Returning player needs advice

[DarkGravity]

Previously I made it to Mun and Minimus and orbited the Sun. That was a while ago

Now I want to start over in career mode. I don't want to do science missions on the Kerbin campus again, so I want to start with some science right off the bat. How much science should I start with to match the campus missions?

Also, I use Kerbal Engineer Redux to see the dV of the rockets I build, but when I start KSP a little box pops up that says "Kerbal Engineer Redux 1.0 Unsupported KSP version... please use 1.0.2." But my KSP version is 1.1.2.1260 X64 according to the data on the lower right corner. I looked at the KER page and none of their versions are 1.0.2 as far as I can tell. I tried downloading their latest version, but I think I need to move that somewhere, and I'm not sure where. Steam keeps my KSP up to date automatically.

Any advice would be appreciated. I feel a little lost.

Edited June 12, 2016 by DarkGravity
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[Snark]

Moving to Gameplay Questions.

In general, virtually all mods involving plug-in code from before KSP 1.1 will need updated versions to work post-1.1; it was a huge overhaul to KSP.

Here's a download link for KER that a bit of searching turned up:

http://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/kerbal-engineer-redux

 

[bewing]

The fully-upgraded KSC campus has 33 biomes (at various times). If you are playing on the "normal" difficulty setting, each biome generates 55.7 science points as near as I can tell. So, that comes to 1838 science points. And if you change the difficulty level, just multiply that by your science multiplier.

The starting KSC campus has 14 biomes, for 780 science points.

(That doesn't count the possibility of getting "EVA report while flying over SPH Main Building" or those other nearly impossible ones -- but I haven't been able to get one of those reports since version 1.0.4. -- And you can use the Alt Alt F12 menu to give yourself science during the game when you upgrade the proper buildings, if you want.)

 

Beyond that, since you said you felt a little lost when upgrading to 1.1 (very understandable) -- I created this thread specifically to try to make people feel a little less lost when upgrading:

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by bewing

[Superfluous J]

Note that 780 science assumes you milk that puppy dry. If you just hit it with the common early experiments (EVA flying and standing, goo, jr, and thermometer, and maybe a surface sample) and only do one per place (as I do. Doing extra experiments is extra work after all) it'll be far less.

I personally would decide on what is the bare minimum I need to reach orbit and/or Mun or Minmus (for me that's maybe the first 2 tiers including "Start" for orbit, and the next one for Mun or Minmus) and just take that amount of science.

Edited June 12, 2016 by 5thHorseman

[bewing]

Yes, the 780 number assumes doing every krew- and device-based experiment multiple times, including surface samples and gravioli detection. I think it's reasonable to assume that you do repeated experiments, though. Any rational space program would be thorough, efficient, and parsimonious about gathering free science points. Note that doing surface samples, variometry, and seismic scans requires a T2 R&D dept (which would get you a 15th biome), and doing gravioli detection would require a T3 R&D dept (which would get you 7 more biomes).

If you just assume a crew report, eva report standing, goo, jr, and temp -- that would be 22.2 science per biome initially. Then as you get new science instruments and the ability to do surface samples, you could do them once, see how much they are worth, multiply by 13, and use the Alt Alt F12 menu to add that new number to your total each time.

Edited June 12, 2016 by bewing

[Chakat Firepaw]

If you don't want to do the KSP science farming:  Simply don't do it, it's not like you actually need it.

Doing the first pair of contracts, (launch & science from Kerbin), gets you enough science to go suborbital.

A suborbital flight should get you enough to go orbital.

An orbital flight should get you enough to have options on what to do next, a high-orbit probe if nothing else.

[kBob]

I just built a simple rover from early parts (using the steerable and fixed gears you get in aviation) then I load it up with sci equipment and zip around the base to scoop up a bunch of early science (to get to aviation I've just grabbed the sci right at the launch pad plus what you get fulfilling the early contracts and crew reports, goo etc. while flying) and as soon as you can upgrade the astronaut complex so you can do surface samples (so for a while there after you get that EVA after every landing to get those samples): if you do that aviation comes pretty quickly.  Zipping around in a primitive rover is a fun way to gather up the science.

