IgorZ

[1.7.3] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.4 - NOT COMPATIBLE WITH KSP 1.7.0

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4 hours ago, EstebanLB said:

Suggestion, EVA Trusts and Fuel transfer should be at the same tech level as the vanilla ones, why are they higher on the tech tree?

Do you mean "CS-R2 Portable Strut"? It's in advanced construction section because it's a special design for using in space, i.e. it's an "advanced" version of regular strut. Same for "CC-R2 Connector Port". Does this explanation work? :)

 

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12 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Do you mean "CS-R2 Portable Strut"? It's in advanced construction section because it's a special design for using in space, i.e. it's an "advanced" version of regular strut. Same for "CC-R2 Connector Port". Does this explanation work? :)

Not quite, I don't see much tecnological complexity in a strut. And another thing, why is the EVA strut wayyyy stronger than the vanilla one?

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1 hour ago, EstebanLB said:

Not quite, I don't see much tecnological complexity in a strut

I do. Strut that you mount in VAB is just a piece of metal that you may cut using industrial machinery and attach having unlimited supply of consumables (e.g. screw-bolts) and tools. In space you only have a strut and a very limited set of tools. This part have to be specially designed for assembling is this highly restricting situation, it cannot be as simple as a usual strut.

BTW, this part will be deprecated in KAS 1.0. I don't think it's realistic when strut's beam of an arbitrary length just magically appears from nowhere.

2 hours ago, EstebanLB said:

And another thing, why is the EVA strut wayyyy stronger than the vanilla one?

Because of it's implemented wrong. And it's another reason to deprecated this part.

Replacement for the EVA struts will be a wire rope bracing.

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20 hours ago, IgorZ said:

I do. Strut that you mount in VAB is just a piece of metal that you may cut using industrial machinery and attach having unlimited supply of consumables (e.g. screw-bolts) and tools. In space you only have a strut and a very limited set of tools. This part have to be specially designed for assembling is this highly restricting situation, it cannot be as simple as a usual strut.

BTW, this part will be deprecated in KAS 1.0. I don't think it's realistic when strut's beam of an arbitrary length just magically appears from nowhere.

Because of it's implemented wrong. And it's another reason to deprecated this part.

Replacement for the EVA struts will be a wire rope bracing.

 

Oh, ok. That will solve a tension problem, but what about compression?

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7 hours ago, EstebanLB said:

Oh, ok. That will solve a tension problem, but what about compression?

Obviously, wire rope doesn't resist compression. So, as in a real world, to fix a part you'll have to use multiple braces. Or, you may use TJ1 or TJ2 parts that provide rigid links.

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I'm not sure if this is the right thread, but is it possible to make KAS pipes that act as structs to be purely cosmetic instead?

I like using the MKS Flex-O-Tubes (which are retextured KAS pipes using KASModuleStrut) to "close" loops in my bases, to make them look less like tree structures with seemingly huge detours. Basically like this:

screenshot57c.jpg

The green circles are KAS pipe connections that normally connect two vessels into one. The red circle is where I would close a loop.

However if I close that loop, the structure flexes a lot on physics load or after coming out of time warp and usually a connection breaks somewhere. Usually not at the red circle but between some of the other parts. It looks like closing the loop like this causes a lot of internal stress in the structure.

So would it be possible to make this connection purely cosmetic, without acting like a strut? So basically just display the pipe between the two ports, regardless of their location (within some limits maybe). So when the structure flexes on physics load, this pipe doesn't transfer any forces but remains soft?

It'd be great if this could be done with an MM patch somehow.

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14 minutes ago, jd284 said:

So would it be possible to make this connection purely cosmetic, without acting like a strut?

Nope. There is no such possibility. KAS struts are rigid joins (more rigid than it needs to be). It could be implemented in KAS 1.0 Beta once cable joint module is released (in progress as of now).

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is the tb-60 tow bar implemented in the current version of KAS? i saw it on youtube and i would like to use it for aircraft carrier operations but i cant seem to find it.

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2 hours ago, Acronza1 said:

is the tb-60 tow bar implemented in the current version of KAS? i saw it on youtube and i would like to use it for aircraft carrier operations but i cant seem to find it.

TB60 is a feature of KAS 1.0 only. Old versions of KAS won't have it.

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Guys I must be daft as I can't get basic things to happen with KAS.  First off, how do you "unlink" from a connector port if you don't want to join the other end of the link.  I needed to see how far the connector "hose/pipe" would stretch before it turned red so I linked from one port and walked till it turned red.  I then planted a flag at this point (so I know the distance) and walked back to the port I linked to.  However, there is no "unlink" option from the port so now my kerbal is stuck with a pipe attached to him.

Secondly, how do you pick up parts on the ground?  I dropped a connector port on Minimus, but I can't pick it up at all.

Surely I must be doing something wrong.

