Making planets with Kopernicus: video guides

[BashGordon33]

3 hours ago, Kepler68 said:

What do you mean by horrible and glitchy? What looks different?

Spoiler

Looks like a badly cooked potato

Light side not aligned with sun, works on the surface.

Terrain looks nothing like normal, also that square in the top left corner

Close up of horrible landscape

Yeah, I have no idea what went wrong.

Edited August 22, 2016 by BashGordon33

[The White Guardian]

On 22-8-2016 at 10:50 AM, BashGordon33 said:

  Hide contents

Looks like a badly cooked potato

Light side not aligned with sun, works on the surface.

Terrain looks nothing like normal, also that square in the top left corner

Close up of horrible landscape

Yeah, I have no idea what went wrong.

I think you've got a low resolution texture, could you specify the resolution you used?

The glitchy chunk has to do with a lack of PQS I suppose, for that I need to see the config.

And the lighting issue, that happens when you randomly grab a texture from SE. KSP requires a special configuration, send me the normal map and I'll convert it for you.

The bad texture on the surface, I have no idea what that could be. I have a gut feeling that it's the scaledspace you're seeing which means a big issue with your planet. Again, may I see the config?

Edited August 23, 2016 by The White Guardian

[BashGordon33]

17 hours ago, The White Guardian said:

I think you've got a low resolution texture, could you specify the resolution you used?

The glitchy chunk has to do with a lack of PQS I suppose, for that I need to see the config.

And the lighting issue, that happens when you randomly grab a texture from SE. KSP requires a special configuration, send me the normal map and I'll convert it for you.

The bad texture on the surface, I have no idea what that could be. I have a gut feeling that it's the scaledspace you're seeing which means a big issue with your planet. Again, may I see the config?

I was talking to another guy and he said don't use space engine textures. How am I supposed to create a planet without them? Where do the actually good planet makers get their textures from?

And here's the config. 

Spoiler

@Kopernicus:AFTER[Kopernicus]
{
    Body
    {
        name= Test
        cacheFile = Nirgends/Cache/Test.bin
        Template
        {
            name = Ike
            removeAllPQSMods = true
        }
        Properties
        {
            description = Test is a planet
            radius = 300000
            tidallyLocked = true
            geeASL = 0.3
            isHomeWorld = false
            timewarpAltitudeLimits = 0 5000 10000 20000 40000 80000 150000 
            ScienceValues
            {
                landedDataValue = 1
                inSpaceLowDataValue = 1
                inSpaceHighDataValue = 1
                recoveryValue = 1
                spaceAltitudeThreshold = 200000
            }
        }
        ScaledVersion
        {
            type = Vacuum
            Material
            {
                texture = Nirgends/PluginData/Test_color.png
                normals = Nirgends/PluginData/Test_normal.png
            }
        }
        Orbit
        {
            referenceBody = Nirgends
            semiMajorAxis = 10000000
            inclination = 0
            eccentricity = 0.001
            longitudeOfAscendingNode = 0
            argumentOfPeriapsis = 0
            meanAnomalyAtEpoch = 0
            epoch = 0
            color = 0.5,0.5,0.5,1.0
        }
        PQS
        {
            Mods
            {
                VertexHeightMap
                {
                    map = Nirgends/PluginData/Test_height.png
                    deformity = 4000
                    scaleDeformityByRadius = false
                    offset = 0
                    enabled = true
                    order = 10
                )
                VertexHeightNoise
                {
                    noiseType = RiggedMultifractal
                    deformity = 3000
                    frequency = 6
                    persistence = 0.2
                    lacunarity = 2.5
                    octaves = 7
                    mode = Low
                    seed = 23690
                    enabled = true
                    order = 15
                }
                    
            }
        }
    }
}
 

 

[The White Guardian]

On 24-8-2016 at 9:35 AM, BashGordon33 said:

I was talking to another guy and he said don't use space engine textures. How am I supposed to create a planet without them? Where do the actually good planet makers get their textures from?

And here's the config. 

