SpacedCowboy

That's enough of that

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Just messin' around in the VAB, and all of the sudden the game just crashes for the third time in the last two days, for no reason. Done with that. Yeah Squad, you've got my few dollars, but nothing more. 

Ok folks, that's enough of this, ( apology here ) At the time of last crash I was very mmh, agitated. I spouted off uncontrolled. Please all, accept my apology. I am in no way, " rage quitting"! Not intending any drama here, Mods, please end this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SpacedCowboy
apology

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2 hours ago, SpacedCowboy said:

Just messin' around in the VAB, and all of the sudden the game just crashes for the third time in the last two days, for no reason. Done with that. Yeah Squad, you've got my few dollars, but nothing more.

I understand your frustration, but try and help to pinpoint the issue by giving as much info as you can to squad and others with the same issue...

What part where you placing on to what?

How many parts on the vessel?

Did it crash at the same point, or when doing the same or similar thing each time?

What mods (if any) are you using.

What are your system specs?

... Any info like this can help identify if there is a pattern or common set of circumstances that prompt the crash.  Apparently 'random' events can often not be - I've had a few cases at work where we got random crashes to our CAD software, but we realised there was a specific set of actions that when done in a certain order guaranteed a crash.  We were then able to pass that on to the software company who could then find the issue and fix it. This kind of apparently pointless detail can help enormously.

I'm not suggesting you spend all your time trying to prompt a crash rather than playing (unless you want to), but that if you are able to be a bit more aware or take mental notes of what you are doing leading up to when it crashes it may point to a clue of some sort.

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For the love of Jeb, I am sick of people moaning about how "broken" 1.1 is. They took a game built around a specific engine, moved it to a new engine that is having development issues of its own, patched a ton of old, annoying bugs, and vastly improved the performance. Yeah, there are issues. The game has had memory leaks since day one. KSP is huge, and it works well for the most part. I understand why you're upset, but you don't have to blast it all over the Internet! If you can do better, fix the bugs yourself!

KSP has issues. We know this. Squad knows this. Please stop repeating the same complaints. Instead, try doing something productive, like filing a bug report on the tracker SQUAD set up to help them isolate problems like this. Crashes are annoying, but remember that you are not alone in having them, and complaining on the forum does nothing to solve it!

And now I'm ranting. Ugh.

Please understand that I am not mad at you, just at the general surge in useless complaining on the forum recently. I mean no ill will towards you, but I disagree with your response to this situation and I encourage you to try doing something helpful instead. No issue has ever been solved by whining about it.

Goodnight!

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I do sympathise, especially to new players who are attempting to get into it and are not aware of the nature of the game, specifically how far it has come and the "indie" nature of the developers, it must be frustrating to expect a game as polished as "big name" new releases.

However, 3 crashes in 2 days? Whats that like 10-15 minutes downtime out of how many hours? Not that much to write home about, so-called "big-name" releases can easily be worse than that. Total War: Warhammer has crashed on me at least that many times.

Many KSP players would kill for a crash rate that low.

Yeah, the VAB crashes are starting to grate on me, especially when you get one not a single minute into gametime, but I mod the ever-living-heck out of my build so I can hardly complain, I suspect I am still getting out-of-RAM crashes.

Mo' address space, Mo' problems :D

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2 hours ago, kmMango said:

patched a ton of old, annoying bugs

Care to list the "ton of old, annoying bugs"? I see more serious new bugs introduced than serious old bugs fixed. Fixing minor irritations while introducing hard crashes is not progress.

2 hours ago, kmMango said:

If you can do better, fix the bugs yourself!

Give me the KSP and Unity3D sources, and I'll gladly have a crack at it. I may or may not get anywhere, but as it stands I simply do not have the tools or information to even try to fix this myself.
What's the point in saying "go fix it yourself" if you cannot provide me access to the code that needs fixing?

2 hours ago, kmMango said:

Instead, try doing something productive, like filing a bug report on the tracker SQUAD set up to help them isolate problems like this.

The bugs have been filed, the crash logs uploaded. I have offered more and been told "I already have hundreds of these, what we need is reproduction steps"... which is an utterly pointless request for a crash that appears to be completely random. Do you think I haven't been trying to repro this?
I have recompiled mono to get even more debugging info, and currently have over 80 detailed stack traces. As the devs apparently don't want them, what "something useful" do you suggest I do now?

2 hours ago, kmMango said:

Please understand that I am not mad at you, just at the general surge in useless complaining on the forum recently.

A general surge that exactly parallels the surge in random, unexplained crashes. As I would expect.

 

25 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

However, 3 crashes in 2 days? Whats that like 10-15 minutes downtime out of how many hours?

