cephalo

Landing gear can't wait for 1.2, needs bandaid.

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2 minutes ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

Sure planes can take off from dirt runways, and yes taildraggers work great for that. It's just the 1st tier runway might as well be made of concrete. Without soft body physics, it simply does not behave like it's made of dirt. It's just bumpy and has a texture to make it look like dirt. It's completely silly to have a runway that is less flat than the surrounding grass. I'd buy it if the dirt was flat and everything had more friction, but it's just ridiculous for the runway to be harder to land on than the outside area. It's pointless to compare it to real life.  

Also, when did I say anything about bigger planes?

Doesn't matter if it behaves like it's made of dirt, you can take off from it,it's pretty easy in fact, and you don't have to use the grass as a crutch.

Edited by Alshain

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Still, what's the point of having a runway bumpier than the surrounding area? It doesn't even make sense... Anyways sorry this is off topic :P

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Stock gears for all my aircrafts: Steering disable on rear gears, gears all tweaked to support aircraft weight, braking always harder on rear gears, friction setting 1.5 on rear 1.0 on front, damper all 0.65. Rear gears all placed around COG

All flights using Atmospheric autopilot mod to limit g load, but flying manually

Eve aircraft 20T working fine:

992251screenshot155.png

138T SSTO Mark IV, after landing, no problem at all

208431screenshot160.png

456 SSTO supertanker Mark IV after landing: notice that the center rear gears seems to disappear in the ground: I think they have to be moved rearwards....or they support to much weight and have to be reinforced or damper must be more than 0.65. I must try different settings.

But no wobble, no explosion on landing or take off, no dancing around when launched

972564screenshot168.png

995795screenshot170.png

 

 

Edited by gilflo

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I like the bumpy runway...

I honestly don't think I would have gotten a plane off the ground due to the crappy landing gear "bugs" if I didn't have those bumps to launch off of in my early career's first planes. I'm following all the old rules for building a plane, and as far as I can tell the only thing that's changed is the landing gear. Makes me think there's something actually wrong with them; regardless of other people's opinion. I hope SQUAD isn't done with their fiddling.

Edited by Mister Kerman

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On 6/5/2016 at 7:03 AM, cephalo said:

I think in order to create an enjoyable experience for the new player, you have to get them to the Mun at least before frustrating them to this degree. Remember the flight controls (WASD) are horrendously imprecise. If a -2.5ms vertical speed is too much for landing, tapping the S key is going to send you flying back up at +5 ms. You have to go back and forth to get a good vertical speed for landing.

I would also like to point out that the game was not like this before. You could abuse the landing gear, and it was fun, and the game was a huge success.

correlation≠causation.

Does anyone honestly belive that janky landing gear is a major reason for KSP's success?

 

Also, if you are flying up at 5m/s vertical if you tap s, that is a problem with one of two things: Plane design or control sensitivity. 

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On 7/11/2016 at 10:15 PM, Alshain said:

Doesn't matter if it behaves like it's made of dirt, you can take off from it,it's pretty easy in fact, and you don't have to use the grass as a crutch.

Aircraft fishtails on or off the runway at 30m/s, far less speed than what's needed for takeoff. No amount of added stability will change it. Also the thing begins to turn off the runway without me even touching the controls and I rebuilt it 5 times thinking that I messed something up with mirrored parts. Even WITH the concrete runway, the aircraft game is unplayable with only T4 aviation.

The Wright Flyer had better gear than what you can get with the first aircraft parts in this game.

Anyway yeah, the runway being rougher than the fields around it, that's just silly. And probably lacking common sense. Of the private airports I've seen that don't have concrete, the runways are grass, not dirt. Dirt held in place by grass is more resistant to being torn apart by weather and... planes.

On 7/9/2016 at 9:24 AM, Corona688 said:

This behaves very differently on different computers, I think.  Certainly my laptop behaves far worse than my desktop in respect to KSP crashes and general misbehavior.  I'd only be wild-guessing as to why, but if you want a wild guess, interaction of unity and video drivers?  Laptop has cheap internal video, while the desktop has a decent-ish card.

Please tell me the game isn't using the GPU to calculate physics.

Edited by vger

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18 minutes ago, vger said:

Please tell me the game isn't using the GPU to calculate physics.

It isn't.

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12 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

It isn't.

A dev mentioned the "orbit decay bug" being caused by a new interaction of Unity and PhysX, though?

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1 minute ago, Corona688 said:

A dev mentioned the "orbit decay bug" being caused by a new interaction of Unity and PhysX, though?

Possibly. PhysX doesn't run on the GPU in KSP, or any Unity game.

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Just now managed to make an aircraft that can't even move. At engine start, it travels forward a meter and then stops, and won't even be dragged at full engine power. It's as if the brakes are on, except they're not.

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You forgot the screenshots, saves, mod list, and bug tracker entry, without those you're not helping the devs just yelling at them.