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11 hours ago, Biggen said:

Guys I must be daft as I can't get basic things to happen with KAS.  First off, how do you "unlink" from a connector port if you don't want to join the other end of the link.  I needed to see how far the connector "hose/pipe" would stretch before it turned red so I linked from one port and walked till it turned red.  I then planted a flag at this point (so I know the distance) and walked back to the port I linked to.  However, there is no "unlink" option from the port so now my kerbal is stuck with a pipe attached to him.

Secondly, how do you pick up parts on the ground?  I dropped a connector port on Minimus, but I can't pick it up at all.

Surely I must be doing something wrong.

ESC to cancel

Hold G and click and drag to grab

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11 hours ago, AliceTheGorgon said:

With KAS 1.0 being developed, I'm not sure if 0.6 issues are relevant anymore, but I figured I should post this just in case.

I'm getting a weird issue where a kerbal is attaching parts to *themself* rather than the ship. (The parts appear to attach to the ship, but then when the kerbal moves away the parts follow along with it.)
To reproduce from this save, I can just EVA the kerbal in the only ship in the save, and try to attach the lights or demolition charge to the ship.

The issue still occurs after save/load, and even restarting KSP.

KSP.log:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4ps98pMWaZnTmU2dGdnc3E5X28

quicksave.loadmeta:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4ps98pMWaZnRVNoblBoVHdIdms

quicksave.sfs:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4ps98pMWaZnT2E5eHpWdWd0QXc

Mods in this save:
ModuleManager v2.7.5
KIS v 1.4.1
KAS v0.6.2

The issue originally occurred with more mods, but it still occurs after pruning the ship down to just the basics and loading/saving in a KSP install with only these three mods.

Everything related to inventory is KIS, not KAS. Thanks for giving clear steps to reproduce, I'll try it today (tracking bug created). Also, please check if you've attached the full log. It stops at the most interesting moment, so it's impossible to say what was wrong from the logs analysis only.

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Hey, @IgorZ , I just wanted to ask, how does fuel transfer work in the latest KAS version? I connected two vessels through Connector parts on each fuel tank, but I cannot transfer fuel - alt selecting the tanks doesn't give "in" and "out" buttons for fuel. I can transfer electricity, but not fuel. "Pump here" also does nothing, on any of the connectors. There are no crossfeed valves to enable, because, as I said, connectors are attached directly to fuel tanks. So, how is it done, exactly?

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13 hours ago, aluc24 said:

Hey, @IgorZ , I just wanted to ask, how does fuel transfer work in the latest KAS version? I connected two vessels through Connector parts on each fuel tank, but I cannot transfer fuel - alt selecting the tanks doesn't give "in" and "out" buttons for fuel. I can transfer electricity, but not fuel. "Pump here" also does nothing, on any of the connectors. There are no crossfeed valves to enable, because, as I said, connectors are attached directly to fuel tanks. So, how is it done, exactly?

KSP 1.2 got an extra option: "Resource Transfer Obeys Crossfeed Rules". If it's turned ON you will not be able to transfer fuel via pre 1.0 KAS versions. I'm not going to fix it in the old versions but KAS 1.0 will address it. In fact, current beta parts allow transferring fuel. Though, in the final version it's expected that only one specific part will allow it.

6 hours ago, EstebanLB said:

@Igorz can you tell me the difference between the grapling hook and the harpoon?

They are differ by the attach/break forces only. There are no other differences. I believe it's wrong, and in KAS 1.0 it will be changed. Though, you may relay on the behavior in the pre-1.0 versions, it won't be changed.

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3 hours ago, IgorZ said:

KSP 1.2 got an extra option: "Resource Transfer Obeys Crossfeed Rules". If it's turned ON you will not be able to transfer fuel via pre 1.0 KAS versions. I'm not going to fix it in the old versions but KAS 1.0 will address it. In fact, current beta parts allow transferring fuel. Though, in the final version it's expected that only one specific part will allow it.

I actually managed to get it working finally, through switching Pump Here on the sender tank (not recipient) and then messing around with fuel tank priorities. One of the combinations finally gave me the "In" and "Out" buttons to do the fuel transfer. I have no idea what exactly I did to make it work. The Resource Transfer Obeys Crossfeed Rules is turned ON in the settings.

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@IgorZ I would assume this will be addressed in KAS 1.0 but. Has anyone noted issues with KAS parts experiencing very weak connections? My magnets will not hold anywhere near the weight they would in 1.0.5. Also it is much easier to rip a winch from it's mount with any kind of substantial weight, again much less weight required to do damage than in 1.0.5.