  Reveal hidden contents

@Kopernicus:AFTER[Kopernicus]
{
    Body
    {
        name= Test
        cacheFile = Nirgends/Cache/Test.bin
        Template
        {
            name = Ike
            removeAllPQSMods = true
        }
        Properties
        {
            description = Test is a planet
            radius = 300000
            tidallyLocked = true
            geeASL = 0.3
            isHomeWorld = false
            timewarpAltitudeLimits = 0 5000 10000 20000 40000 80000 150000 
            ScienceValues
            {
                landedDataValue = 1
                inSpaceLowDataValue = 1
                inSpaceHighDataValue = 1
                recoveryValue = 1
                spaceAltitudeThreshold = 200000
            }
        }
        ScaledVersion
        {
            type = Vacuum
            Material
            {
                texture = Nirgends/PluginData/Test_color.png
                normals = Nirgends/PluginData/Test_normal.png
            }
        }
        Orbit
        {
            referenceBody = Nirgends
            semiMajorAxis = 10000000
            inclination = 0
            eccentricity = 0.001
            longitudeOfAscendingNode = 0
            argumentOfPeriapsis = 0
            meanAnomalyAtEpoch = 0
            epoch = 0
            color = 0.5,0.5,0.5,1.0
        }
        PQS
        {
            Mods
            {
                VertexHeightMap
                {
                    map = Nirgends/PluginData/Test_height.png
                    deformity = 4000
                    scaleDeformityByRadius = false
                    offset = 0
                    enabled = true
                    order = 10
                )
                VertexHeightNoise
                {
                    noiseType = RiggedMultifractal
                    deformity = 3000
                    frequency = 6
                    persistence = 0.2
                    lacunarity = 2.5
                    octaves = 7
                    mode = Low
                    seed = 23690
                    enabled = true
                    order = 15
                }
                    
            }
        }
    }
}
 

 

You can make a planet without textures. See my Advanced Kopernicus guide, you can use PQSMods only. VertexPlanet and LandControl are miracles. You can edit your planet in-game with Kittopia and export the planet when you're happy with it so you can update the scaledspace.

The glitched chunk is indeed a lack of PQS, you give no color to the terrain. If you already have a map, use VertexColorMap. The mod is easy to write, just 'map =' like VertexHeightMap, followed by enable and order. Try adding that and see what happens.

Edited August 25, 2016 by The White Guardian

[BashGordon33]

17 hours ago, The White Guardian said:

You can make a planet without textures. See my Advanced Kopernicus guide, you can use PQSMods only. VertexPlanet and LandControl are miracles. You can edit your planet in-game with Kittopia and export the planet when you're happy with it so you can update the scaledspace.

The glitched chunk is indeed a lack of PQS, you give no color to the terrain. If you already have a map, use VertexColorMap. The mod is easy to write, just 'map =' like VertexHeightMap, followed by enable and order. Try adding that and see what happens.

Thank you so much, turns out that was the problem. And I don't exactly have a permanent normal map, I'm just experimenting with different colours and textures. And I don't really think the type of planet I'm making would work with just altitude colouring. I've heard that Space engine textured directly are terrible for planets, so how would I convert them into textures KSP can use? How do good planet creators such as yourself get your textures? 

[The White Guardian]

On 26-8-2016 at 9:45 AM, BashGordon33 said:

Thank you so much, turns out that was the problem. And I don't exactly have a permanent normal map, I'm just experimenting with different colours and textures. And I don't really think the type of planet I'm making would work with just altitude colouring. I've heard that Space engine textured directly are terrible for planets, so how would I convert them into textures KSP can use? How do good planet creators such as yourself get your textures? 

I just told you dude: packs such as my own or @KillAshley's Uncharted Lands are built without external textures. The trick is to do the following:

1. When makign your planet, dont add the scaledversion. Since the ScaledVersion is only a placeholder mesh for scaledspace, it does not interact with the actual surface of your planet.

2. Build a planet without using VertexHeightMap and/or VertexColorMap, use non-map PQSMods instead, such as VertexSimplexHeight, VertexHeightNoise and HeightColorMap. Or you can do it all at once and use VertexPlanet. Minmus, for example, is made entirely with VertexPlanet, it only uses LandControl for the terrain scatter.

3. Load your config, open the game, hyperedit a craft to an orbit around your planet that is low enough to see the actual surface rather than the scaledspace, open up Kittopia and start editing.