Edited by Corona688

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11 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

You forgot the screenshots, saves, mod list, and bug tracker entry, without those you're not helping the devs just yelling at them.

Not sure if that was directed at me. I just hit a point where I started to keep adding lift to see just how much wing was needed to get a craft into the air before the gear caused an epic fail. I think I hatched a baby superkraken.

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1 hour ago, vger said:

Aircraft fishtails on or off the runway at 30m/s, far less speed than what's needed for takeoff. No amount of added stability will change it. Also the thing begins to turn off the runway without me even touching the controls and I rebuilt it 5 times thinking that I messed something up with mirrored parts. Even WITH the concrete runway, the aircraft game is unplayable with only T4 aviation.

That has nothing to do with the runway, that's a bug in 1.1.  I play 1.0.5 and the dirt runway is fine, it didn't change in 1.1 so the dirt runway is still fine.

I don't care for the dirt runway either, I would rather see it flattened and had some kind of material based traction where grass is slipperier than dirt is slipperier than concrete method of difficulty.  BUT, I still say in it's current state the runway does work fine and you don't have to use the grass as a crutch.

Edited by Alshain

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3 hours ago, Alshain said:

That has nothing to do with the runway, that's a bug in 1.1.  I play 1.0.5 and the dirt runway is fine, it didn't change in 1.1 so the dirt runway is still fine.

Oh, I know, I'm referring to the latest build though, and 1.1.3 was hailed as the ultimate bug killer patch. I didn't have this much trouble with aircraft before. Or at least my planes blew up AFTER being in the air for a few seconds. What I'm seeing now is more like drunken drag racing. All the fins in the world wont make it drive straight.

Edited by vger

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Was about to reinstall.. after seeing this, I'll wait. Playing with a lack of technical frustration is key to enjoyment for me. On a side note, can we somehow use the new sliders to make them like 1.0.5 wheels? I'd be fine with that and would be able to play (enjoyably) then.. lol

Edited by Talavar

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1 hour ago, Talavar said:

Was about to reinstall.. after seeing this, I'll wait. Playing with a lack of technical frustration is key to enjoyment for me. On a side note, can we somehow use the new sliders to make them like 1.0.5 wheels? I'd be fine with that and would be able to play (enjoyably) then.. lol

No. If this were the case I don't think there would be nearly so many complaints, but the new wheels behave completely differently from the 1.0.5 wheels thanks to the Unity upgrade. It's like getting a mobile phone upgrade and finding out afterwards that one of your favourite apps is really buggy on your new handset - there's nothing you can do about it until you get another upgrade, but at least in the meanwhile you have a newer phone that's still as good or better at everything else except that one app. 1.1.3 is better than 1.0.5 at nearly everything except wheels, but wheels are probably going to remain busted until we get 1.2, because the issue isn't with KSP/the phone app, it's with Unity/the new phone.

 

Edited by The_Rocketeer

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9 hours ago, vger said:

Aircraft fishtails on or off the runway at 30m/s, far less speed than what's needed for takeoff. No amount of added stability will change it.

 

You've built it wrong, then. I'd like to see some screenshots of this thing.

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5 minutes ago, foamyesque said:

You've built it wrong, then. I'd like to see some screenshots of this thing.

It's a known issue, it's nothing to do with construction.

 

1 minute ago, Mrtortoise23 said:

There was a mod .. LYGearfixer something like that. Was a manual install not on ckan

That was probably @GoSlash27's module manager patch.

 

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2 hours ago, Alshain said:

@GoSlash27It's a known issue, it's nothing to do with construction.

 

It's an issue that is entirely possible to avoid with good construction.

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7 minutes ago, foamyesque said:

It's an issue that is entirely possible to avoid with good construction.

No, it's not.  It's an completely unavoidable issue for many players.  Just because you aren't having the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Edited by Alshain

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10 hours ago, foamyesque said:

It's an issue that is entirely possible to avoid with good construction.

 

10 hours ago, Alshain said:

No, it's not.  It's an completely unavoidable issue for many players.  Just because you aren't having the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

There's insufficient evidence for either claim here. You'd need to get two people (one with the issue, one without) taking turns on one machine/one install to be able to prove or disprove it.

But from my own experience, I have found some of my aircraft were impossible to keep stable, and others that were much better. When I've tried to design out the quirks, generally I've met me resounding success.

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@Arsonide I apologize for the summoning but do you know if the leg vibrations will be fixed by the unity upgrade? It is very noticeable and causes all sorts of issues as well as the moving on the surface bug.

2 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

There's insufficient evidence for either claim here

Face-palm..

 It is well documented and acknowledged by the devs man. If you have those issues it is due to the bugged and broken wheels/legs.

 If you don't have issues you just got lucky in the particular arrangement of parts you made but it is there for everyone.

 

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It isn't luck. There's consistent rules to how landing gear behave; that's why I want screenshots.

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