[Minimum KSP version - 1.11] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.12

[cyberKerb]

Hi @IgorZ

Being in a Kerbal mood for some construction using KIS/KAS, I tried to build a ladder against the VAB wall to climb to the roof using CB1 slabs attached to the wall (tried both wrench and drill), I then attached ladders from slab to slab vertically. It works while my Kerbal is in range, but it fails more often then not.

Is this stupidly kerbal of an idea doomed to failure with physics kicking my slabs off the wall most time it reloads? (it's not always, but very nearly most of the time.)
I tried to change the CB1 cfg file by modifying the property 'staticAttachBreakForce' to 1000, but it didn't have the effect I was hoping for.

P.S.: I realize I'm probably not using my tools for their intended purpose, but I thought it worth checking for community ideas as I need a method to climb up vertical surfaces (about 15-20 ladders tall) while carrying a SC62 with stuff and thought this method might be fun. 

Edited September 24, 2017 by wile1411

[Tarheel1999]

Why not just use xl structural girders instead?  That way the first one can be attached to the ground and you can use ladders to build up as you go. 

[cyberKerb]

8 hours ago, Tarheel1999 said:

Why not just use xl structural girders instead?  That way the first one can be attached to the ground and you can use ladders to build up as you go. 

Unfortunately I don't have girders in my tech level yet - still at the 90sci column. Ijust checked the CTT node where the beams are (composites) and I'm a fair way from those with 50% science returns. (160sci  for specalized construction + 300 for the composites node) *sigh*  Good idea though. Might do a quick run to the Mun for what I need, but I'm heavily restricted on funds at the moment, so I'll need to wait until I upgrade the R&D building first.

Could it be that I'm screwing myself by letting the a ladder collide with the CB1 above it  i.e. the one it's not collected to, and with it loads, this collision is causing stuff to get ripped from the wall?

 

Edited September 22, 2017 by wile1411

[IgorZ]

On 9/21/2017 at 8:21 AM, wile1411 said:

Hi @IgorZ

Being in a Kerbal mood for some construction using KIS/KAS, I tried to build a ladder against the VAB wall to climb to the roof using CB1 slabs attached to the wall (tried both wrench and drill), I then attached ladders from slab to slab vertically. It works while my Kerbal is in range, but it fails more often then not.

Is this stupidly kerbal of an idea doomed to failure with physics kicking my slabs off the wall most time it reloads? (it's not always, but very nearly most of the time.)
I tried to change the CB1 cfg file by modifying the property 'staticAttachBreakForce' to 1000, but it didn't have the effect I was hoping for.

P.S.: I realize I'm probably not using my tools for their intended purpose, but I thought it worth checking for community ideas as I need a method to climb up vertical surfaces (about 15-20 ladders tall) while carrying a SC62 with stuff and thought this method might be fun. 

I like your idea to do... errr, a crazzy stuff   I remember myself jerking around in the space center. However, I never tried to attach KIS parts to the buildings. I'll be honest with you, it was never tested! How does it work when you reload the game? I may guess that the destructive events happens due to the ladder colliders behavior.

[cyberKerb]

11 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

I like your idea to do... errr, a crazzy stuff   I remember myself jerking around in the space center. However, I never tried to attach KIS parts to the buildings. I'll be honest with you, it was never tested! How does it work when you reload the game? I may guess that the destructive events happens due to the ladder colliders behavior.

Thanks! I found tht they were staying on the wall occasionally. But the majority of time, it would fall/fling from the wall when it loaded. I was wondering would that be a game effect, or would it be more likely that I had a ladder colliding with a slab? Wht are your thoughts on that idea? I wonder if I can get it to stay on the wall, provided I can ensure the ladders dont clip through another piece further up? The game reall does't like two different vessels being clipped into each other and I suspect this is my issue. 

Just wanted to see if you could think of any other qwirks of KAS that might cause this?

[IgorZ]

1 minute ago, wile1411 said:

The game reall does't like two different vessels being clipped into each other and I suspect this is my issue. 

That's true. The parts that belong to the same vessel never trigger bad effects even if they collide. But any two parts of two different vessels will trigger the physical effects when collided, you cannot avoid it.

3 minutes ago, wile1411 said:

Just wanted to see if you could think of any other qwirks of KAS that might cause this?

