[1.12.x] The Maritime Pack v0.1.19

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

Very cool well done I'll be stealing that for the LBP ugly carrier if you don't mind
 Any thoughts on arrestor cables?  the hook is the easy bit,  something I'm asked about all the time.

Oh and agreed about the new imgur album format I put in a bug rep as soon as i posted my first album

[Fengist]

Once you download it, I don't care what you kitbash my parts into.

Yep, working on the arresting gear now and, depending on whether I can make it visible from a distance, a meatball (FLOLS).

And you didn't notice but that's not the CVE carrier currently in the MP.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

1 minute ago, Fengist said:

And you didn't notice but that's not the CVE carrier currently in the MP.

I did i just took it for granted  that i wasn't the only mod maker to sneak in dev parts into screenshots

[Fengist]

3 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

I did i just took it for granted  that i wasn't the only mod maker to sneak in dev parts into screenshots

You're not.  It's still not going to be huge but this is the much delayed CVL.  It's basically twice the width of a CVE using the same theory as the catamarans.  This one will still take a good bit of skill to land on tho.  The bridge, which you can see in some of the pics, snaps onto the sides of hulls and is considerably taller than the CVE bridge.  So, you'll still need some narrow aircraft or... hummm... folding wings.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Fengist

[Matuchkin]

Is there any chance of realistic sized ship parts? Naval-themed parts, maybe?

In other notes, I am very excited to see you back and functioning. This has long been a go-to pack for any project that included ships, especially carrying freight. I cannot believe this is back, godspeed!

[Fengist]

13 hours ago, Matuchkin said:

Is there any chance of realistic sized ship parts? Naval-themed parts, maybe?

In other notes, I am very excited to see you back and functioning. This has long been a go-to pack for any project that included ships, especially carrying freight. I cannot believe this is back, godspeed!

Define realistic sized part?  Are you referring to anchors and such or are you bashing my tiny carrier?

 

In other notes, thanks.  Kinda fun to be back, I think.

Here's a pic from my 'play' install where I used Remote Tech.  This is a comm ship I have up a river about 1/4 the way around Kerbin from KSC.  You'll note some parts from LLL, KAX & I-Robotics.  This was also a test of the new fuel efficient engines.  I loaded up with 3000 LF and burned just over half that on the trip.  I started out running 4 engines and was making around 30 m/s.  I cut that down to 2 engines and the speed dropped to 22 m/s.  So, -8 m/s for half the fuel cost?  Sounded good. I ran the whole way at 22 m/s (warp 4 of course).  So, this type of fuel efficiency is what I was aiming for.  Something that still requires you to plan 'global' expeditions, but can still offer the range you'd tend to expect of RL cargo ships.

[Matuchkin]

4 hours ago, Fengist said:

And that's what I mean by realisticly-sized parts. In kerbalized terms, this is perfect, optimal. However, this would be vaporized if it encounters a realistically-scaled freighter. I have this held-up promise that I will do a certain, long-scaled sea mission in RSS (not saying which, by fear of someone else taking my place). However, I can only complete it now (finally, goddamit), since I managed to download the correct stuff for it and get a version of KSP that doesn't lag. Your parts are the best choice for this, except that it doesn't feel as great to do a cross-oceanic voyage in something the size of a small cruiser.

So thank you for your consideration.

[Fengist]

3 hours ago, Matuchkin said:

And that's what I mean by realisticly-sized parts. In kerbalized terms, this is perfect, optimal. However, this would be vaporized if it encounters a realistically-scaled freighter. I have this held-up promise that I will do a certain, long-scaled sea mission in RSS (not saying which, by fear of someone else taking my place). However, I can only complete it now (finally, goddamit), since I managed to download the correct stuff for it and get a version of KSP that doesn't lag. Your parts are the best choice for this, except that it doesn't feel as great to do a cross-oceanic voyage in something the size of a small cruiser.

So thank you for your consideration.

Ok, well, here's the problem.  These are boats in a space game.  You get Squad to build me a realistically sized SHIPYARD instead of an aircraft hangar, and I'll give you realistically sized boats.  Till then, what you see is what you get.  Now, if you want gigantic boats that fit guns for an enemy that doesn't exist, there's a mod for that too... if you want to use an unrealistically sized hangar extender. 

Now, if you're talking about small pleasure craft sized boats... I have to scratch my head in disbelief. Because if THAT's true, you're the only person using my mod who subscribes to the fact that bigger ISN'T better (a fact that I've been unsuccessful in convincing everyone of).