[DarkGravity]

6 hours ago, kBob said:

I just built a simple rover from early parts (using the steerable and fixed gears you get in aviation) then I load it up with sci equipment and zip around the base to scoop up a bunch of early science (to get to aviation I've just grabbed the sci right at the launch pad plus what you get fulfilling the early contracts and crew reports, goo etc. while flying) and as soon as you can upgrade the astronaut complex so you can do surface samples (so for a while there after you get that EVA after every landing to get those samples): if you do that aviation comes pretty quickly.  Zipping around in a primitive rover is a fun way to gather up the science.

I agree, but I did that on 2 previous play throughs already. Thanks for all the responses. I decided to start with 250 science on custom settings slightly harder than medium while still allowing myself the much needed (for me) REVERT ability! This time I WILL make it to another planet, not just moons!

Man! I have forgotten so much, and there is so much that is new!

Edited June 13, 2016 by DarkGravity

[kBob]

1 hour ago, DarkGravity said:

I agree, but I did that on 2 previous play throughs already. Thanks for all the responses. I decided to start with 250 science on custom settings slightly harder than medium while still allowing myself the much needed (for me) REVERT ability! This time I WILL make it to another planet, not just moons!

Man! I have forgotten so much, and there is so much that is new!

Yeah I just came back after nearly two years, I was surprised at how much I'd forgotten, though relearning was quicker;and having real re-entry heat and learning to cope with it was a lot fun.  I will say starting a new career I find bumping that science up from 0 doesn't seem to really make much difference for me so I just start at 0 (I've restarted 4 careers because I keep thinking..."oh if I'd just done it this way I'd be better off...hasn't made a difference and this time I'm just sticking with it").

[DarkGravity]

I just give myself some small amount of extra science to calm my need to build a rover and do all the science on campus (and then do it again after I unlock each new science instrument) after already bored myself silly with that in previous play throughs.

[kBob]

I actually didn't bother with the sci around the space center except that right on the launch pad this time.  Though later, just for fun, I turned a science lab into a rover and scooped up a bit and put it in to process, but it would take like a hundred years for it to produce anything significant even with a two star lab geek...er scientist. 

But it sounds like they may be starting to address some of science grind in future releases, there are a lot of good ideas on how to do this in this forum.

Anyway I'm finding KSP even more addictive than before, I just have to be careful not to use it too much as I don't want to have to quit due to pain like I did before: and I have my computer setup better, though I broke my 58" 4k monitor and had to go back to a 43" 1080p set while waiting for a new 55" 4k set --with Dolby Vision HDR--I'm a bit of videophile --to come onto the market but the angle I have to use it this "small" monitor at isn't nearly as good).  I'm so glad they've enhanced the UI to scale should be great with 4k, but it will probably make KSP so addictive I'll forget to breath.

Edited June 13, 2016 by kBob

[Streetwind]

I personally never need a single point of science from KSC to progress... and I only take other Kerbin surface science because my capsule happens to come down there, not because I make an effort to go there. Honestly, Kerbin surface science is neither necessary nor an efficient use of your time - making a beeline for space is where it's at IMHO. It's easy enough to reach orbit with nothing but the 10 points of science that first contract gives you for putting a lone pod on the pad and recovering with a crew report.

However, if you want to start with a leg up, I recommend the first five tech nodes as a good compromise. Basic and General Rocketry, Engineering 101, Stability and Survivability. That should require 63 science and give you a large amount of useful starter parts. Or if you started with an even 100 science, you could probably also unlock the Terrier in addition to all this before you even launch your first rocket.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Streetwind

[Montag]

Other than getting the science from the runway and launch pad, I did not get any from KSC until I needed that 0.4 science to get over the hump to research something.  You may want to keep that in reserve for just such an occasion.