I see at least one crash per play (or ~1 crash per 2 hours). This is in stark contrast to 1.0.5, where I have seen exactly zero crashes, ever. In fact, the same could be said of pretty much every release up until 1.1.x.
I will admit this bi-hourly rate has decreased recently... as the game is too infuriating to play, so I am not.

25 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

"big-name" releases can easily be worse than that.

And those "big name" releases either get fixed in a timely fashion or un-installed. If support cannot offer a solution that's the end of the discussion, and any intent to purchase.

25 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Mo' address space, Mo' problems

Uh huh. Coming from a totally stable x64 build (on Linux) to this crashy mess, I'd say: Same address space, more problems.

 

Edited by steve_v

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14 minutes ago, steve_v said:

And those "big name" releases either get fixed in a timely fashion or un-installed. If support cannot offer a solution that's the end of the discussion, and any intent to purchase.

I'm not really sure that holds true, speaking in general. But we all have different limits.

Edited by p1t1o

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Just now, p1t1o said:

I'm not really sure that holds true. But we all have different limits.

Indeed we do. Speaking only for myself: If the devs / support team brush me off with anything like "No idea why this is happening / third-party problem / won't fix." in response to a critical issue like crashing to desktop, I will respond with "Can't play, won't pay. Expect no future purchases, positive reviews etc. either."
Again, I'm still here because I know that the game can be awesome when it's working properly, and I bought it long ago.
If I had purchased KSP at 1.1 launch I would have filed for a refund and left a scathing review some time ago.

Compare and contrast a recent "big name" release I'm thinking of: A serious (CTD) bug is discovered after launch, it only affects a very small number of players but it's game-breaking.
Response: Personal contact from the dev team requesting logs and saves, regular updates posted, and the very next patch fixes the issue... All within 2 weeks of first-report.

We've already had 2 KSP "hotfixes" that haven't solved this problem, and I see no reason to believe that 1.1.3 will either. ~6 weeks later, Squad, you are too slow.

If the response was "System too old", "update graphics drivers", "try changing setting x", hell, anything constructive, I'd give it a chance.
What it sounds like is: "We have no idea what's going on, and don't know how to fix our (yes, "our" - as in chosen by Squad) game engine". This inspires no faith whatsoever that these problems will be resolved, and makes me think Squad is simply waiting for someone else to fix their product.

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5 minutes ago, steve_v said:

<snip>

Though I don't share your position, I don't really have anything to argue against any of that, except to say that my point was that Squad are not a "big-name" developer so  expecting the same from them seems moot, to me. I might have confused the matter suggesting that "big name" titles sometimes perform worse than what SpacedCowboy is reporting.

Anyways, we can at least both hope that KSP stability gets the improvements it deserves :)

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1 hour ago, p1t1o said:

However, 3 crashes in 2 days? Whats that like 10-15 minutes downtime out of how many hours? Not that much to write home about, so-called "big-name" releases can easily be worse than that. Total War: Warhammer has crashed on me at least that many times.

Many KSP players would kill for a crash rate that low.

Spot the obsessive who has no job! :P

If you only get to play for 30 minutes a day then 3 crashes in that time is a pain in the cheeks.

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1 minute ago, StarStryder said:

Spot the obsessive who has no job! :P

If you only get to play for 30 minutes a day then 3 crashes in that time is a pain in the cheeks.

Fully employed, thank you :D

If it was 3 crashes in 60 mins, yes that would be more frustrating - it could easily be 3 crashes in 20 hours if SpacedCowboy is a student on holiday binging on KSP, for example. I chose to treat it as a middle ground of a couple hours a day.

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3 hours ago, kmMango said:

For the love of Jeb, I am sick of people moaning about how "broken" 1.1 is. They took a game built around a specific engine, moved it to a new engine that is having development issues of its own, patched a ton of old, annoying bugs, and vastly improved the performance. Yeah, there are issues. The game has had memory leaks since day one. KSP is huge, and it works well for the most part. I understand why you're upset, but you don't have to blast it all over the Internet! If you can do better, fix the bugs yourself!

KSP has issues. We know this. Squad knows this. Please stop repeating the same complaints. Instead, try doing something productive, like filing a bug report on the tracker SQUAD set up to help them isolate problems like this. Crashes are annoying, but remember that you are not alone in having them, and complaining on the forum does nothing to solve it!

And now I'm ranting. Ugh.

Please understand that I am not mad at you, just at the general surge in useless complaining on the forum recently. I mean no ill will towards you, but I disagree with your response to this situation and I encourage you to try doing something helpful instead. No issue has ever been solved by whining about it.

Goodnight!

And no issue has been solved by complaining that someone's ranting.

Yeah, this thread's pretty unhelpful (not to mention ranty, though I see where he's coming from) but neither is your response. You can't dismiss all complaints because "KSP 1.1 was complex hurr durr". I get that it is a huge update and issues are inevitable, and sometimes posts like these are annoying, but your post (unlike some of the other posts here) is unhelpful to the thread.

