blorgon

Posting Modded Crafts in the Craft Exchange Sub?

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So, I want to show off a craft I built of which I'm particularly proud. It requires mods, and some modded parts from mods. I have a folder with the required mods and modded parts, along with the craft file and a READ ME. I'm wondering what the ethics are of including the necessary mods with the craft file. Can I do this, or is it generally frowned upon? I feel like it might be a bit of a deterrent for some people if they know they'll have to install 5 or 10 mods (depending on how many, if any, they're missing).

And of course, there are parts from mods that I've modified myself to fit the project. These are very minor modifications, but they are modifications of other mod authors' work. They're still properly credited in the .cfgs, but I'm just a little unsure of how best to go about releasing the craft without upsetting said authors.

Also, as an aside, is there anyway we could get a separate exchange subthread specifically dedicated to modded crafts? There's a sticky thread, but nobody uses it and it's massively outdated, and the subthread is almost completely full of stock crafts. I don't really want to get buried. I get that most people probably prefer to stick to stock crafts to avoid the very issues I'm writing this post about, but I feel like maybe more modded crafts would make it to the exchange if there was some better documentation on how best to approach sharing them.

Forgive me if I'm missing something somewhere in the forum where this has been discussed!

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You could just ask the mod authors if you could include their mods in the download :D

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48 minutes ago, CAKE99 said:

You could just ask the mod authors if you could include their mods in the download :D

UGH THAT'S SO MUCH WORK :sticktongue:

On a more serious note, some of the authors haven't been active here for a long time. What should I do in that case?

Edited by blorgon

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Just now, blorgon said:

UGH THAT'S SO MUCH WORK.

On a more serious note, some of the authors haven't been active here for a long time. What should I do in that case?

What mods did you use?

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I use some modified FASA engines (removed the reflection plugins, so as to make them compatible with 1.1.2), a modified part from an old version of Near Future Construction (as well as new versions), NF Electrical, NF Solar, kOS, RPM, ASET and ALCOR props and parts, and the Mk1-2 IVA overhaul by @alexustas, who hasn't been on the forum in months other than a few random posts at the beginning of May. The FASA engines, old NF part, and Alexustas' mods are the things I was thinking of including in the download since the proper versions are either hard to find, or were modified specifically for this craft by me. A lot of the links in alexustas' threads are dead, and I didn't want to send any potential users of my craft on a wild goose chase having to find all the mods and piece them together correctly. There's also the Mk1-2 overhauled IVA that isn't even available anymore except in Chaka Monkey's mod pack, but again, I didn't want to force the user to download that just for the Mk1-2.

I'll hold off on releasing the craft until after I've messaged to mod authors, but again, I'm not sure what to do about alexustas.

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6 minutes ago, blorgon said:

I'll hold off on releasing the craft until after I've messaged to mod authors, but again, I'm not sure what to do about alexustas.

@alexustas was online 7 hours ago, try sending a PM.

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3 minutes ago, CAKE99 said:

@alexustas was online 7 hours ago, try sending a PM.

:0.0:

Whaaaa? I swear I just checked their profile, like... yesterday... and saw cobwebs. Maybe I was just so used to seeing it inactive, I didn't even notice they'd been online. Well I guess that makes things easier...

#embarrassed

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17 hours ago, blorgon said:

So, I want to show off a craft I built of which I'm particularly proud. It requires mods, and some modded parts from mods.

The spacecraft exchange is always happy to see any craft, however many mods it uses.  

17 hours ago, blorgon said:

I have a folder with the required mods and modded parts, along with the craft file and a READ ME. I'm wondering what the ethics are of including the necessary mods with the craft file. Can I do this, or is it generally frowned upon? I feel like it might be a bit of a deterrent for some people if they know they'll have to install 5 or 10 mods (depending on how many, if any, they're missing).

First off, a disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and any advice I give is to be taken at your own risk.

Now, here's what I think about redistributing mods.  
Legally: all mods on the KSP forums are required to have a license.  If this license says something like "all rights reserved," or a license (look up the license for the mod in question!) that does not allow "redistribution" then you will not be able to include it in your download.  It's probably not even worth asking for special permission in these cases.  However, if you have not modified the mod, a link to the mod's forum thread/hosting site page, without redistributing the mod, will be perfectly fine.
If the license is more permissive, like a GPL or copyleft license, you should (depending on the license) be able to redistribute/modify and redistribute the mod, along with some kind of credit and/or specific license for the redistributed copy legally.  However, if I were a modder, I would prefer to be asked if I was okay with that.  

Most people don't mod their mods, and so only include links or even just names of required mods.

Yes, modded craft do tend to get less attention than stock ones.  However, don't let that stop you!  

17 hours ago, blorgon said:

And of course, there are parts from mods that I've modified myself to fit the project. These are very minor modifications, but they are modifications of other mod authors' work. They're still properly credited in the .cfgs, but I'm just a little unsure of how best to go about releasing the craft without upsetting said authors.

See above about redistribution with modifications.

If one of the modded mods does not allow redistribution with modifications, then you might consider making a patch mod, that will change the mod in question when both the patch and the mod are installed.  A couple of things to keep in mind: I do not know whether licenses can prohibit this!  Asking the modder/someone who knows more about licenses/patches than me is a good idea.  I think the patches are called Module Manager Patches.