4. Still ignoring scaledspace, let Kittopia save the config of your edited planet. Find and open the exported config, DO NOT DELETE YOUR OWN CONFIG AND REPLACE IT WITH KITTOPIA'S. Sorry for the caps, but it's very important considering Kittopia's config doesn't work. What you need to do instead is copy the changes into your own config. Keep in mind though that Kittopia won't export the Noise wrapper of VertexPlanet (see the example code in the Kopernicus Examples to see what noise wrapper I mean), so you shouldn't delete it in your own config considering VertexPlanet needs it.

5. When the changes have been applied to the config you made, not Kittopia, open up KSP if you've closed it, open Kittopia and select your planet, and then the magic of Kittopia kicks in. You see, editing planets in-game is already pretty nice, but Kittopia also adds the ability to export your planet's textures. When you've exported the textures, delete the heightmap. Okay, you don't have to delete it, but don't alter your config to use VertexHeightMap with this exported heightmap because it's a waste of memory, you've just made a procedural planet. You can take the color and normal map and use those to, yes indeed, update the scaledspace, and presto!

I've written a guide on this, too:

 

[BashGordon33]

Spoiler

14 hours ago, The White Guardian said:

I just told you dude: packs such as my own or @KillAshley's Uncharted Lands are built without external textures. The trick is to do the following:

1. When makign your planet, dont add the scaledversion. Since the ScaledVersion is only a placeholder mesh for scaledspace, it does not interact with the actual surface of your planet.

2. Build a planet without using VertexHeightMap and/or VertexColorMap, use non-map PQSMods instead, such as VertexSimplexHeight, VertexHeightNoise and HeightColorMap. Or you can do it all at once and use VertexPlanet. Minmus, for example, is made entirely with VertexPlanet, it only uses LandControl for the terrain scatter.

3. Load your config, open the game, hyperedit a craft to an orbit around your planet that is low enough to see the actual surface rather than the scaledspace, open up Kittopia and start editing.

4. Still ignoring scaledspace, let Kittopia save the config of your edited planet. Find and open the exported config, DO NOT DELETE YOUR OWN CONFIG AND REPLACE IT WITH KITTOPIA'S. Sorry for the caps, but it's very important considering Kittopia's config doesn't work. What you need to do instead is copy the changes into your own config. Keep in mind though that Kittopia won't export the Noise wrapper of VertexPlanet (see the example code in the Kopernicus Examples to see what noise wrapper I mean), so you shouldn't delete it in your own config considering VertexPlanet needs it.

5. When the changes have been applied to the config you made, not Kittopia, open up KSP if you've closed it, open Kittopia and select your planet, and then the magic of Kittopia kicks in. You see, editing planets in-game is already pretty nice, but Kittopia also adds the ability to export your planet's textures. When you've exported the textures, delete the heightmap. Okay, you don't have to delete it, but don't alter your config to use VertexHeightMap with this exported heightmap because it's a waste of memory, you've just made a procedural planet. You can take the color and normal map and use those to, yes indeed, update the scaledspace, and presto!

I've written a guide on this, too:

 

 

Oh alright then, so you use Kittopia to create a planet texture? I thought you meant just colouring the planet based on height. Thank you for clearing that up. I'll go and try to do that to my planets now. Thanks, now I can finally make good planets! 

[OhioBob]

@The White Guardian, I'm working on a planet mod and I'm trying get the sky/atmosphere to look correct.  There are several settings that I really don't what they do.  I've got a general understanding of it but, when I try adjusting the numbers, I just can't see exactly what they do.  The items I'm having trouble with are listed below, can you provide an explanation?  The waveLength setting clearly sets the color of the sky, so what does lightColor do?

		Atmosphere
		{
			lightColor = 
			AtmosphereFromGround
			{
				innerRadius = 
				outerRadius = 
				waveLength = 
			}
		}
		ScaledVersion
		{
			fadeStart = 
			fadeEnd = 
		}

 

[msnbcorp]

Hi, i need help for multiple inclusion mods.

As a lot of mods patch Kopernicus files, How to define a multiple "AFTER" keyword for cfg file of a mods ?