Actually the only way I have made a magnet hold anything was to attach it to a physics less part. And that even didn't work in all cases. I have also seen catastrophic failure in a Canadarm II style inchworm arm. Docking port and Command probe at "Base" of IR arm KAS Magnet at end makes the arm it it's own vessel on undock.

edit

Looks like just the KAS module needs some bolstering in 1.2.2. Granted these numbers are way higher than is necessary. But this fixed my issues (far as I can tell, I haven't tested everything yet)

 partBreakForce = 999
 staticBreakForce = 999

Edited by V8jester

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5 hours ago, V8jester said:

@IgorZ I would assume this will be addressed in KAS 1.0 but. Has anyone noted issues with KAS parts experiencing very weak connections? My magnets will not hold anywhere near the weight they would in 1.0.5. Also it is much easier to rip a winch from it's mount with any kind of substantial weight, again much less weight required to do damage than in 1.0.5.

Actually the only way I have made a magnet hold anything was to attach it to a physics less part. And that even didn't work in all cases. I have also seen catastrophic failure in a Canadarm II style inchworm arm. Docking port and Command probe at "Base" of IR arm KAS Magnet at end makes the arm it it's own vessel on undock.

edit

Looks like just the KAS module needs some bolstering in 1.2.2. Granted these numbers are way higher than is necessary. But this fixed my issues (far as I can tell, I haven't tested everything yet)

 partBreakForce = 999
 staticBreakForce = 999

Physics has changed significantly in 1.2+, so old KAS values don't work well anymore. I did one round of cleanup for the parts which was obviously not enough. In KAS 1.0 I design parts from scratch, so they are expected to have reasonable settings from the start.

As for ripping winch out it's another story. Winch is attached to the vessel using normal stock game joints, KAS doesn't affect these joints in any way. It's a mystery for me why they get broken. Looks like winch applies a huge spiky momentum even though there is a force easement logic implemented. It's yet to be investigated. If you have a simple purely stock savegame to replicate this issue it will be a huge help.

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19 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

Physics has changed significantly in 1.2+, so old KAS values don't work well anymore. I did one round of cleanup for the parts which was obviously not enough. In KAS 1.0 I design parts from scratch, so they are expected to have reasonable settings from the start.

As for ripping winch out it's another story. Winch is attached to the vessel using normal stock game joints, KAS doesn't affect these joints in any way. It's a mystery for me why they get broken. Looks like winch applies a huge spiky momentum even though there is a force easement logic implemented. It's yet to be investigated. If you have a simple purely stock savegame to replicate this issue it will be a huge help.

Yeah.... Over a 100+ mods :)

So I won't bother you with that nonsense. But I may just make a MM patch to just force the magnet and IR counterparts to a 999 value on aforementioned values. I'll also keep tinkering with the winch to see if I can figure that out. I ripped it out in a crane I built using a winch to support the back of the boom to the counterweight. So it was very hard to tell how much strain it was under until it just snapped. In 1.0.5 it would pull away like a rubber band quite a bit before it let go. But not anymore. Quantum struts seamed to help significantly but I have only really been tinkering with it in 1.2.2 the last day or two.

Thanks for everything you do around here Igor! Really appreciate'cha!

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For those that want to make the IR / KAS magnets, harpoons and graspers for the most part "indestructible"

Here is the MM patch I wrote for my own devious needs.

//IR - KAS Streagth Upgrade - V8Jester

//Infernal Robotics
@PART[IR_MagneticGrabber]
{
	
	@MODULE[KASModuleMagnet] 
	{
		@breakForce = 999
	}

}
@PART[IR_MechanicalGrasper]
{
	
	@MODULE[KASModuleMagnet] 
	{
		@partBreakForce = 999
		@staticBreakForce = 999	
	}

}
	
// KAS
@PART[KAS_Hook_Magnet]
{
	
	@MODULE[KASModuleMagnet] 
	{
		@partBreakForce = 999
	}
	
	@MODULE[KASModulePort]
	{
		@breakForce = 999
	}

}
	
@PART[KAS_Hook_Harpoon]
{
	
	@MODULE[KASModuleHarpoon] 
	{
		@partBreakForce = 999
		@staticBreakForce = 999
	}
	
	@MODULE[KASModulePort]
	{
		@breakForce = 999
	}

}
	
@PART[KAS_Hook_GrapplingHook]
{
	
	@MODULE[KASModuleHarpoon] 
	{
		@partBreakForce = 999
		@staticBreakForce = 999
	}
	
	@MODULE[KASModulePort]
	{
		@breakForce = 999
	}
	
}	
	
@PART[KAS_Hook_Anchor]
{
	
	@MODULE[KASModulePort]
	{
		@breakForce = 999
	}
	
}

 

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It looks like the link to here from the new KAS thread points to the old KIS thread rather than this one.  It's the one in the Recommended Mods section.

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Hello IgorZ,

Firstly I ant to say thanks for keeping KAS alive, its a fantastic mod and definitely on my "Cant play without" list.

I have, however, found a small issue. The LV-1 "Ant" Liquid Fuel Engine, isn't recognized as a radial mount part. Whenever I try to attach it using the wrench it gives me the Cannot use this node error, but in the VAB the engine can be attached any which way you want.

Not a big issue, just caught me off guard when I sent a rescue mission with some and found I couldn't attach them.

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