17 hours ago, blorgon said:

Also, as an aside, is there anyway we could get a separate exchange subthread specifically dedicated to modded crafts? There's a sticky thread, but nobody uses it and it's massively outdated, and the subthread is almost completely full of stock crafts. I don't really want to get buried. I get that most people probably prefer to stick to stock crafts to avoid the very issues I'm writing this post about, but I feel like maybe more modded crafts would make it to the exchange if there was some better documentation on how best to approach sharing them.

Back in the old forum software days, there were colored tags that you could add to the start of your thread title.  They were "[STOCK CRAFT]" and "[MOD CRAFT]" this is a good way to make it obvious what kind of craft yours is.

People tend to leave whether their craft are modded or stock off more since the software change.  However, there are still some modded craft around:

 

(The above one even has modded mods!)

17 hours ago, blorgon said:

Forgive me if I'm missing something somewhere in the forum where this has been discussed!

@Columbia made a nice guide, but it's more for stock craft:

Oh, and you should take a look at https://kerbalx.com/ it's a free KSP craft hosting site, and it has mod detection, so your viewers see a list of the required mods for the craft.  It doesn't work with modded mods though.

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I have a dilemma...

I am trying to find a mod that will help me with a project that is now on hold:

Originally, I was using the mod, Ballistanks available through SpaceDock. Yes, it is fairly easy to use, but the problem is that it is incredibly slow and at times, shifts the COM in unpredictable ways (empty, I have the Ballistanks placed at the exact COM for this sub, so the boat should submerge equally). I am using ore tanks to level her out and to keep her keel level.

So, I need help finding mods that could be used to submerge this vessel.

I've played around with BDArmory and yes, she can be made to launch small missiles from the aft compartments. I'm still unsure how to create ability for her to have forward and aft torpedo bays, but that will eventually come. Once I get all the bugs worked out, I will upload her on KerbalX.

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6 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

I have a dilemma...

Looks like you've posted in the wrong thread! :D Maybe you were meaning to post your own thread?

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9 hours ago, blorgon said:

Looks like you've posted in the wrong thread! :D Maybe you were meaning to post your own thread?

Yeah, for some reason, I thought this was the "works in progress thread" as that is the one I remember clicking on last.  Guess that this happens when one simply does not consume as much coffee as is required for clear thinking...

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2 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

Yeah, for some reason, I thought this was the "works in progress thread" as that is the one I remember clicking on last.  Guess that this happens when one simply does not consume as much coffee as is required for clear thinking...

lol. Yeah, I started to write a real reply, then I realized what had happened. Moar coffee for me, too.

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There is no need to redistribute any mods you have used on your craft. Just list out all mods you have used, anyone interested to try your craft will be able to find all those mods without much trouble.

As for personal customization of some mods, try to avoid that, if it is realy needed for craft design, just put info what you have changed in what config file or what MM patch you have created for personal usage. Again, anyone interested will be able to recreate your steps and change everything that is needed without violating anyone mod licence (in most cases).

For example, few months ago, I have edited config file for KAX kuey rotor, for personal usage. I added additional SAS torque on rotor engine, so it can actualy be controled like heli rotor. Not exactly "proper" solution, but it was enough for game purposes to make whole rotor actualy usable in game and have purpose. Later on, that modification is adopted(with small changes) by mod author and it is available now for everyone.

Point is, I doubt that anyone will be angry at you if you create personal modification of any mod, but avoid distributing such modification. Rather explain what you have did and reson behind it. Good idea will be to notify author of mod too, if modifications are justified, author of mod might want to include it in future mod releases.

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46 minutes ago, kcs123 said:

There is no need to redistribute any mods you have used on your craft. Just list out all mods you have used, anyone interested to try your craft will be able to find all those mods without much trouble.

As for personal customization of some mods, try to avoid that, if it is realy needed for craft design, just put info what you have changed in what config file or what MM patch you have created for personal usage. Again, anyone interested will be able to recreate your steps and change everything that is needed without violating anyone mod licence (in most cases).

For example, few months ago, I have edited config file for KAX kuey rotor, for personal usage. I added additional SAS torque on rotor engine, so it can actualy be controled like heli rotor. Not exactly "proper" solution, but it was enough for game purposes to make whole rotor actualy usable in game and have purpose. Later on, that modification is adopted(with small changes) by mod author and it is available now for everyone.

Point is, I doubt that anyone will be angry at you if you create personal modification of any mod, but avoid distributing such modification. Rather explain what you have did and reson behind it. Good idea will be to notify author of mod too, if modifications are justified, author of mod might want to include it in future mod releases.

See, most people probably already have most of these mods anyway, so that's not a big deal. But last I checked, the ALCOR and ASET stuff is scattered all over the internet and is a total pain to track down. That's what I want to include. As far as having people modify parts themselves, I feel like that would be a major deterrent for anybody thinking of trying the craft out. Firstly, nobody is going to want to do that, because it'd be a pain. Secondly, the part in question is from an older version of the mod, and it's a single part. Having people download an old mod just to try to find the part themselves, and then edit the .cfg is way more work than somebody should have to do just to be able to try a craft out. I've reached out to the author of the mod, so we'll see. But if it's a no-go, then I'm probably not going to bother, because I doubt people will want to go through all those steps.

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I would consider it a bit of hubris to think that people would set up an install with my mod set just to download my craft, especially if those mods aren't the standard versions. When I consider craft for download I look at which mods are used, if there are any I don't have then I don't download the craft (I think most people probably do the same, but that's a guess). 

My advice would be to just list your mods, and only share craft that use the canonical version of those mods, if you are interested in people actually downloading them.

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