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[Minimum KSP version - 1.11] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.12


IgorZ

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53 minutes ago, MikeKerman said:

Is there a setting or bit of code I can change to make the docked plug mode a non-rigid connection?

In the docked mode the connection should not be rigid. You probably use some mod which increases the links strength by adding extra joints. Try testing on a pristine game with only KAS installed. If it reproduces, then it's a bug. Otherwise, it's a side effect of some mod which needs to be disabled.

1 hour ago, MikeKerman said:

Using v0.6.3. Does KAS 1.0 have this option?

KAS 1.0 doesn't support winches yet.

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It's been a long time since I used KAS, and since redownloading the other night I've been struggling to figure out how to recreate a skycrane that I'd made a few years ago. I'm going by memory but IIRC, I attached the winch cable to a decoupler in the VAB, and when I extended the cable the decoupler would go with (along with the rover that was attached to the decoupler).

I can't get this setup to work in 1.3. When I extend the cable, it clips right through everything below it. Has the winch behavior changed, or am I misremembering? I can't figure out how to make a skycrane in the VAB anymore. Anybody able to help out?

Here's a screenshot of how I was attempting to attach the skycrane to the rover (I've also tried attaching the winch cable directly to the rover, and to various other intermediary parts):

b1b86e4df0.png

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1 hour ago, blorgon said:

It's been a long time

For me as well, havent done more than removing RCS ports from new station parts in my current save.

But I seem to remember that you had to attach something to the whinch first? Some connecting part?
Or a port to connect to on what is to be whinched?

Have you tried using the magnet instead of the decoupler?

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1 hour ago, blorgon said:

It's been a long time since I used KAS, and since redownloading the other night I've been struggling to figure out how to recreate a skycrane that I'd made a few years ago. I'm going by memory but IIRC, I attached the winch cable to a decoupler in the VAB, and when I extended the cable the decoupler would go with (along with the rover that was attached to the decoupler).

I can't get this setup to work in 1.3. When I extend the cable, it clips right through everything below it. Has the winch behavior changed, or am I misremembering? I can't figure out how to make a skycrane in the VAB anymore. Anybody able to help out?

Here's a screenshot of how I was attempting to attach the skycrane to the rover (I've also tried attaching the winch cable directly to the rover, and to various other intermediary parts):

b1b86e4df0.png

In order to make it work you must attach a `CC-R2` part to the winch, and then attach the decoupler to this port. The winch head can only attach to a port (by the design), and in your craft you try attaching it directly to the decoupler. This will not work. The problem of the old KAS is that it relies on the standard attach nodes, and in the editor one may attach anything to them. However, in the flight only the right designs will work.

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10 hours ago, KerbMav said:

For me as well, havent done more than removing RCS ports from new station parts in my current save.

But I seem to remember that you had to attach something to the whinch first? Some connecting part?
Or a port to connect to on what is to be whinched?

Have you tried using the magnet instead of the decoupler?

 

10 hours ago, IgorZ said:

In order to make it work you must attach a `CC-R2` part to the winch, and then attach the decoupler to this port. The winch head can only attach to a port (by the design), and in your craft you try attaching it directly to the decoupler. This will not work. The problem of the old KAS is that it relies on the standard attach nodes, and in the editor one may attach anything to them. However, in the flight only the right designs will work.

 

Thanks guys. I'll try this out.

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On 8/4/2017 at 2:50 AM, IgorZ said:

In order to make it work you must attach a `CC-R2` part to the winch, and then attach the decoupler to this port. The winch head can only attach to a port (by the design), and in your craft you try attaching it directly to the decoupler. This will not work. The problem of the old KAS is that it relies on the standard attach nodes, and in the editor one may attach anything to them. However, in the flight only the right designs will work.

So I tried this method out, and even with a CC-R2 port attached to my rover, and the winch attached to the CC-R2, the winch still does not behave properly. Now the problem is that the cable 'extends' but doesn't actually come out of the winch. It makes the sound as if it is extending, and in the context menu it shows that the cable is getting longer, but the cable doesn't actually come out.