Of course there is this idea I briefly toyed with:

 

Now you will take note, that SPECK standing on the focs'le is a Kerbal.  When I put this thing in the water the first thing that popped into my head was... what the hell would you need something THIS large for?  And the idea got shelved.  I'm sure some of you could come up with a mostly valid reason but this thing could house a thousand Kerbals!  You know how many trips to the recruiting office that is????

Edited July 7, 2016 by Fengist

[Matuchkin]

1 hour ago, Fengist said:

I'm sure some of you could come up with a mostly valid reason but this thing could house a thousand Kerbals!  You know how many trips to the recruiting office that is????

Trust me, look at the Large Boat Parts Pack. They might look like massive parts, but a medium-sized model, such as the ones that are third, fourth, and fifth from the left of the first image, can use some rigging. As a result, I made several ships that could comfortably house a crew for such a voyage (I had sections for control, maintenance, operation of exploration vehicles, and some reserves for fanciness), and looked good while they were at it. What I'm trying to do there is add an element of voyage, getting myself a lot of space for modular exploration equipment and crew to pose for screenshots, as well as getting a sense of living space (i.e. I'm not cramming my kerbals into a small hab for a trans-oceanic voyage, I'm giving them a ship instead).

Of course, anything larger, and the "bigger isn't better" problem is run into. I use the larger ships for utility, such as when I need a good-looking, low part-count hub for vehicles (carriers) or cargo (cargo ships). The screenshot of the up-scaled cargo ship that you used falls into that category. What we need is larger superstructures to put on the ships. That way, we can add some detail.

I hope you agree with my views, thank you. Keep on goin'!

 

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

1 hour ago, Fengist said:

Ok, well, here's the problem.  These are boats in a space game.  You get Squad to build me a realistically sized SHIPYARD instead of an aircraft hangar, and I'll give you realistically sized boats.  Till then, what you see is what you get.  Now, if you want gigantic boats that fit guns for an enemy that doesn't exist, there's a mod for that too... if you want to use an unrealistically sized hangar extender. 

Now, if you're talking about small pleasure craft sized boats... I have to scratch my head in disbelief. Because if THAT's true, you're the only person using my mod who subscribes to the fact that bigger ISN'T better (a fact that I've been unsuccessful in convincing everyone of).

I have to agree with @Fengist here, when it comes to boats/ships bigger is not the way to go (yes even though i do maintain the LBP) Cram more and more goodies into and onto smaller hulls is the way forward (such as the neat catapult a post or two up the page), plus you can do one special thing with smaller vessels that you can't do with the monsters, and that being you can get more than one in a scene without the others being launched skyward.

I have yet to see one instance proved in KSP, in which a marine craft of many tens of thousands of tonnes is any more useful than a well sorted ship of a few hundred tonnes, i suppose it's ok for messing about and screenshot posing, but if you really want to go anywhere, do anything useful, or even explore the coastline anything over 60mtrs( imo ) is a waste of time.  He's also right that there are mods for that, interesting that Azimech paused dev on his real ships until things water wise improve.

[Matuchkin]

2 hours ago, Fengist said:

Now, if you're talking about small pleasure craft sized boats... I have to scratch my head in disbelief. Because if THAT's true, you're the only person using my mod who subscribes to the fact that bigger ISN'T better (a fact that I've been unsuccessful in convincing everyone of).

I would actually prefer small pleasure-craft over any other boat. As you said, bigger is not better in most cases. However, there's absolutely no feel to a massive voyage if it is done in a small boat.

I'd like you to think of this as an image of what I'm trying to get in any given long boat voyage (sans effects and computer-melting graphics):

[Fengist]

V0.1.7 Preview

Tug Boats!

Using that funky Klaw technology, our R&D Department has developed a TUG BOAT!  Not only does it grab other ships so you can move them around, it's the PERFECT place to put those goofed up wheels you keep breaking.

And, that's not all! To give the Tug a real job we're even going to throw in some hulls especially designed to work with it. Barges!  FREE! (just pay extra shipping and handling) And they're huge.  These 15 meter wide hulls will be wide enough to accommodate more fuel, more ore and more junk than you've ever put on a boat before.

So, what do you do when a tug boat can't push 1,700 tons of barge? MOAR TUGBOATS!

 

Reality? I developed this months ago before I went on hiatus.  I could never get the stoopid claw to work properly.  Well today @nli2work set me on the right path.  One thing I was doing wrong was setting the bow to the root part. Nli informed me, that was a known bug.  Once I got over that hurdle it was a matter of getting the transform and collider set up.  I even tested it on the new CVL (which I had sitting nearby for testing and which is coming in a later version). I grabbed it with a Tug and shoved it around sideways... forward and reverse.  So, testing is mostly complete now.  Hopefully, this weekend I'll have it packed up and ready to distribute.