 

Exemple :
First mods :

Quote

@Kopernicus:After[Kopernicus]
{
    @Body[Sun]
    {
        @ScaledVersion
        {
            Light
            {
                sunlightColor = 1, 1, 1, 1
                sunlightIntensity = 0.75
                sunlightShadowStrength = 0.95
                scaledSunlightColor = 1, 1, 1, 1
                scaledSunlightIntensity = 0.75
                IVASunColor = 1, 1, 1, 1
                IVASunIntensity = 0.75
                sunLensFlareColor = 0, 0, 0, 0
                ambientLightColor = 0, 0, 0, 1
                sunAU = 1496000000
            }

}

 

 

Second mods

Quote

@Kopernicus:AFTER[Kopernicus]
{
    @Body[Sun]
    {
        @ScaledVersion
        {
            Light
            {
                sunlightIntensity = 1.5
                scaledSunlightIntensity = 1.5
                IVASunIntensity = 1.5
                ambientLightColor = 0,0,0,1.0
            }
        }
    }
}

 

I want the second mods loaded after the first one. But the first one is not a need of the second mod so AFTER[Second mods] alone is not an option.

I tried  :AFTER[Kopernicus]:AFTER[Second mods] but it just don't work.

 

Any idea to fix it ?

 

 

 

[The White Guardian]

26 minutes ago, msnbcorp said:

Hi, i need help for multiple inclusion mods.

As a lot of mods patch Kopernicus files, How to define a multiple "AFTER" keyword for cfg file of a mods ?

 

Exemple :
First mods :

 

Second mods

 

I want the second mods loaded after the first one. But the first one is not a need of the second mod so AFTER[Second mods] alone is not an option.

I tried  :AFTER[Kopernicus]:AFTER[Second mods] but it just don't work.

 

Any idea to fix it ?

 

 

 

First mod: @Kopernicus:FOR[MODNAME]

Instead of MODNAME, just write any name. With FOR you create, well, basically a 'folder' (not an actual folder, I'm just trying to explain it as best as I can). Every config with the same FOR[] entry is added to this folder, and they are loaded at once.

Next, you can write @Kopernicus:AFTER[MODNAME]

[msnbcorp]

Hum but basically this solution need to modified a lot of independant mods. Is there any clean solution to only modifie mod 2 ?

I find the keyword "final" but it's not clean in a mod. Also i find that the only solution could be the alphabetical order of the plugin ... which is sad ....

[sarbian]

I don't understand why it would require alphabetical  order. If the second mod is made to go after the first one then it should already include an AFTER[first] so you can just do a AFTER[second]. I they don't then that is the problem and MM is not meant to fix bad practice.

[The White Guardian]

@sarbian @msnbcorp Okay, I've lost track of what's happening.

Let me just explain it one last time: there's no need for alphabetical order. Just write:

@Kopernicus:FOR[First] for the first mod

@Kopernicus:FOR[Second]:AFTER[First]

@Kopernicus:FOR[Third]:AFTER[Second]

And so forth. That should do the trick.

FOR: gives a config a specific 'tag', you can then use AFTER in another config to make mods load after this specific tag. Easy peasy, no changes for ModuleManager required.

[msnbcorp]

10 hours ago, sarbian said:

I don't understand why it would require alphabetical  order. If the second mod is made to go after the first one then it should already include an AFTER[first] so you can just do a AFTER[second]. I they don't then that is the problem and MM is not meant to fix bad practice.

It's not bad practice, it's plugin practice.

Some mods work like First->Second->Third.  In that case there is absolutly no problem, MM was made to do this.

Some other mods (FAR, texture replacer, Kpernicus etc...) the major one works as base for other mods. This give a star patern.

Other1 <- First -> Other2

 

(representation whith only 2 but it could be 50)

In a star pattern of plugin you can absolutly have a mods wo plug the entire solar system, for exemple, and an other which tune the sun only. And the fact that you want the second one active is not a bad practice ^^. The fact that the second one HAVE to work without the first one have also to be keepen. It's how plugins work.

 

In that case, whith other software, the good practice is known, but MM doesn't seems to have it.

The good practice is to have a complex manager that understand a mods which says : " On that point i want to be the last one", "On that other i want just to be after this one and this one". Of course it leads to conflict and the complex MM should warn the player about that. But it is clearly the good solution.