PS: The "If you can do better, fix the bugs yourself" excuse isn't valid at all. And it's getting old.

7 hours ago, ag3nt108 said:

another Doom post, how original.

Oh look, another short complaint post about the complaint. How original.

As for the OP, do you have a crash log? Were you running 32-bit? What mods did you have installed? It might have been a loss of memory.

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Oh wow, this is getting meta :confused:

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Don't worry guys, Squad is aware of the issue with stability and are working on it.

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Strange, I haven't had a single crash in 1.1. Though funny stuff does happen from time to time, like parts of the user interface go missing in the vab.

 

I run the 64bit version launched from Steam, and only have the KER mod installed.

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Played for 8 hours straight on my day off yesterday. Never had a single crash.

I realize that's no consolation to those of you who are having frequent stability issues, just pointing out that it's not happening across the board for everyone which makes it harder for Squad to pin down what exactly is causing it.

My recommendation is to use less mods, restart the game every once and awhile, and save often!

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I recently got burned out of playing KSP too much (I'll be back in a few days or a week, I'm sure)... I tried playing XCOM 2012 yesterday... that game has more crashes and bugs than KSP... and that's most certainly not an indie developer.

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I've played over 100 hours since 1.1 and my game has crashed 2 or 3 times total.  Are you using mods?  I don't disagree that there are issues that need fixed but is it really worthy coming to forums to complain about?  Save often, reload the game ... continue.

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...Excel* locks up irrecoverably more than KSP CTDs for me...

Although what I like about KSP's development is if a serious, reproducible, issue happens, the devs still are working on it--we're not stuck with 1.1.2 forever (unless something goes terribly, terribly wrong). So if it's unplayable, but the previous version isn't, make bug reports, roll on back to 1.0.5, and check in with later releases to see if the issue you're having has been resolved Is it perfect? No. I do understand if it makes you not want to even deal with KSP, though. And no, the game didn't crash "for no reason"; there's a reason, just it might not be evident.

*Although I think it's old-work-computer-hardware related, but still

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I've read enough of these recently that I wanted to pass along an experience I had with 1.1.2, in hopes that it might help someone else.

I, too, noticed some frustrating stability issues, which included a number of crashes mid-launch on the second launch of a science career playthrough.  After enough of them, I decided to hold off and wait until the next fix came out.  (Because a fix would always come out, given enough time and patience.)  After checking the forums and seeing others with similar issues, I decided not to add to the pile.

However, a few days ago while looking at my desktop shortcut, I found that I had been using the KSP executable as opposed to the KSP_x64 executable.  I made a fresh install, tossed on my usual modset (to have as equivalent a setup as possible to when I had the stability issues), and made sure to use the x64 version of the executable.

Since making the switch, I have yet to have a major problem.  Only one crash in several days of playing, and I attribute it to the fact that I left the game sitting on pause for a good hour or so.

I don't know if this will help everyone having issues, but it might be something worth checking if you're running into problems with crashing.
 

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I'm sorry I snapped earlier.

1.1 is not perfect, far from it. Squad rushed it out because they backed themselves into a corner by preparing for a release date, rather than working until it was done. Until they fix it, though, this is what we have. Not playing doesn't harm squad in any way. They already have your money. The only person you're hurting by giving up KSP is yourself. The fact that so many people who complain about it are still on the forum tells me that they still like KSP. 

Play it, or don't. It makes no difference to the rest of us. Going online to vent, while understandable, does nothing but spew negativity onto others. 

I have enough negativity of my own. I really like KSP, and I consider it, and this community, a very positive thing. Please try not to nega-spew if you can.

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Pff what is this? Pleb complaining about 3 crashes a week? Ahahah, don't make me laugh!

Try crashing 3 times pr HOUR every time you want to play a game. That was average for me back before I got my computer upgraded and ready for 2017.

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Heck, my game crashed 4 times yesterday! If you don't want to play after 3 measly crashes a week, you probably shouldn't be playing anyway. 

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Put me down in the "three times a day" camp.  But it is still more stable than the "stable" 64-bit Linux 1.0.5 (I'm guessing nvidia drivers were the issue).

The bugs that have been getting me: launch clamp disappearing from staging.  Yes, I'd see that I was missing bits of rocket, only to discover (on re-launch) that the launch clamp held on to them during launch.  The launch clamp simply didn't have a staging option.

Re-fire (unstable) on reload.  It turns out that during quickload, the rocket would load non-fired and then fire inflight.  No idea why, but my rocket couldn't take it.  Also not sure if this is standard practice, but I can't remember a rocket that would destroy itself on quickload before.

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