And before the complaints begin... yes, the barge hulls will be ugly and the models rather crude.  But, like my first release of this pack, it's a start.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Fengist

[adsii1970]

Beautiful. Oh, and I have a few ships I've made with the mods. No, they are not "real scale" but they are useful and with a little creativity, posed for photos well...

 

 

The aft crane is fully functional and I have actually used it to recover capsules from the oceans of Kerbin.

The other craft are a bit smaller, but I basically use them for well - cruising around the oceans of Kerbin. Yes, that is a jet engine on top of the stack with thrust set really low, near something like 20, but it produces a nice smoke effect...

 

[Fengist]

@adsii1970 I like how you used the Planetary Base mod to create superstructure.  And I see you found a way around something I've been meaning to solve... working smoke stacks.  I'm not much into the gun side of things but they look nice.

Since I'm already here, I have the catapult working mostly to my satisfaction.  The arresting gear is coming more slowly because in order to test it... I have to be able to land on the freaking carrier (not easy even with a wider hull).  Since I have the catapult working tho, I'm toying with another idea I think I can get to work.

Imagine this if you will:

[adsii1970]

@Fengist:

Wow - working catapults? That would be a nifty thing to launch drones for survey missions. WIth the catapult and the crane I made, it would then be possible to launch a scansat outfitted drone and do a fly by survey, then recover, refuel... and maybe reload?

It took me a while to end up with superstructure that fit the bill. I didn't want to have to create it from scratch, but I wanted it to have the appearance that the Kerbals are really a frugal being - of they find something that works, figure out how many different ways that it can be used! I also have used that mod to create land rovers for Kerbin exploration.

Glad you like my solution to working smokestacks.  I think it looks great. Just takes a little tweaking.

Yeah, I don't know why I made them into warships; it is not that there are any hostile beings on KSP. I have always been fascinated by the battleships and destroyers of the second world war. In reality, that's the only reason they're armed.

[Fengist]

1 hour ago, adsii1970 said:

@Fengist:

Wow - working catapults? That would be a nifty thing to launch drones for survey missions. WIth the catapult and the crane I made, it would then be possible to launch a scansat outfitted drone and do a fly by survey, then recover, refuel... and maybe reload?

Well, launching I'm pretty sure I can come up with.  Reloading, that depends on your patience and how good you are with KAS I'm guessing.

Basically, it would have to work like this:  You build the aircraft with a special docking port on the underside.  You'd have to figure out how the nodes would work, but you could save it as an assembly.  Then, you build the ship and put the catapult on it.  I'll make it so you can put an Infernal Robotics rotor on it to spin it around.  It would have the other 'special' docking port on top of it.  When you're ready to launch, you'd have to 'undock' from the catapult, take command of the aircraft and... hit the Tab key.  After that, it's all automated.  Your aircraft would be pitched off the catapult at 100m/s and your throttle would be set to 100pct.  You just have to keep from going in the drink.

[Fengist]

Ok, pivoting catapult 2 now in extended testing and it worked like I imagined it in the previous post (a rarity).  It's going to be a bit large for Clipper sized ships tho. Mounted sideways with a counterweight or some bitts filled with compressed water it'll consume a little less space but hey, we're talking about launching an jet off of a boat that's less than 5 meters wide.

Basic theory is thus:

It will use a specialized female docking port on one end of the catapult.  The aircraft will have a matching male docking port (shuttle) underneath in a surface mount part (it's the white block in the pictures but I'll make it animated and retractable).  Basically, you retract your gear, engines on, throttle to 0.  Right click the catapult and undock.  Now here's where it gets a bit tricky. The catapult is concave, the shuttle is convex.  Once you undock, provided you don't wiggle around much and you have the shuttle directly under the center of the aircraft mass, the catapult should keep the aircraft mostly steady until the physics engine realizes I'm cheating.  It's can get a little wobbly if take your time launching.  Once you're ready, press the tab key and hang on. You're going for a ride. The catapult will even max our your throttle for you.

Now, can you recover and reload?  It's a docking port. It depends on your skills with a crane I'd suppose. I'll put some settings in the cfg so you can play with that possibility but I'm not going out of my way to guarantee it.

Just a note, that aircraft is just under 12 tons. The catapult took it from 0 to 82 m/s within the length of the cat. Jeb was impressed.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Fengist

[Fengist]

On 6/29/2016 at 0:56 PM, LabRats said:

If anyone remembers, I could use the help. All my other mods are animating correctly. Ill try reinstalling the mod.