[kBob]

I was testing a new rover so I put a two star scientist in it and some science equipment so that I could scoop up some sci while seeing how fast I could go and how hard I could break...er brake.  I managed to get more than 320 science points to fill out my tree.  So that was a nice little bonus.  This was made even easier with this mod which causes a green blinking light on the science parts when you happen into a biome that you haven't scooped up the points from already.  This was actually more useful than the early rover science.

[Snark]

I generally take the beeline-to-space approach.  However, I often find, in earlyish career, that I'll be just shy of having the points for unlocking a tech node that's a big gateway to something juicy.  So in those cases I'll just doodle around KSC long enough to pick up a dozen points or so to put me over the top for that node.

I generally don't make any attempt to mine it dry.

[bewing]

I decided that I wanted to know the exact answer to the OPs original question, so I actually went and did it, and calculated it to two decimal places.

The reason that I did this is because I think a real space program would grab every last smidgen of all the free science points they could (assuming that real space programs actually dealt with science points). And you have 4 Kerbonauts, and 3 are sitting in the Astronaut Complex most of the time playing KSP on their laptops, unless you send them out to grab that science. (And I get bored grinding out all the KSP biome points myself, and I think I'd like to skip it, too.)

So, assuming that you unlock the bottom of the tech tree all the way up to the barometer, you should give yourself 420.32 science points on normal mode.

And this means that all the science has been taken (up to the barometer) for KSP, grasslands, shores, and tundra -- and EVA reports have been taken splashed at shores and water. So you can't ever take those ones again.

During this process, you are also supposed to buy the radial parachute, the service bay, and the small battery (and maybe the stayputnik for aesthetics -- besides the science equipment), because those were needed to gather the science.

 

Edited June 16, 2016 by bewing

[FullMetalMachinist]

16 hours ago, Snark said:

I generally take the beeline-to-space approach.  However, I often find, in earlyish career, that I'll be just shy of having the points for unlocking a tech node that's a big gateway to something juicy.  So in those cases I'll just doodle around KSC long enough to pick up a dozen points or so to put me over the top for that node.

I generally don't make any attempt to mine it dry.

I do almost this exact thing. Not only do I beeline to space, I beeline to other planets. 

In early career, after orbit and landing on Mun/Minmus, I'm sending unmanned one-way probes to Duna and Eve. 

And not only do I not science mine the KSC, I don't even biome hop on Minmus, even though it's very easy to do so. I would rather spend that time designing a novel probe where I had to get creative with the rocket design because I was limited on parts available. 

Even though it's pretty trivial to complete the tech tree without leaving Kerbin's SOI, I've never done it, because with the full tech tree unlocked it's easy to go anywhere else, and my designs tend towards a common style with all parts available. I'd prefer it to be a little challenging, and be forced to come up with unique ways to get a mission done. 

[wumpus]

On 6/12/2016 at 2:29 PM, kBob said:

 Zipping around in a primitive rover is a fun way to gather up the science.

Only do this if you feel this to be true.  I've ground science on KSC too many times to be willing to go at it again.  Note that while a maxed out (multiple slow missions?) is 1838, or 3-4 minmus biomes.  Note that as some point your "multi-landing" probe will want a refill, so how your docking skills matter.

Speaking of docking, if you really want to max out the science, put Jeb and Bob in separate landercans (Jeb for the fancy flying and Bob for science restore) and store all science in duplicate.  Have a landercan attached to your "space station" (read flying fueltank) and leave a copy there before you go home.  Bring back a mobile science lab (preferably with a crew of trained up scientists, see xp and leveling if they are new to you) and let them unlock every last bit of science.

2 hours ago, FullMetalMachinist said:

I do almost this exact thing. Not only do I beeline to space, I beeline to other planets. 

A lot of this depends on if you insist on waiting for launch windows (and I'd assume you would have to with a beeline.  Over 3000 delta-v seems next to impossible right after sending probes to Mun and Minmus, but I know I've done it at the 1500 level).  I keep looking at the time to launch window and thinking "I could unlock a ton of science nearby".  A probe to Duna would be more fun, but having the science lab up there makes waiting for launch windows seem "productive".