I also tried with the CC-R2 attached to the winch, and a decoupler attached to the CC-R2 port, and the rover attached to the decoupler. Same problem.

On the launchpad, I've tried fiddling with the winch and CC-R2's context menu actions, specifically the unplug and plugmode buttons. The game shows an error saying that there's nothing to unplug from, and that I can't change the plug mode when the winch is not connected. Something definitely seems screwy.

2b8e066b3d.png

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24 minutes ago, blorgon said:

So I tried this method out, and even with a CC-R2 port attached to my rover, and the winch attached to the CC-R2, the winch still does not behave properly. Now the problem is that the cable 'extends' but doesn't actually come out of the winch. It makes the sound as if it is extending, and in the context menu it shows that the cable is getting longer, but the cable doesn't actually come out.

I also tried with the CC-R2 attached to the winch, and a decoupler attached to the CC-R2 port, and the rover attached to the decoupler. Same problem.

On the launchpad, I've tried fiddling with the winch and CC-R2's context menu actions, specifically the unplug and plugmode buttons. The game shows an error saying that there's nothing to unplug from, and that I can't change the plug mode when the winch is not connected. Something definitely seems screwy.

2b8e066b3d.png

Do you use any mod which increases the joint strength? I'm pretty sure this time you're affected by the auto-struts. The winch can deal with the stock (in-game) auto-struts but the third-party mods usually ignore the "no struts" flag.

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11 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

Do you use any mod which increases the joint strength? I'm pretty sure this time you're affected by the auto-struts. The winch can deal with the stock (in-game) auto-struts but the third-party mods usually ignore the "no struts" flag.

I'm not sure what you mean by auto-struts (there's no fairing present, are there other parts that auto-strut that I don't know about?), but I do have KJR installed.

EDIT: just tried it after deleting KJR. Still the same issue.

Edited by blorgon
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28 minutes ago, blorgon said:

I'm not sure what you mean by auto-struts (there's no fairing present, are there other parts that auto-strut that I don't know about?), but I do have KJR installed.

EDIT: just tried it after deleting KJR. Still the same issue.

"Auto-struts" is a feature which game uses to increase stability of the structures on wheels or landing legs. In nutshell, these are invisible struts that game adds and removes behind the scene. When such strut is added between the winch and the part attached to the winch, the winch cannot work. To tell the game not to add the auto struts on winch, KAS returns a special flag to the game.

Try opening the debug window  and enabling the auto-strut visualization. If you see that orange lines on the winch, then it's something weird which need investigation (it works fine to me, as you can see on the screenshot). If the auto-struts are fine, then it's still something with your mods. Try your craft on a pristine game to verify if this is the case.

Screenshot_auto_sturts.png

 

 

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4 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

Try opening the debug window  and enabling the auto-strut visualization. If you see that orange lines on the winch, then it's something weird which need investigation (it works fine to me, as you can see on the screenshot). If the auto-struts are fine, then it's still something with your mods. Try your craft on a pristine game to verify if this is the case.

It looks like the autostruts are indeed attached to the winch.

d4fbbde465.png

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2 minutes ago, blorgon said:

It looks like the autostruts are indeed attached to the winch.

Can you simplify the craft design to just the stock parts and share it?

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9 minutes ago, blorgon said:

Craft file (still has the skycrane stuff attached): https://www.dropbox.com/s/165rr9ke9xzg3rz/skycrane for igorz.craft?dl=0

Fresh install with everything on the rover body removed but the wheels, CC-R2, and the winch:

Thanks, now I'm able to reproduce it. Created a bug. Meanwhile, you can use a workaround (see the bug).

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Very similar issue like happened to IR users. Stock wheel autostrut to either, heaviest part or grandparent part.
If heaviest part is too far away or wheels are already attached to heaviest part, stock wheel autostrut to grandparent part.

Knowing this, you can use it as exploit to prevent/workaround bug. Put some other structural part between wheels and KAS whinch part.

