CKAN/Steam Workshop

[Aperture Science Employee]

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Edited June 8, 2016 by Aperture Science Employee

[T-Pilot395]

Steam doesn't allow for the uploading of Dynamic Link Libraries (.dll) files that quite a number of complex mods use due to safety reasons.

[Red Iron Crown]

Mostly because there is a significant portion of the KSP userbase that isn't using Steam. Workshop works best for Steam exclusives.

[lukeoftheaura]

If you need a mod manager, CKAN is good.

[Sereneti]

Because
1) steam dont allow to upload .dll files.
2) steam arnt the only way to buy KSP.
3) squad have afaik a agrement with course.

[Aperture Science Employee]

1 hour ago, kerbingamer376 said:

If you need a mod manager, CKAN is good.

The reason I don't like CKAN is that when I install the same mods that I installed manually, it didn't work.

[r4pt0r]

2 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Mostly because there is a significant portion of the KSP userbase that isn't using Steam. Workshop works best for Steam exclusives.

I begrudgingly accept that, but would like to know if the curse integration will ever come to fruition. 

 

[Red Iron Crown]

4 minutes ago, r4pt0r said:

I begrudgingly accept that, but would like to know if the curse integration will ever come to fruition. 

IMO the Curse people waited too long on that. CKAN is relatively refined and handles mods from many different hosts, the Curse client would likely only handle mods hosted on Curse itself. If they had the client ready back when the move was made I think adoption would have been higher as CKAN was less developed then, now it's too late as many mods have moved to other hosts and CKAN handles the auto-install/auto-update thing pretty well.

Don't get me wrong, it would still be great for the Curse client to support KSP, I just think it won't make much difference at this point, certainly not as much as it would have back then.

[Aperture Science Employee]

48 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

IMO the Curse people waited too long on that. CKAN is relatively refined and handles mods from many different hosts, the Curse client would likely only handle mods hosted on Curse itself. If they had the client ready back when the move was made I think adoption would have been higher as CKAN was less developed then, now it's too late as many mods have moved to other hosts and CKAN handles the auto-install/auto-update thing pretty well.

Don't get me wrong, it would still be great for the Curse client to support KSP, I just think it won't make much difference at this point, certainly not as much as it would have back then.

Why do CKAN mods break more than manual mods(the same mods). And then why not make an in game mod menu that would work with the CKAN devs?

Edited June 7, 2016 by Aperture Science Employee

[Red Iron Crown]

4 minutes ago, Aperture Science Employee said:

Why do curse mods break more than manual mods(the same mods).

They don't afaik. The host doesn't really make any difference for mod stability, IME.

Quote

And then why not make an in game mod menu that would work with the CKAN devs?

By the time you're in game it's too late, mod management has to happen before loading.

[Aperture Science Employee]

Just now, Red Iron Crown said:

They don't afaik. The host doesn't really make any difference for mod stability, IME.

By the time you're in game it's too late, mod management has to happen before loading.

Can't you just make like an "internal reboot"? I'm not saying in game, more like main menu.

[Red Iron Crown]

4 minutes ago, Aperture Science Employee said:

Can't you just make like an "internal reboot"? I'm not saying in game, more like main menu.

And sit through the loading process again? No, thanks.

At the main menu is already too late, the mods have already been loaded.

[Aperture Science Employee]

1 minute ago, Red Iron Crown said:

And sit through the loading process again? No, thanks.

At the main menu is already too late, the mods have already been loaded.

Okay, I just wanted something that was approved by SQUAD that isn't Curse, which IMO, is a curse on modding. I believe that KSP and CKAN devs could make a mod manager thats official.

 

EDIT: I just think that Curse doesn't care like CKAN Devs do.

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by Aperture Science Employee

[Jarin]

1 hour ago, Red Iron Crown said:

IMO the Curse people waited too long on that. CKAN is relatively refined and handles mods from many different hosts, the Curse client would likely only handle mods hosted on Curse itself. If they had the client ready back when the move was made I think adoption would have been higher as CKAN was less developed then, now it's too late as many mods have moved to other hosts and CKAN handles the auto-install/auto-update thing pretty well.

Don't get me wrong, it would still be great for the Curse client to support KSP, I just think it won't make much difference at this point, certainly not as much as it would have back then.

I thought there was some internal conflict about CKAN in the modding community, with some mod authors disliking/opposing it. Or is that just RoverDude?

[Red Iron Crown]

6 minutes ago, Jarin said:

I thought there was some internal conflict about CKAN in the modding community, with some mod authors disliking/opposing it. 

There is some drama around CKAN, afaict it's mostly about indexing mods where the author would prefer not to indexed. Small potatoes compared to the drama around Curse from what I can tell.

[Jarin]

2 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Small potatoes compared to the drama around Curse from what I can tell.

I figure that goes without saying. 

Eh, whatever. I'm content to manually manage my mods. It's a lot easier to do in this game than some others.

[ZooNamedGames]

3 hours ago, Aperture Science Employee said:

Can't you just make like an "internal reboot"? I'm not saying in game, more like main menu.

Well yes, you can go into the debug menu and under debug click "reload all" but it's like sitting through the entire initial loading process again. But it will reload any added/changed mods.

[Alshain]

7 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

IMO the Curse people waited too long on that. CKAN is relatively refined and handles mods from many different hosts, the Curse client would likely only handle mods hosted on Curse itself. If they had the client ready back when the move was made I think adoption would have been higher as CKAN was less developed then, now it's too late as many mods have moved to other hosts and CKAN handles the auto-install/auto-update thing pretty well.