 

The solution of MM with a linear search of each FOR, each BEFORE, each AFTER etc... is just the simplier one, not very clean. Some expert of MM have run into the problem and suggest only alphabetical order to contourn it and make an artificial order it's clearly not a clean one. It's an important missing feature of MM.

 

 

[sarbian]

10 minutes ago, msnbcorp said:

In that case, whith other software, the good practice is known, but MM doesn't seems to have it.

I am waiting for your code submission. 

[msnbcorp]

4 hours ago, The White Guardian said:

@sarbian @msnbcorp Okay, I've lost track of what's happening.

Let me just explain it one last time: there's no need for alphabetical order. Just write:

@Kopernicus:FOR[First] for the first mod

@Kopernicus:FOR[Second]:AFTER[First]

@Kopernicus:FOR[Third]:AFTER[Second]

And so forth. That should do the trick.

FOR: gives a config a specific 'tag', you can then use AFTER in another config to make mods load after this specific tag. Easy peasy, no changes for ModuleManager required.

Of course it works but only in MY CASE because i choose to have this particular two plugins. The second and first are plugins, they are not mean to need one of them ! They only need the first one to run ! they just patch the same thing !

I should give the example because the plugins philosophy seems to be hard to understand ...

 

I have a mod name SVT, it patch kopernicus on all the solar system.

it just need Kopernicus to work ! And they should work with only kopernicus

 

I have an other mod that patch the sun (lightFixer) on only one or two parameter. It also should work with Kopernicus only. These two mods are in conflict.

 

The second one don't have to depend of the first one (!) .

 

The theorically good solution in this thing are :

 

First one -> no change

 

Second one -> a routine that say [IF FIRST ONE DETECTED, THEN LOAD ONLY AFTER THE FIRST ONE] or [EXECUTE ME AS A FINAL PATCH EVERY TIME] or [EXECUTE AFTER {list of mods}]

 

As AFTER don't "need" the mods to be loaded i guess, the third solution should work too.

 

Well, the point it, nether of this solution are easily makable with MM. The first solution is generally, as i can tell, implemented when needed directly in the code of the plugin by conceptors, which is a bit ugly. And in the main case it's just not implemented and a potential wrong order of loading is juste let as it is.

The second solution can be done with the keywork FINAL but it's prohibited by the communauty because every single patch want to be FINAL and there is no warning of MM about this... so alphabetical order win again ...

The third one should work with a clever, not linear, manager... iot's generally the solution used in other software, combined with warning message. buuuut.... it's just not implemented...

 

So alphabetical order win again ...

 

 

7 minutes ago, sarbian said:

I am waiting for your code submission. 

Hum it could be done .... it's a classical sort algorithm, nothing difficult. The difficult part is to warn the player properly and to detect imcompatibility ^^. But it could be done, it's a classical subject on the net the multiple AFTER BEFORE problem. I will look at the code next week. 

Edited November 2, 2016 by msnbcorp

[The White Guardian]

40 minutes ago, msnbcorp said:

I have a mod name SVT, it patch kopernicus on all the solar system.

it just need Kopernicus to work ! And they should work with only kopernicus

 

I have an other mod that patch the sun (lightFixer) on only one or two parameter. It also should work with Kopernicus only. These two mods are in conflict.

 

The second one don't have to depend of the first one (!) .

 

The theorically good solution in this thing are :

 

First one -> no change

 

Second one -> a routine that say [IF FIRST ONE DETECTED, THEN LOAD ONLY AFTER THE FIRST ONE] or [EXECUTE ME AS A FINAL PATCH EVERY TIME] or [EXECUTE AFTER {list of mods}]

In SVE configs: @Kopernicus:FOR[SVE]

In the sunlight mod(Copy the config once)

Config 1: @Kopernicus:NEEDS[!SVE]

Config 2: @Kopernicus:NEEDS[SVE]:AFTER[SVE]

Config 1 will only load if the SVE tag is NOT detected. Config 2 will only load if the SVE tag is detected and, if so, loads after the SVE tag.

Give it a try, it should work. Then again, I'm typing this late in the evening...

[msnbcorp]

OK, thanks for the answer, it sees to be valid but with multiple mods it could give a lot of copy-past for each cfg... I will try but i think i will try to see the code of MM for better solutions with multiple AFTER/BEFORE.

