora.

[MaxPeck]

2 hours ago, Terwin said:

Wall of Text in response to an earlier Wall of Text

We are at war with Eastasia.  We've always been at war with Eastasia.  

There are no bugs.  There have never been any bugs.  KSP 1.1.2 runs smoothly and without any issues.  People who report or complain about their issues are disloyal.  KSP 1.1.3 will be amazing and bring incredible new features and an all new and improved gaming experience.  

Very good, Winston.

[tater]

The landing legs exploding upon impact with a kerbal has exactly nothing to do with my computer. That happening ever, under any circumstances is a show-stopper. I have not had crashes, and I can load up mods, the problem seems to be entirely part related.

[HoloYolo]

18 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Welcome back! I hope you're all well rested and all had great respective times on vacation.

The most substantive thing in the post was this:

They didn't actually use the word "bug" but it seems pretty obvious that priority #1 is - at least - the worst of the current 1.1.2 bugs.

Alright then. What I meant that it wasn't 100% bug fixing but I guess that'll have to do.

[pandaman]

Ok.  I scan read most of this 'debate'..  here's my take on it. ..

Some of the issues (wheels etc in particular) cannot be fixed properly until the correct version of unity is ready and the game can be transferred to it, that timescale is not in Squad's control.   The best we can hope for is 'band aids' that reduce those particular problems until such time as a cure can be implemented (1.2 presumably). 

Other issues that are not dependent on unity being updated can be fixed sooner (1.1.3), whilst also implementing what band aids they can at the same time.  So what benefit is there in not doing 1.1.3 and just waiting for 1.2 when 1.1.3 will go a long way to improving things for many players much sooner?

I havent expeeienced the CTDs many are reporting, but I am having trouble with the landing gear and wheels, like many others, and I want it fixed quickly too.  It's limiting my plans a bit, but I'm just avoiding doing stuff that depends on them working properly until I'm confident that it won't wreck hours of effort.  But I know a proper fix can't be done until the correct version of unity is ready.

[MaxPeck]

I just went back and re-read some of this thread.  Good lord.  Talk about peeing in someone's cheerios.  What the hell is wrong with us?  Let's put a stop to the ever-escalating hyperbolic arguing over just about everything (and that includes me).

 

Welcome back devs.  Do what you do.  Glad to have you back, hope you can get a handle on things.  Thanks for checking in, and for the updates.  Looking forward to more of your best work in the weeks ahead.

Edited May 25, 2016 by JJE64
changed mod edit to more PG-13 language

[CrashTestDanny]

Welcome back!

Danny

[Gojira1000]

This thread needs Yakkity Sax as a sound-track

[Tr1gg3r]

Throws some toys out me pram.!

[Velve666]

Welcome back, trust you are all refreshed and well rested.

As you can see the community needs you, to fix things. 

[regex]

Just stopped by to poast this.