Don't get me wrong, it would still be great for the Curse client to support KSP, I just think it won't make much difference at this point, certainly not as much as it would have back then.

Except when it doesn't.   CKAN is a piece of garbage not worth the bandwidth it is downloaded with for one simple fact... Mod Authors do not support it.  Yes, their mods are on it, but in many cases, they didn't put it there and they don't support it.  If something goes wrong, there is nothing to do about it.  Don't go complaining to the mod author.  If it's out of date (which it often is), nothing you can do about it.  Seriously people, you are better off manually installing mods than using CKAN.  This is all my opinion of course, but if you want to use it, just know you are on your own entirely.

Both Steam Workshop or the Curse Client would not have this problem.  The mod author would decide if they wanted to distribute using that method and they could keep it up to date and ensure it works.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Alshain

[Red Iron Crown]

Just now, Alshain said:

Mod Authors do not support it.

That is an inaccurate blanket statement. Many mod authors maintain their own CKAN metadata to ensure that their CKAN-using users get updates in a timely fashion, and some prefer that users install via CKAN as it usually reduces installation errors. Certainly there are mod authors who are uninterested in CKAN or even actively hostile to it, but it is not fair to make a blanket statement that mod authors don't support CKAN.

Personally, I keep several modded installs, some managed manually, some with CKAN. Both approaches have their merits and faults, I can understand anyone preferring one over the other.

[DMagic]

@ZooNamedGames Reloading the database does not reload mods, it just reloads config files, parts and textures (well, it does sort of reload assemblies, but the actual .dll file is in use, and can't be altered).

@Alshain So all mod developers don't support CKAN, or just a few? How many are required to support it before it becomes valuable?

Given the amount of downloads that come from CKAN (it's obvious to track the difference between an update that is reflected in CKAN's database and one that isn't) I would say that plenty of people find it extremely useful.

Edited June 7, 2016 by DMagic

[Alshain]

4 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

That is an inaccurate blanket statement. Many mod authors maintain their own CKAN metadata to ensure that their CKAN-using users get updates in a timely fashion, and some prefer that users install via CKAN as it usually reduces installation errors. Certainly there are mod authors who are uninterested in CKAN or even actively hostile to it, but it is not fair to make a blanket statement that mod authors don't support CKAN.

Personally, I keep several modded installs, some managed manually, some with CKAN. Both approaches have their merits and faults, I can understand anyone preferring one over the other.

It's not a blanket statement at all.  If one mod author doesn't support it then there are mod authors that do not support it.  I didn't say all mod authors don't support it.  My mod is on it, I didn't put it there (in fact I told spacedock NOT to put it there).  If you have a problem with my mod, and you installed it with CKAN, you are S.O.L., I will not help you, for the simple fact I can't guarantee what it's pushing to your computer.

4 minutes ago, DMagic said:

 

@Alshain So all mod developers don't support CKAN, or just a few? How many are required to support it before it becomes valuable?

No, not all.  But many.  As for who finds it valuable, that's in the eye of the beholder.  As I said, it's my opinion.  You don't have to agree, but that's not going to stop me from stating it either.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Alshain

[JPLRepo]

2 minutes ago, Alshain said:

It's not a blanket statement at all.  If one mod author doesn't support it then there are mod authors that do not support it.  I didn't say all mod authors don't support it.  My mod is on it, I didn't put it there (in fact I told spacedock NOT to put it there).  If you have a problem with my mod, and you installed it with CKAN, you are S.O.L., I will not help you, for the simple fact I can't guarantee what it's pushing to your computer.

Here-in lies the issue and why "some" mod authors don't support CKAN (including myself). I have no idea what CKAN is pushing to your computer.

[Red Iron Crown]

2 minutes ago, Alshain said:

It's not a blanket statement at all.  If one mod author doesn't support it then there are mod authors that do not support it.  I didn't say all mod authors don't support it.

You literally did. If I were to say "Canadians are idiots"* that statement doesn't mean "at least one Canadian is an idiot" or "some Canadians are idiots", it would be a blanket statement about all Canadians. No reasonable English speaker would interpret it otherwise.

*Obviously false statement, used as an example. I'm a Canadian (and possibly an idiot if you ask some).

4 minutes ago, JPLRepo said:

Here-in lies the issue and why "some" mod authors don't support CKAN (including myself). I have no idea what CKAN is pushing to your computer.

You could maintain the metadata yourself if that is a concern for you, or if your mod is restrictively licensed the CKAN people will deindex it if you ask them. (My biggest criticism of CKAN is they don't offer the same courtesy to permissively licensed mods, which has the negative side effect of encouraging restrictive licensing.)

[Alshain]

Just now, Red Iron Crown said:

No reasonable English speaker would interpret it otherwise.

That is an inaccurate blanket statement.  I'm a native English speaker and I would interpret it that way but I'm in a very different region than you and English has many dialects.  You shouldn't assume non-Canadians are not reasonable English speakers just because they don't speak your version of it.

[JPLRepo]

3 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

<snip>

You could maintain the metadata yourself if that is a concern for you, or if your mod is restrictively licensed the CKAN people will deindex it if you ask them. (My biggest criticism of CKAN is they don't offer the same courtesy to permissively licensed mods, which has the negative side effect of encouraging restrictive licensing.)

and therein lies the problem. I do not want to, and in some cases, cannot change licenses to be restrictive (even though i want to ), for this exact reason.