[The White Guardian]

4 minutes ago, msnbcorp said:

OK, thanks for the answer, it sees to be valid but with multiple mods it could give a lot of copy-past for each cfg... I will try but i think i will try to see the code of MM for better solutions with multiple AFTER/BEFORE.

Another possibility: in the star mod config, change it to: @Kopernicus:FINAL

This ensures it is among the last batch of configs Kopernicus loads (with batch I mean every mod that is also 'FINAL')

(Why didn't I think of this before! )

Edited November 2, 2016 by The White Guardian

[msnbcorp]

Yeah but in my message i analyse this possibility. It's a functionnal one but the communauty has choose to NOT use the FINAL keyword in mod config. Because it work and appear to be a good solution for one patch, but others will use it and very soon every body want to be the last and use FINAL. At the end, the alphabetical order win between all the final XD. It appears already in certain mods so it is categorized as a very bad practice. It must stay a keyword only used by final user.

[SAS123]

Time to Relearn how to make planets again XD

 

[SAS123]

@The White Guardian I have a statement and about 5 questions to ask you XD

You know how a while back I was going to be a critic on your videos? We'll that day has arrived. To relearn how to make planets (Procedural I think I remember It's using Kittopia to get the textures and stuff) I watched your videos and wrote all the code down in 3 simple files. So here is what I rate them from 0 - 10:
Video 1: 9/10
Video 2: 9/10
Video 3: 8.5/10

Question 1: What does adding a normal texture do to a gas giant? Does it give like separate layered clouds or something?

Question 2: When is the Tips and Tricks Video going to be released if you are still going to make one?

Question 3: How would you recommend to make a custom texture for a solid planet in like GIMP? For instance, OPM and New Horizons Planets look very nice and seem to have well-done custom textures.

Question 4: Are you Worthy Enough to lift Thor's Hammer?

Question 5: Why is a Template-less Planet so Hard to build?

[The White Guardian]

3 hours ago, SAS123 said:

@The White Guardian I have a statement and about 5 questions to ask you XD

You know how a while back I was going to be a critic on your videos? We'll that day has arrived. To relearn how to make planets (Procedural I think I remember It's using Kittopia to get the textures and stuff) I watched your videos and wrote all the code down in 3 simple files. So here is what I rate them from 0 - 10:
Video 1: 9/10
Video 2: 9/10
Video 3: 8.5/10

Question 1: What does adding a normal texture do to a gas giant? Does it give like separate layered clouds or something?

Question 2: When is the Tips and Tricks Video going to be released if you are still going to make one?

Question 3: How would you recommend to make a custom texture for a solid planet in like GIMP? For instance, OPM and New Horizons Planets look very nice and seem to have well-done custom textures.

Question 4: Are you Worthy Enough to lift Thor's Hammer?

Question 5: Why is a Template-less Planet so Hard to build?

Question 1: it adds a little 'noise' to the texture, a nice 3D effect. I recommend taking a good look at Jool when the game is set to a high texture quality. The colormap only gives a flat, colored sphere, but the texture cloud_normal, which is applied to Jool, adds the 3D effect.

Question 2: I really haven't made a video in a while, have I? I should get back to that...

Question 3: Making a planet map's left and right sides line up is an easy task, but the problem is making the poles blur in a correct way. I believe @KillAshley told me that the polar coordinates plugin could do this, but I have not yet been able to get a good result. Strangely enough whenever I try it the top and bottom halves of my planet will become identical.

Question 4: *lifts Thor's hammer*

Question 5: Becuase you need to specify EVERYTHING. All physical properties, all orbit properties, PQSMaterials, PQSMods, PhysicsMaterials, it's an awful lot of work and if just one value is set incorrectly it'll all go straight to hell. Trust me, I'm trying to get a template-less planet to work myself and even I can't get it to load, why I do not know. And add to that that it's not any better than a template-planet, only a lot longer and more complicated.

[SAS123]

Question 6: Is there a way to use a normal map or height map instead of procedural but generate a procedural colour texture map using the normal or height map?

[Solar Ranger]

If I create a planet texture using PQS mods would it be the same on every save or would it be different. Also is there a specific PQS mod to add craters or would that require a height map?