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I know KAS has always had issues with "mouse drones" (small often-wheeled probes attached to the main craft via winch that are designed to dock to other crafts or mouse drones), but they've gotten significantly worse lately.  I have a pair of craft on the Mun right now (a fuel barge and an ore refinery) whose mouse drones won't move.  At all.  They don't respond to any inputs when selected in undocked plug mode.  Even more unusual is that they DO work fine for about 5 minutes after being plug-undocked from their parent craft.  But then suddenly they stop responding to all WASD input after a set amount of time.  Ideas?

EDIT: Nevermind, turns out it's a quirk of the comms network.  Apparently small probes have a range of about a gnat's chuffs for antennae by default, and comms control authority is not inherited through winch connections unless in docked mode.

Edited by SkyRender
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5 hours ago, Space Scumbag said:

Is it still possible to harpoon the Kerbals? I can't get the harpoon stucked on them. It was possible in the old versions.

There are no specific restrictions to that. For the harpoon, the kerbal is just a usual "part".

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I've run into a mission problem.  I have a vessel in LKO which needs some more fuel.  Could I fly a refueling vessel up with a couple of CC-R2s, attach them with KAS and link the refueler and receiver vessels to transfer the fuel?  Or is that just asking for Kraken trouble?

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1 hour ago, Brigadier said:

I've run into a mission problem.  I have a vessel in LKO which needs some more fuel.  Could I fly a refueling vessel up with a couple of CC-R2s, attach them with KAS and link the refueler and receiver vessels to transfer the fuel?  Or is that just asking for Kraken trouble?

In my experience, trying to use pipes or that sort of connector in microgravity will lead to trouble, but alternatively you could send up the refueller with a docking port and another in storage to attach to your LKO craft. Much less likely to feel the tentacled death.

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12 hours ago, Krakatoa said:

In my experience, trying to use pipes or that sort of connector in microgravity will lead to trouble, but alternatively you could send up the refueller with a docking port and another in storage to attach to your LKO craft. Much less likely to feel the tentacled death.

I suspected as much so this sounds like a (better) plan.  Thanks.

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16 hours ago, Krakatoa said:

In my experience, trying to use pipes or that sort of connector in microgravity will lead to trouble

FWIW, I've done that a few times recently and didn't have any problems.  (The CC-R2s were already attached to both vessels in the VAB, though, so I was only linking them in orbit.)

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27 minutes ago, Wyzard said:

FWIW, I've done that a few times recently and didn't have any problems.  (The CC-R2s were already attached to both vessels in the VAB, though, so I was only linking them in orbit.)

Big bases stability on orbit is a problem regardless to using or not using KAS. Try building a large station using tiny docking ports and you'll get the same issue. The reason why people blaming KAS is that it makes it very easy to awake the Kraken. However, that monster was always there. The main contributors into the destruction forces are the reaction wheels: when spread out in a large base, they add the forces that are slightly uncoordinated, these errors add up very quickly and may result in destruction. So when connecting two heavy vessels it's better to disable SAS.

Edited by IgorZ
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14 hours ago, IgorZ said:

So when connecting two heavy vessels it's better to disable SAS.

Absolutely agree.  My pretty basic (and light) lander and command vehicles displayed a slowly building oscillation around the docking ports immediately after a gentle docking,  In my case, disabling the SAS solved it almost as fast.  I can't imagine what would happen if the parts were heavier or SASes more numerous.

Thanks for the confirmation.

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Hi guys... i have a problem...

I made a truck to start a little lab with surface experiment pack experiments near the ksc. I go to the location, get the items from the inventary, but within 5 minute since i start to build my lab, aka placing items of surface experiment pack, my stations (i have two, and the two of them crash, not one only) crash into kerbin...

then i gave up on the truck, so decided to stop the wobbling on one of my space stations with some struts. i go there, perform the eva, mount the struts. then i hear a strange noise and notice the orange tank fell apart from my station and was floating in orbit near my station.

i thought maybe i touched something, reloaded and tryied again... now everything goes well. i go back to the ksc. but when i go to the tracking station i see a space station debree... again what? O.o the orange tank fell apart again.... :|

 

here a screen of my station https://ibb.co/kjqT9v

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