KIS is very straightforward when attaching the things to a surface: it uses the fixed coordinates. Most of the time it works fine, but who knows how the buildings are different from the surface? What I learned, is that even if you stay on the launch pad and do nothing, your world coordinates are actually changing. It's probably because of the Kerbin rotation, but I'd not bet on it. Ty attaching only the CB1 parts, and see if troubles come.

[cyberKerb]

will do, I give it a go next week and see it I can get my ladder

[IgorZ]

Just now, wile1411 said:

will do, I give it a go next week and see it I can get my ladder

If you make a video and share it with us, it would be just perfect  And helpful in the troubleshooting.

[cyberKerb]

1 hour ago, IgorZ said:

If you make a video and share it with us, it would be just perfect  And helpful in the troubleshooting.

Haven't a clue about video recording other than getting YouTube to record my desktop.

 Guess that'll have to do . I know I should be able to get to the top of the VAB, but the main test is if it survives a reload after going back to the Space centre. 

[IgorZ]

12 minutes ago, wile1411 said:

Haven't a clue about video recording other than getting YouTube to record my desktop.

 Guess that'll have to do . I know I should be able to get to the top of the VAB, but the main test is if it survives a reload after going back to the Space centre. 

If your operation system is Windows 10, then the video recording ability is built-in into it. Once recorded, just upload it to YouTube.

Edited September 24, 2017 by IgorZ

[plausse]

When I first used KAS I remember installing it for use as an EVA tether. I searched this thread and about a year it wasn't possible, but I'm just wondering if there is a way to do it?

[IgorZ]

On 9/26/2017 at 9:09 AM, plausse said:

When I first used KAS I remember installing it for use as an EVA tether. I searched this thread and about a year it wasn't possible, but I'm just wondering if there is a way to do it?

Nope, there is no tether part in KAS or KIS. Some people were requesting it, though.

[G'th]

1 hour ago, IgorZ said:

Nope, there is no tether part in KAS or KIS. Some people were requesting it, though.

Not entirely accurate. 

The Winches can be used as tethers, least last I tried it anyway. If you grab one of the winch ends with a kerbal, that kerbal can be dragged around by the winch as a result, and with length locks on the winch part this effectively works as a tether.

[IgorZ]

2 minutes ago, G'th said:

Not entirely accurate. 

The Winches can be used as tethers, least last I tried it anyway. If you grab one of the winch ends with a kerbal, that kerbal can be dragged around by the winch as a result, and with length locks on the winch part this effectively works as a tether.

Well, it's a different definition of the "tether" then. What I saw as a "tether request", was a way to fix the kerbal to the ladder or a part. It's a known issue of KSP that kerbals on the ladders are slowly sliding until completely left the ladder. Indeed, the winch approach can be used to not let the kerbal flying far away from the vessel, but it doesn't solve the root of the annoying issue.

[G'th]

1 hour ago, IgorZ said:

Well, it's a different definition of the "tether" then. What I saw as a "tether request", was a way to fix the kerbal to the ladder or a part. It's a known issue of KSP that kerbals on the ladders are slowly sliding until completely left the ladder. Indeed, the winch approach can be used to not let the kerbal flying far away from the vessel, but it doesn't solve the root of the annoying issue.

AH, well yeah thats a different issue altogether. Not really sure modders can really fix that. 

But in terms of tethers the use I explained works very well. 

[John Nowak]

When I think of teathers in the context of space flight, I think of a rope that attaches a space walking astronaut to the ship. One key bit is that it must guide the astronaut back to the hatch. 

I don't think anyone has ever done that, because the implausible rocket packs are so much more convenient.

[B-STRK]

4 hours ago, John Nowak said:

When I think of teathers in the context of space flight, I think of a rope that attaches a space walking astronaut to the ship. One key bit is that it must guide the astronaut back to the hatch. 

I don't think anyone has ever done that, because the implausible rocket packs are so much more convenient.

To be fair, I did, but that was with having too many kerbals on EVA, and I wanted to be sure that no one flew off too far away.

I think it might have also spammed an NRE during a maneuver with them tethered, but this was back in KSP 0.23.5 (which means the pre-KIS KAS old KAS), I should say. 