Love the mod.

Does that plugin/mod with the animated spotlight that tracks your cursor or target still work. It had a walking spider like thing too. I can't remember the mod's name. It would be cool if that mod's functionality could be added to the spotlights in this mod. Either way, I love it and look forward to what the future holds.

I just remembered.  My problem was I kept running out of electricity.

[Fengist]

0.1.7 released.  Tug Boats ahoy! Now available from CurseForge via the download button on the OP.

"Fairs winds and following seas" - Fengist

[adsii1970]

@Fengist: Is the catapult scalable? Can I tweakscale it? Also, any chance your flood light for the ships is going to get a make-over? It looks quite rough...

Edited July 8, 2016 by adsii1970

[Fengist]

Well, there will be 2 catapults.

C1 - You can embed in a flight deck so that it's flush mounted.
C2 - The one above.

Here's the problem if I turn tweak on.  In order to keep people from using a catapult that's 2km away (someone will, I know) I've had to add in a range restriction.  The plugin will look at the catapult's center and as long as your aircraft is within x range, it'll allow you to launch (and right now, it doesn't even care if you're sideways to the cat).  Once it launches, it checks 50 times a second, the distance away the aircraft is, the aircraft speed and the number of 'pushes' it's made.  If any one of those exceeds a set value, it stops pushing.

Now, I know everyone likes tweak but I honestly haven't messed with it beyond just resizing parts.  If the catapult gets scaled up the distance check would also have to change based on how large you make it.  Now I'm not sure if tweak can change .cfg variables.  At the least, it would mean adding that distance variable into the config.  Plus, some size restrictions would have to be added.  Right now, the C2 is about as small as I can make it and still have room to get the aircraft aloft.  Keep in mind, that 'shuttle' part you see on the bottom of the aircraft is scraping against the catapult the whole time it's being pushed.  Longer may = explosions from parts colliding.

And hey, what's wrong with my lil light?  That's art deco dood.  And it was more or less designed to fit on the underside of submarines.  I never intended it for shipboard use (but I use them there too).  Make you a deal.  If Squad updates their hideous flood light, I will too. (hold your breath!)

And for those that read this thread and help keep it active by posting, probably next week, I'm going to try to release an alpha of the C2.  It will only be the one part and the plugin and it will only be available for download on the post where I link it.  It won't even be in the OP.  So, keep watch and when I think I've got something usable, I'll put it up for you guys to beat about.

[adsii1970]

@Fengist: I just downloaded the latest Maritime Pack... and the catapults are not there (I am going to grumble because I had to delete all the paddle boat stuff - again)... Anyway, the Firespitter you're using may not be the most up to date version according to AVC.

[Fengist]

@adsii1970 Ummm no. I said the catapult would be a separate alpha test.  And why did you have to delete the paddle stuff???

I just downloaded that one a few weeks ago, didn't think to check if there was a new one already.  That one works with the pack tho.

[adsii1970]

@Fengist: I never use the paddle boat stuff; never have. I also delete the bomber and other craft from the Firespitter mod, too. I have an older machine with a slower processor and have become quite able at removing the excesses from the mods where I do not use every part of the mod. There are a few others that I have done this with. I wish I had a machine that could keep up... really, I do...

[Fengist]

6 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

@Fengist: I never use the paddle boat stuff; never have. I also delete the bomber and other craft from the Firespitter mod, too. I have an older machine with a slower processor and have become quite able at removing the excesses from the mods where I do not use every part of the mod. There are a few others that I have done this with. I wish I had a machine that could keep up... really, I do...

I feel your pain. I started modding on a 10 year old AMD quad core with 8 gigs of ram and 32 bit Windoze... it was horrid.  I finally broke down and spent the money for a new machine.  And people like you are why I try to keep all the parts in distinct directories.  They can easily delete specific types of ships they don't want, like the paddle.  One of the things I hated on my old machine was downloading a monstrous pack like B9 and having a gazillion parts I didn't want or need.

-----------------------

While I'm here...

My assumption earlier today that I would get the cat out for alpha this coming week may have been a tad premature.  I got a phone call today and for the next 3-6 weeks I'll be working from 5 a.m. till dark, 7 days a week.  I suspect my desire to 'think' will be very limited for the coming weeks.  I will ATTEMPT to get the cat out this weekend for testing so that you guys will have it for probably a month in advance of it being added to the pack.  No promises tho.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Fengist