[John Nowak]

19 hours ago, B-STRK said:

To be fair, I did, but that was with having too many kerbals on EVA, 

Interesting! Could you leave on EVA, bounce on the end of the teather, and return to the vessel without using the rocket pack, the way Leonov did?

Not to get too far off topic, but it does seem the rocket pack can get a little silly. I'd prefer walking around the outside hull with magnetic boots.

[B-STRK]

38 minutes ago, John Nowak said:

Interesting! Could you leave on EVA, bounce on the end of the teather, and return to the vessel without using the rocket pack, the way Leonov did?

Not to get too far off topic, but it does seem the rocket pack can get a little silly. I'd prefer walking around the outside hull with magnetic boots.

I don't think it worked that way, nor does it still. The tether is simply the kerbal on EVA grabbing the connector, and with that function he or she can unreel and re-reel at will; I guess as long as the grabbing kerbal is the focus, winch function like fixing unreeled length is suspended, so flying away will just unreel the winch until max, which I haven't tried by the way--but again, I haven't played around with kerbals on tether since .24-.25, so my experience may be outdated.

When the winch craft is the focus however, yeah I can fix the line unreel length and tow said kerbals (or anything, actually) around (and that's one way of getting them back on board!) but that's the standard function anyway. (And that's what triggered the NRE by the way, which is why I discontinued using the winch as a kerbal tether or towline. Could have been fixed in later versions though.)

I wonder though, if the kerbal is harpooned instead? If he hasn't ragdolled from being shishkabobed, and since he hasn't technically "grabbed" the winch line, would you be able to do as tsovarisch Leonov did? 

PS: the jetpack does have its uses though. It's damn hard to walk on Minmus and Gilly without concrete weights, after all. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by B-STRK

[John Nowak]

21 hours ago, B-STRK said:

 

56 minutes ago, B-STRK said:

 the jetpack does have its uses though. It's damn hard to walk on Minmus and Gilly without concrete weights, after all. 

Wouldn't deny that. It's really good in low gravity. Still, when people fly Minmus landing missions with spare EVA fuel cans, well...

[Loren Pechtel]

26 minutes ago, John Nowak said:

Wouldn't deny that. It's really good in low gravity. Still, when people fly Minmus landing missions with spare EVA fuel cans, well...

Minmus?  I did it once with Mun!  I had a rover on the surface that needed a part.  I gave a guy the part and a bunch of fuel and kicked him out the airlock of a kerbal-rescue rocket in low orbit.  The low TWR made landing hard and it took several tries.  I finally got him down, the rover drove over to him, he fixed the rover and went back up to meet the rocket.

[John Nowak]

9 hours ago, Loren Pechtel said:

Minmus?  I did it once with Mun! 

Yeah, exactly. It's just a tad too goofy for me to really like. Still, it's kind of amusing that while something really implausible, like the rocket pack, is fairly easy to make work in the game, something more realistic and simple as a tether would be very tricky to program. I don't believe that anyone's really done a flexible rope in any game; generally you get Spider-Man's webs. 

[IgorZ]

2 minutes ago, John Nowak said:

Yeah, exactly. It's just a tad too goofy for me to really like. Still, it's kind of amusing that while something really implausible, like the rocket pack, is fairly easy to make work in the game, something more realistic and simple as a tether would be very tricky to program. I don't believe that anyone's really done a flexible rope in any game; generally you get Spider-Man's webs. 

At the current moment of the physics engines evolution, a realistic rope would take all the PC computation power to handle just a short piece  More or less close approximations are possible at the reasonable GPU/CPU costs, but a realistic behavior is not feasible.

[John Nowak]

12 hours ago, IgorZ said:

More or less close approximations are possible at the reasonable GPU/CPU costs, but a realistic behavior is not feasible.

Yeah, I didn't think so. I kinda look forward to a game that has "Tether Management" as a skill.

[gamerscircle]

Hi all -
Before I ask this question, I went back a couple pages in this forms to see about an answer and I didn't see and I know this is bad manners on my part; however either I didn't go back far enough or I am need to glasses for reading.

Currently I am moving a save from 1.3 to 1.3.1 and I don't see a KAS for 1.3.1, can I assume that I can use the 1.3 version?

thank and again, my apologies.